Personally don't think the type of bag matters, some people take their uniform to or from work in a carrier bag. If it was in there with other handover notes from babies at different times in the case then yeah really suspicious, guess it depends what else was in the bag?
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Why would she have them and kept them. Yeah I get that you could put something in your pocket by accident and go home with it, I’ve done it with registers that have been on printed paper that I’ve kept in my handbag for the day, only to find them when I get home! They go straight on the fire, you are not supposed to have them at home, but it’s so easily done when you are in a rush and forget to hand them in on the way home. But keeping a paper towel in a Morrisons bag does seem very suspicious…
Also I’ve been on the a Facebook group where so many people really don’t think she’s done this. I’m trying to keep an open mind, but the general feel is she’s a scapegoat. Now I just can’t get how you would scapegoat one nurse…also denying that the mottled appearance on the baby wasn’t caused by air embolism, now is that true did they not of prove that? Getting so confused.
Also I’ve been on the a Facebook group where so many people really don’t think she’s done this. I’m trying to keep an open mind, but the general feel is she’s a scapegoat. Now I just can’t get how you would scapegoat one nurse…also denying that the mottled appearance on the baby wasn’t caused by air embolism, now is that true did they not of prove that? Getting so confused.
And then they put it under their bed?
I'm replying as I read, so apologies if I'm repeating, but I think you're right about the Blood gases and I find her having a copy of them really disturbing as I'm not sure why you'd take it home.
When my son was in NICU end of October/beginning of November, his first day he had hourly blood gases and they were also on the receipt type of paper and the most recent one attached to his notes. I only ever saw the most recent one as they .ust have been discarded or stored in his folder with other notes when they had the new ones.
Also, on the children's ward, I remember them recording OBS on paper towels, but they would go on the computer once they'd completed all the OBS needed.
I'm not sure you can argue it was accident when they are still in her house nearly 2 years later. Sure, mistakes happen and things can get forgotten in bags, pockets etc, but wouldn't you throw it away or discard of it after finding it. Why keep it.
My partner takes his uniform to work in a carrier bag tbf. But he also takes it out to wash from the bag when he’s done with work, so would definitely see any paper work. Unlike a handbag or backpack, stuff can’t hide in a plastic bag. It seems weird to know you have the notes in the bag and just leave it under your bed.
It would be handy to know, once again, the context of what else was in the bag, rather than a spotlight on the incriminating item. Was this a bag of misplaced paperwork that was earmarked for shredding at a later date? Was it amongst old newspapers or old birthday cards? Was it a huge pile of lots of different kids records? The context is everything.
Maybe
could have been lying at the bottom of the bag and she's grabbed it to put some bits in and then it's gone under the bed for storage or whatever. Could have had a pair of shoes in there with it or it could have been full of rubbish and it's made its way under. There's any number of innocent explanations. It could also be that she'd kept it as a trophy, but it doesn't jump out at me as particularly odd on it's own.I personally can’t think of a context that would make it ok to keep these things for that length of time, under one’s bed.
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Definitely agree to disagree because there is absolutely no way that’s normal in my eyes. Particularly with these two items.Maybe
I think it very much needs context - if they only pieces of paper etc related to these specific babies, it’s very very suspicious. If however it was just a bag full of notes etc relating to a bunch of different babies, including ones who were completely fine and had no issues, then that seems to be more of a forgetful taking notes home then chucking them in a bag to dispose of later. But it is beyond coincidental if the only medical documents relate to the babies involved in this case imo
I think Letby would be clever enough to mix her little trophies in with random items to make it look seemingly normal. Rather than put them all together in a cabinet. It will have all be thought out. Calculated. Even down to the carrier bag, rather than a fancy box or basket.
Apologies, my memory is hazy, is the property she's moved into a house or an apartment? Was she living alone? Or was it a house share?
Apologies, my memory is hazy, is the property she's moved into a house or an apartment? Was she living alone? Or was it a house share?
I’m trying to think of scenarios how it ended up there.
a) she moved it to the bag when she discovered she’d accidentally picked it up, put it with other stuff for shredding. But 2 years on, seems odd she forgot. She must ocassionally vaccum under her bed and see it. If it was in a cupboard or attic, more likely to forget for sure. But under the bed… She also had a 3 bed house and it was just her (obv lots of storage space) - so I doubt she’s using her under bed area as main storage for it to be so cluttered she couldn’t see it.
b) put it in the bag right after work and dumped it under the bed to figure out later what to do - but same problem as before.
c) put it in bag at some point when she discovered it and decided to keep it as a memory or with old memorabilia. But again why under the bed when she has so much space to store it elsewhere. (This really makes me wonder what else was under her bed)
d) accidentally picked it up and didn’t realise she had it all these years. But how did it end up in the bag without her ever realising? And how did she miss it under her bed all these years?
i guess the jury has seen photos of the bag so have a better idea than we do. Pity there’s not even a description of the scene.
a) she moved it to the bag when she discovered she’d accidentally picked it up, put it with other stuff for shredding. But 2 years on, seems odd she forgot. She must ocassionally vaccum under her bed and see it. If it was in a cupboard or attic, more likely to forget for sure. But under the bed… She also had a 3 bed house and it was just her (obv lots of storage space) - so I doubt she’s using her under bed area as main storage for it to be so cluttered she couldn’t see it.
b) put it in the bag right after work and dumped it under the bed to figure out later what to do - but same problem as before.
c) put it in bag at some point when she discovered it and decided to keep it as a memory or with old memorabilia. But again why under the bed when she has so much space to store it elsewhere. (This really makes me wonder what else was under her bed)
d) accidentally picked it up and didn’t realise she had it all these years. But how did it end up in the bag without her ever realising? And how did she miss it under her bed all these years?
i guess the jury has seen photos of the bag so have a better idea than we do. Pity there’s not even a description of the scene.
I do agree to an extent but this type of document just isn’t one that should be taken home or the length of time if it’s just a bag of accidental things taken home, why not get rid of it rather than add to it. If it’s about context is it not also massively about the context that this also a well baby in a nearly 30 minute resus for which it doesn’t seem BM is going to have any alternative explanation for. And that Letby was there just before.I think it very much needs context - if they only pieces of paper etc related to these specific babies, it’s very very suspicious. If however it was just a bag full of notes etc relating to a bunch of different babies, including ones who were completely fine and had no issues, then that seems to be more of a forgetful taking notes home then chucking them in a bag to dispose of later. But it is beyond coincidental if the only medical documents relate to the babies involved in this case imo
@DellaC exactly, I’m not sure what else is there is hugely relevant. And is she not giving any kind of reason or excuse!
Possible scenario - she took her uniform to and from work in a carrier bag, had a few bits of paper in there from training or uni work (mentorship or something similar) or just an old diary or something. Uniform taken out and washed, papers left in the bag, a few other bits added in and shoved under the bed cos there were a few bits in there she knew she needed.
Probably exposing myself as a lazy sod but I couldn't tell you the last time I cleared out the file of training/uni notes I have, definitely not in the past year. Same goes for sorting the rubbish under my bed.
I still think it’s weird. I always have done but I would also still like to know a bit more context. I would assume that the defence would state, it wasn’t just notes relating to these babies if this were the case. But I’m not sure if they’d jump in here with that or will that come when they take over?
Id also like to know whether it was a storage bed as that would account for her shoving it under & not seeing it etc however, as I keep saying, the fact she’s moved house you’d assume she’d have chucked it out so does seem odd it’s been kept & kept under the bed as opposed to the spare room etc.
Also, again, like the FB searches, if there was an innocent explanation as other keep providing on here, why not state that in your interview. I hope we do find out more about the searches
Id also like to know whether it was a storage bed as that would account for her shoving it under & not seeing it etc however, as I keep saying, the fact she’s moved house you’d assume she’d have chucked it out so does seem odd it’s been kept & kept under the bed as opposed to the spare room etc.
Also, again, like the FB searches, if there was an innocent explanation as other keep providing on here, why not state that in your interview. I hope we do find out more about the searches
Oh I agree it’s shady as anything, especially that specific document which clearly shouldn’t have left the hospital. But we know that this was a bit of a shitshow of a unit at times, and let’s face it, no patient medical information should be taken home (although I can see how it happens as a mistake). So for arguments sake that could have happened here, and if it was a random bag of notes/documents/things from the bottom of your bag as the previous poster said the potentially there’s an innocent explanation and it’s not quite as sus as it looks, and it looks really quite dodgy to me, but if it’s actually just full of notes relating to this case then there’s no innocent explanation I don’t think.
Placed under the bed in a bag. Don’t people notoriously “hide” things under their bed?? I don’t know. I have never shoved old paper work under my bed. Some might, we are all different. I work in social care and confidential information would never make it under my bed if I’d taken something home by mistake.
Regardless of context/ what other information or items it was stored in the bag with. It’s been removed from the hospital to her home, into a bag and under a bed. I think this is purposeful.
Regardless of context/ what other information or items it was stored in the bag with. It’s been removed from the hospital to her home, into a bag and under a bed. I think this is purposeful.
I just can't see why, after inputting the notes electronically (the majority of which seem to have been scribbled by another nurse) you wouldn't immediately get rid of it. And if you did accidentally take it home, why wouldn't you dispose of it the minute you realised what you'd done? She'd just moved house too, it's not like there was junk everywhere. Her texts to her friends also said there was no spare bed yet so unless it got moved (again, why?) that makes me think it was her bed. Unless it turns out LL was also a secret hoarder, I can't see this as anything other than a trophy/momento, just like the card to Baby I's parents that she kept a picture of on her phone.
Just not sure these are notes that ever end up accidentally coming home though by the sounds of things. She’s taken those items on purpose imo. It’s not just that it’s paperwork going home it’s things you definitely wouldn’t and if you did you’re not going to store them under your bed for two years
any scenario that I try and make in my head to give her the benefit of the doubt literally makes me laugh out loud it’s so unbelievable to me!I live in a 3 bedroomed house but there's 4 of us so don't have the huge amount of free space Letby had.
I keep my important things under my bed (get your mind out of the gutter!) like passports, insurance documents etc
I hope there's some more detail given down the line.
I keep my important things under my bed (get your mind out of the gutter!) like passports, insurance documents etc
I hope there's some more detail given down the line.
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