Lucy Letby Case #20

[FastAndTheCurious7]

I’m still very much camp guilty. The defence are going to have to do more than just cast doubt with me. That being said, what I think is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I’m not the one on the jury.

 

[Stiltoncheese]

Christ this just gets more mad. Especially as they don't ever seem to use full court days and always have later starts/early finishes and delays. Weirdest court case I've followed. So many do 9am to 5pm with 1 hour for lunch and 2 x very short tea breaks mid morning and late afternoon.

This one feels like we are lucky if we get 2 solid hours of evidence over the whole day.

 

[Tofino]

Baby allegedly attacked by Lucy Letby was force fed massive amounts of milk - Banbury FM

A baby girl allegedly attacked by nurse Lucy Letby was force-fed “massive additional amounts of milk”, a court has heard. Letby, 32, is accused of overfeeding the infant just hours after she helped put up a banner at the Countess of Chester Hospital to mark the youngster’s 100th day of life. The...

banburyfm.com

This write up has the picture shown in court today. It shows the cot the baby was in, and the black circles are where the vomit landed.

I just can’t imagine the force!! The distance on the chair must be something like 5 times the length of the baby - imagine that relative to an adult!!

 

[Tofino]

This below is the relevant bit of the opening statement. I don’t see the issue tbh? This is surely a tiny part of the case. They even say ‘someone’ switched it off - I know it implies Lucy but one witness statement doesn’t actually prove anything. Lucy was still the first to that baby who just happened to be behind a screen and who happened to have a monitor switched off.

If a mistrial can happen because one witness says she now remembers something that wasn’t in her statement then there is a problem with the justice system. It hasn’t happened when Dr Evans has said something in addition to his report. Surely the jury just need to decide how credible they think the witness is and how relevant they think that bit of evidence is to the charge? It’s not the only evidence for that charge.

 

[OldBlondie]

I wish we heard more or had a more up to date pic of Lucifer how she behaves. Whether she gives any raised eyebrows or such. I can’t imagine she literally just sits there stone faced the whole time.

She’s been said to have been sitting emotionless in court. I know she will have been advised not to show emotion, but you’d think if it was you accused of these crimes you’d have to show emotion, look at how many witnesses have. I also hate that we’ve heard a few times she’s been watching the mothers weeping.




Also I thought Dr Evans was just saying a baby wouldn’t vomit for no reason with NG tube in, rather than wouldn’t vomit at all. Think it’s the way it was reported as the other articles read it as he was saying it was for no reason rather than just never

ETA Dan has just tweeted

Dan is there as is the Dailymail woman, although she never live tweets. Judith maybe there as well, for some reason she starts tweeting later than everyone else when she’s there, will keep an eye.

ps Hope you find some lovely sparkly tops for Xmas in your Matalan discount shopping

 

[Windowtothewall]

The fact none of the nurses mentioned it at the time or in text messages (they were discussing a lot of detail about baby G) makes me think the nurse is trying to protect Letby or herself.

Also why would 2 doctors apologise to her - if they had switched it off, it was clearly accidental - so why did they suddenly remember and apologise to her on the same day? And how come LL never mentioned it in police interview as she was the first nurse on the scene when the doctors left. And would have been told by her colleague surely. Seems a huge detail to leave out by LL and the nurse.

 

[raspberryjuice]

Every time I’m off work (so have the day free to follow the trial) there are delays, juror absences, early adjournments or poor reporting. Literally every time. I’ve been off pretty much since they adjourned before Xmas.

So you’ll all be pleased to know I’m back to work tomorrow and the trial should start getting back to normal 🫣

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Hi guys, I dropped out of this thread in Nov (iirc?) because it was upsetting, but I'm curious to see if there's been any important updates and whether people's opinions have shifted in either direction.

Another thing - I thought the trial was meant to finish by April? Surely it'll go well beyond that date after all the delays? I feel sorry for the families having it dragged out like this.



That's a good point.

I was absolutely certain she was responsible for baby F but honestly with the amount of fuck ups/statements changing etc I just think there is room for reasonable doubt. I do think she's a sinister fucker and she's done some of what she's been accused of. But some charges do feel like they've just been thrown in there to bolster the case. In my heart I'm 95% sure she did something sinister to E&F but the second bag being poisoned with F does make me think hang on a minute?. I don't see how they've proved she's harmed baby G either if I'm being honest. Overall I'm now camp unsure until the end of the trial.

 

[MmmB777]

I’m interested to see why there is a discrepancy between the very unnaturally specific/detailed texts to her friend where she gives a time for the vomit as 9 and medical notes say it happened after 10. Interestingly Letby fed her at 9:15 and then vomits that others were aware of happen after 10. So was there an incident right after Letby fed the baby or she’s trying to claim it was before her 9:15 feed? Did the baby have a troubling vomit and Letby went ahead and fed her right after? Or baby vomited badly after Letby’s feed which would be interesting. But it seems there’s no note of that or awareness of it which would be very serious considering what baby had gone through the last time she had this sort of episode. Or was the reason for the timings being made an hour earlier in the texts to emphasise to her friend how soon it happened after her taking over from the lowly NN and part of blame shifting and to deflect the vomiting incident away from her. Why do that?

 

[F1Grid]

This is very odd to me. First it's a consultant siting the cannula, then two doctors apologising to the nurse?

But say the doctor has left the screen around and the monitoring off... why wasn't it fixed? There were multiple nurses in the room (LL + the named nurse who took over from her at 11:30).

I think the reality is that LL has seen a screen around a baby with monitoring off, and taken the chance to do what she liked to them. Don't forget there were 2 incidents that day according to the opening statement, the first at 10:20 with vomiting and apnoea like the earlier incident (LL was named nurse for G for this one), and this second incident soon after another nurse took over G's care at 11:30.

There'd been 2 weeks since the first incident, then 5 days since G's transfer from APH, with her being well enough for her vaccinations to be planned. Suddenly LL is in a room with her again and we get a repeat of the earlier incident, plus another one to boot.

Might have missed it but why did the doctors apologise to the witness and not LL?

LL was named nurse from handover to 11:30. Another nurse (this witness) took over looking after G from 11:30.

 

[candyland_]

The monitor is a drop in the ocean to me. it doesn’t take away from the other cases and if you look at them as a whole it’s easy to assume that since she was present around other silenced monitors then its likely she was this time too. What was she doing going behind their screen in the first place?

 

[OldBlondie]

I personally think everyone is reading too much into the adjournment. There maybe more explanation in the write ups later and/or the podcast. I also see someone has asked dan on Twitter about whether court was scheduled to break anyway. Even if they have dismissed one of the 3 attempted murder charges for G (which I’m not convinced they even have), I don’t think that particularly matters anyway either tbh. Anyway hope everyone has a fab Xmas and new year and see everyone again 9th of jan. Over and out til then

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I think it’s really unfortunate that it has cast doubt on this 3rd of 3 attempted murder allegations.
It seems to now have been reduced to a he said/she said situation but with most admitting they can’t actually remember what was said.
I think this has all stemmed from the time of the incident when LL has manipulated others (the other nurse in particular) to believe what she wanted them to believe from the very start. Who knows what conversations they’ve had over the years.
I think the other nurse genuinely believes what she’s saying but, mmm
I’m genuinely appalled by the misery strewn around so wildly.
She’s still guilty.

 

[F1Grid]

On November 5, 2015, Letby searches for the mother of twins Child E and Child F at 11.41pm, then searched for the mother of Child G at 11.44pm and, in the same minute, a search for the mother of Child I.

She's linking these cases herself. This wasn't a long list of parents, it was E/F, G, then I.

For reference, E and F were early august. G early to mid september. I was in late october. And she searched in november.

 

[DianaBanana]

She was still alone with the baby when she was overfed again, and projectile vomited again, so unless the monitor has any relevance with regards to that I don’t think it means much?

It’s good that the nurse made the correction I think, the court need to be looking at facts only, with no room for doubt.

Not really sure what the monitors even do though to be perfectly honest, so I may be completely wrong and it’s a big deal for the defence!

 

[Treesy19]

I may need to re-read too, the bit about can’t vomit when being fed like that. Surely by that, it means when being fed correctly, and with the correct amounts. My interpretation so far with this bit, was Dr E was getting that that’s the case when no infection anyway and being fed correctly. Baby G was doing fine up until after this 2am thing, no sign of infection or anything. The vomit amount seems substantial and vomit comes from the stomach so a lot more must have been in there than the planned 45ml.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

They have been describing her as doing so well before the first incident. I think they have said she was never the same again after the initial over feed. These texts are once she’s returned from AP so she isn’t doing as well but was deemed well enough to be there again. She was severely brain damaged after the first incident.

I think the first incident would have really done the damage. The ones on the 21st were ‘just the icing on the cake’ for LL, horrible way to phrase it.
I wonder if baby G was able to bottle feed at this point, or was it all ng?
This baby was truly a miracle, and doing so well. She was beating the odds. The trauma she’s been put through. It’s just horrendous. It could make you weep.

 

[DianaBanana]

Exactly, and I just think it’s wrong that witnesses are allowed to listen to what’s gone on in court and change their statements off the back of it?! That seems so off to me!

 

[stardust1]

Just read over the live following, still camp guilty for me and the type of evidence I am expecting tbh

 

[Aberscot]

Its good to see the trial restart at last!
we are still only on baby H and poor baby had 2 unexplained collapses whilst Lucy was on shift, baby moved to different hospital and almost next day the baby completely recovers and no more episodes and goes home.
Like we were told at start of trial this is a pattern seen right through to baby Q, babies suddenly getting very poorly or dying unexpectedly and the common denominator is LL. Is it just a coincidence, I personally don’t think so but will wait to see what defence says.
From the standard
A series of messages are exchanged between Letby and the colleague acknowledging there had previously been "bitchiness" among staff and there had been "comments" about Letby regarding her role which Letby had found "upsetting".

I would love to know what texts LL found upsetting!
Also looking up parents of Baby H and others the week later at 1 in morning
On October 5, 2015, Letby searched on Facebook for the mother of Child H, as well as two other parents involved in the case, in the space of three minutes at 1.15am.