Lucy Letby Case #20

[Pulltheotherone]

Something has gone on this morning of that I have no doubt.
It is very odd to stop just like that and adjourn.
The natural course of events when listing these long trials would be that whilst it may not be possible to stop after each count on the indictment ( we are still midway on baby G ) it usually would of finished tomorrow. Going over until the 9th is not unusual over a Christmas break on a case of this magnitude. The jury will have been removed from court for the legal argument so they will be non the wiser either.

 

[SamPam]

Bloody hell! Hope there's a bit of information forthcoming about what the legal discussion was about

 

[docmum]

The datix system isn’t fit for purpose. Some people fire them off multiple times a day ‘I was 5 minutes late leaving for my break’ or ‘mr smith got a cheese salad instead of a cheese sandwich’, but obviously more serious and appropriate ones do get sent too. They all disappear via the online vacuum to the top bods who read and send to their minions, who filter to their own minions and so on - several times - until it will reach the ward manager who is usually the person who needs to know about these things. By this time it’ll be weeks later. There is a process to investigate and find quality improvement from those that are relevantly reporter and the principle for them is certainly there.
the wider issue is a huge underlying reason as to why nurses are striking. Nurses are literally angels; they work a 100mph for 13 hours and most are very good at documenting along the way issues such as ‘bleeped Dr at 1pm’ or making sure fluids or certain medications are double signed etc. But a datix takes at least 20 minutes to complete, would require a computer where your colleagues aren’t over your shoulder, and most would be too exhausted to stay after 13 hours to do it. By the time they come in the next shift there is almost inevitably something more distracting or acute to deal with that would then put thoughts of that datix out of mind.
It’s not the staff (I don’t include murderers in this statement though). All are working at full capacity to keep the patients heads above water, but leaves room for basically nothing else. It’s the entire underfunded broken system

 

[MmmB777]

This is very odd to me. First it's a consultant siting the cannula, then two doctors apologising to the nurse?

But say the doctor has left the screen around and the monitoring off... why wasn't it fixed? There were multiple nurses in the room (LL + the named nurse who took over from her at 11:30).

I think the reality is that LL has seen a screen around a baby with monitoring off, and taken the chance to do what she liked to them. Don't forget there were 2 incidents that day according to the opening statement, the first at 10:20 with vomiting and apnoea like the earlier incident (LL was named nurse for G for this one), and this second incident soon after another nurse took over G's care at 11:30.

There'd been 2 weeks since the first incident, then 5 days since G's transfer from APH, with her being well enough for her vaccinations to be planned. Suddenly LL is in a room with her again and we get a repeat of the earlier incident, plus another one to boot.


LL was named nurse from handover to 11:30. Another nurse (this witness) took over looking after G from 11:30.

If she wasn’t the designated nurse and there was no monitor alerting her to a problem with the baby, why hadn’t she removed the screen and then discovered the problems with both the baby and the monitor? Why was she there in the first place behind a screen?

 

[Aberscot]

This is horrific, poor baby I, if guilty 4 times she tried to murder her till she finally killed her.
The Facebook searches again to me this isn’t just a coincidence at the same time she was trying to harm another baby she looked up others that she had success with thats beyond sick.
Again this baby was fine when removed from her if only they didn’t return her to that hospital.
I cant imagine being the parents in court sat across from her today

 

[candyland_]

Does anyone know what “admin” duties fully entails? Would she have been able to update/ delete anything in the records? She would have known at this point she’s being investigated.
I do wonder what access she had.

You have to have a very good reason to access patient notes and believe it leaves a log that they have been looked at.

 

[Tofino]

I’ve been glad of the break, far too much going on this week with Stephen Bear’s trial and the Meghan and Harry show. I can’t keep up!

 

[MmmB777]

If LL was behind the screen with the baby alone, surely she could have disconnected the monitor herself then deflected blame on to the doctor? When the other nurse arrived a simple “Dr X must have left the monitor off and now baby G has collapsed, it’s so lucky I got here in time like the baby-saving hero I am”. Nurse questions the doctor, he says he’s sorry because he can’t be 100% sure either way (altho he says it would be unusual practice) and LL has got away with it again.

Why is a baby that’s just been seen and observed by two doctors, is at the point of needing resuscitation and no longer breathing ‘shortly’ after they leave and the person standing there behind a screen is the person at all of these events? That would be an incredibly sudden turn.

I don’t think it would be uncommon at all for some colleagues to believe that medical murderers are innocent until they’re found guilty. In fact I can think of that happening several times so I personally don’t feel that it adds anything at all. Isn’t this nurse unnamed? Therefore she likely still works at the hospital. I’m assuming that if she felt the hospital was the cause of a dramatic increase in deaths and if that wasn’t due to LL then she might have wanted to leave by now. Surely it wouldn’t have improved a great deal if it wasn’t foul play. I personally wouldn’t stick around if I felt the hospital I worked in not only caused multiple deaths and near deaths but unfairly fitted up a nurse for serial murder.

 

[MmmB777]

Looks like no live coverage again today. They seemed to end suddenly during Sandy Bohin's evidence so assume she will be back on the stand this morning. There is no way this trial finishes at the 6 month point as the defence must have a lot to bring as well

Dan the man did say he was back today. We were spoilt yesterday with quite a lot of detail from Mark! I’m off to use my 25% Matalan discount today and won’t be able to enjoy it without thinking of you bunch of bastards xx

ETA Dan has just tweeted

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

Can anyone with experience of premature babies and NG tubes confirm whether the Dr’s evidence that a baby can’t vomit whilst on an NG tube is true?

Mine had them. The idea is they have a bag on the end for free drainage if there is constant fluid coming back and poor absorption and then they take it off and bung the end to allow feeds to be absorbed and meds etc otherwise jt comes back out. This baby it depends if the feeds were absorbing bht they were according to medical charts so stomach empty and therefore not needing drainage and hence wouldn’t vomit either x

Mine never vomited with their NGT’s

 

[IGiveUp22]

Hmm the nurse correcting her statement has made me go I won’t lie. Because the whole monitor thing seemed extremely sinister from the prosecution opening statement. I wonder if the prosecution were aware of this amendment?

Having said that, I still think there is enough evidence to still make me think she over fed this baby. I guess the whole monitor thing doesn’t really change that part. Plus, I think it’s good she changed it as we want to know the facts. But I reckon it might be enough to help put RD in the juries mind..

Wonder what tomorrow will bring!

Definitely agree that BM (or anyone who was on the firm NG ride) can’t knock the witnesses for adding/changing things when imo, this change goes in LL’s favour

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

I agree… that felt very sudden and the use of language “ no more evidence can be heard” … why not? Doesn’t feel like a natural close for a Christmas break in court.

 

[raspberryjuice]

Definitely agree she’s guilty for the whole lot and more. IMO she’s a monster and I hope she never gets to dance to Eternal Flame by Atomic Kitten, wearing her sequin vest top (from matalan, obvs), drinking a sex on the beach in Popworld ever again.

I just struggle with H on her own. When you add all the other cases of course it screams LL is at work again, and I do hope in court it’s been much clearer. I do believe she’s done it. I would just struggle to argue WHY I believe she’s done it, without saying “it’s the same as…” “it can’t be a coincidence that…” if that makes sense. But I do think (hope?) that’s down to the reporting rather than it being a weaker case. I’ll try to catch up on the podcast later.

 

[MmmB777]

what’s the sentence under the bottom line - ‘shows just how little….’

..they have on their matalan rewards card

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

I’d like to think the judge has bollocked ben for being such a twat.

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

I really do believe that LL was harming babies long before A

Absolutely with you on that

 

[candyland_]

Hopefully this little break in the case will allow the parents and the jury a couple of days breathing space although I can imagine it’s difficult when it’s drawn out.

 

[xoxo GG]

Back tomorrow apparently

 

[Aberscot]

I just finished the Daily Mail podcast, I think it’s really good [ apart from presenter voice as she sounds like Holly Willoughby] it clears up lots that we dont Hear from the daily reporting.
Nothing today about how it ended suddenly yesterday so guess its just back on the 9th.
Merry Christmas to everyone apart from LL, hope her turkey dinner in prison is rank.
and hope all the parents in this case have peaceful Christmas, it must be awful for them this time year

 

[Mysteryy]

Been following this case on and off but can I thank all you wonderful Wiki contributors as it makes it so much easier to read all the reporting and information about the case so thank you