Lucy Letby Case #2

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Yeah I’d like to know what they thought medically caused that
had it been explained what caused these? If she’s used air, milk and insulin. What is the common thing that’s caused the skin mottling

A few posts have mentioned the rashes. I’m not sure about neonates, someone in this field could maybe clarify, but working with adults in palliative care, when patients are entering the end of life phase, mottling rashes are a usual sign, it’s the body shutting down basically.
I presume this is what was happening with the babies, the prosecution so far have put it that it was a common trait with the babies involved, I’m just playing devils advocate but I’d have thought if the babies were deteriorating due to natural causes for example, then mottling could appear also. I’m not sure though and obviously they’ve taken that stance from medical staff who work there. I guess we will see what the defence answers for this.
 
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Here’s an old article from 2018 which is quite interesting…. note where LL's photo has come from…. Facebook!


This article is more than 4 years old
Cheshire baby deaths: police widen inquiry to second hospital
This article is more than 4 years old
Liverpool women’s NHS trust part of investigation after arrest of Lucy Letby over deaths at Chester hospital
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Lucy Letby is understood to have worked at the Countess of Chester hospital as a children’s nurse from 2011. Photograph: Facebook

Nazia Parveen and Josh Halliday
Wed 4 Jul 2018 15.21 BST


Police investigating the suspicious deaths of babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital’s neonatal unit have widened their investigation to a second hospital.
Lucy Letby, 28 from Chester, is understood to have been arrested by detectives investigating the child deaths at the Chester hospital’s neonatal unit between March 2015 and July 2016.

On Wednesday, another hospital confirmed that they were co-operating with a police inquiry. A spokesperson for Liverpool women’s NHS trust confirmed that Letby had completing some training at Liverpool Women’s hospital and was co-operating with the police investigation.
The trust’s spokesperson added: “We are co-operating with police as part of their investigation which includes a routine review of patients cared for on our neonatal unit during the time of these placements.
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“There is currently no suggestion that any patients at Liverpool Women’s came to any harm in relation to this investigation.”
The police began an investigation into infant deaths at the hospital in May 2017, initially looking at the deaths of 15 babies between June 2015 and June 2016. On Tuesday police said the investigation had been widened to include 17 deaths and 15 non-fatal collapses of babies between March 2015 and July 2016.
Cheshire police would not confirm the name of the suspect, however Letby was identified by neighbours in Chester on Tuesday. Police said the woman was arrested that morning and taken into custody.
On Wednesday, West Mercia police returned to Letby’s parents Susan, 58, and John, 73, in Hereford. Two uniformed officers went into the property and spent about 50 minutes inside.
Neighbours said they were struggling to come to terms with the arrest of the University of Chester graduate. One friend described Lucy as a “professional nurse” who was dedicated to her “dream job” and “wouldn’t hurt a fly”.
The woman, who wished to remain anonymous, said: “We’re still reeling from it to be honest. Even after sleeping on it I think everybody around here is still in a state of shock and disbelief. Lucy was doing the job she dreamed of doing and appeared nothing but dedicated and professional. You can’t imagine her hurting a fly let alone defenceless babies.”
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Another resident on the street, who also did not want to be named, added: “I can’t add much more to what’s been already said about her. I knew her when she was a little girl and she was as sweet as anything. I’ve seen her grow up and she seemed a lovely woman. So this is news is deeply and utterly shocking. I can’t fathom it. When you hear of these sort of things, you always get one or two people saying ‘I thought there was something fishy about them’. But with Lucy all you will hear is positive things.”
A shop worker at a store close to the family home said: “They pop in now and again and they are a very polite family. They all seem very friendly and normal. It’s shocking as it’s a nice area and we rarely see police around here.”
On Wednesday, forensic investigators were seen working inside Letby’s house about a mile from the hospital. A blue tent remained on the driveway and two police community support officers were guarding the entrance to the property where Letby is thought to have lived for at least two years.
Steve Doyle, from Ellesmere Port, said he had seen Letby in the Countess of Chester’s unit for women and children when his daughter was admitted to hospital. “I remember distinctly her face and she was part of that unit, on ward 30,” he said. “We didn’t get to talk to her but I recognised her face. It’s a disgrace, what’s happened with the Countess. I wouldn’t be taking our child there again. It’s tragic. I feel so sorry for the parents.”
Letby is understood to have worked at the hospital as a children’s nurse since 2011, when she graduated, and before that as a student nurse during her three years of training.
She was pictured smiling and holding up a “babygrow” garment in the hospital’s internal newsletter, the Standard, in March 2013, in which she spoke about her role in the neonatal unit.
In a second appearance in the hospital newsletter, in August 2015, Letby was pictured smiling for a story about how nurses had raised £1.5m and reached the halfway mark in a £3m bid to build a new “state of the art” baby unit.
A photograph of Letby in her graduation robes and gown appeared in the Hereford Times newspaper in December 2011, along with a note from her parents: “We are so proud of you after all your hard work. Love Mum and Dad.”
A report by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health in May said staffing at the hospital’s neonatal unit, which reported a “higher than usual” number of baby deaths, was inadequate.
The review found no definitive explanation for an increase in mortality rates, but identified significant gaps in medical and nursing rotas, poor decision making and insufficient senior cover.
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A mother who has spoken to detectives investigating the deaths of multiple babies at the Countess of Chester said she would never have any more children after being left traumatised by her experience, and she called for a wider inquiry.
The woman, who wished to remain anonymous, told the Guardian her son was born at the hospital by an emergency cesarean section in September 2015 and spent two days in the neonatal unit.
She said: “My son stopped breathing after I was induced and the negligence in the hospital was absolutely horrendous from the start. They had no staff and the care was just terrible. Some of the midwives were lovely but the majority weren’t. I ended up having a horrendous time after giving birth.
“My son was in the neonatal unit and I developed an infection which was due to negligence by a member of staff. We made a complaint at the time but it was brushed under the carpet.”
A spokesman for Countess of Chester Hospital NHS foundation trust said: “We will not be commenting further at this time due to the ongoing police investigation.”
 
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A few posts have mentioned the rashes. I’m not sure about neonates, someone in this field could maybe clarify, but working with adults in palliative care, when patients are entering the end of life phase, mottling rashes are a usual sign, it’s the body shutting down basically.
I presume this is what was happening with the babies, the prosecution so far have put it that it was a common trait with the babies involved, I’m just playing devils advocate but I’d have thought if the babies were deteriorating due to natural causes for example, then this would appear anyway. I’m not sure though and obviously they’ve taken that stance from medical staff who work there. I guess we will see what the defence answers for this.
Interesting yeah I’m sure it’ll all be explained x
 
As they’ve obviously been all over her digital life I am curious what her search history is like. That’s got to be revealed in due course. It certainly adds to the whole picture. Much like SB’s google searches for Star Hobson.

Yes, I know I Google a lot (a lot of crime) but I certainly have never googled certain things like “will x y z kill …” or whatever. So let’s see what she has!
Jeez, my Google search is horrific but then I've never been connected to a crime. Let's hope that continues, otherwise I'm going down!
 
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Yeah I don't think it's that odd to Google statements like "will x kill y", a colleague of mine once said insulin is commonly used in murder because it doesn't come up in an autopsy so I've certainly googled "does insulin show up in autopsy" before which probably wouldn't look good if I was arrested the following day!
 
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Pencil theory?
I don’t want to butcher it as I’m awful with my words (adhd&autism) but I think basically the idea was, if you take a single pencil (coincidence), it’s pretty breakable on its own, however the more pencils you add, the stronger they become and harder to break..
 
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Hi guys, I’ve been reading & catching up with this thread all day. It’s very heavy, and ‘triggering’ I suppose After my little girl was in a Nicu from dec2015-April 2016, But I feel like I want to follow it for the sake of those precious little babies & their families. I completely understand innocent untill proven guilty, but I’m finding it really hard to see how she is innocent at the moment. That being said, I am willing to have an open mind, thanks to a beaut on another thread I follow.
Anyway I hope you’re all okay - this is a truly heartbreaking case 💔
 
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People make up some proper random tit🤣I cannot get on board with this whole theory either as I believe if they wanted rid of her there would be so many ways to do that.
Hmmm if I wanted to throw out there some wild card theories, then maybe Lucy did whistleblow and nobody listened to her. And this was revenge or a way to get people to pay attention. Maybe she thought the hospital bosses would get the blame.

or maybe I’ve watched too many episodes of criminal minds 🤣
 
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Hi guys, I’ve been reading & catching up with this thread all day. It’s very heavy, and ‘triggering’ I suppose After my little girl was in a Nicu from dec2015-April 2016, But I feel like I want to follow it for the sake of those precious little babies & their families. I completely understand innocent untill proven guilty, but I’m finding it really hard to see how she is innocent at the moment. That being said, I am willing to have an open mind, thanks to a beaut on another thread I follow.
Anyway I hope you’re all okay - this is a truly heartbreaking case 💔
Miracle Moon - NICU support & Bliss are offering support on Facebook to any NICU parents who may find it triggering xx
 
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If there’s any evidence of her blowing the whistle on senior management I would say it’s an excellent defence for her.

as I say, let’s see if any evidence of this occurs….
I’d guess they would do a SAR to find any evidence of this whistle blowing from LL. I am pretty sure that would also include deleted documentation. I’d hope for her sake she has the evidence on her part of where she whistle blew. I’m pretty certain if they wanted to get rid of her there would be much easier ways to do it than accuse her of something so hideous.

For any nurses:

If you were understaffed/felt that machines weren’t working and it was effecting your job and many babies were dying would you turn a blind eye and crack on or would you feel it was your responsibility to do something about it to protect your self?
 
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Yeah I don't think it's that odd to Google statements like "will x kill y", a colleague of mine once said insulin is commonly used in murder because it doesn't come up in an autopsy so I've certainly googled "does insulin show up in autopsy" before which probably wouldn't look good if I was arrested the following day!
See now I want to Google that. Defo not planning to carry anything out though 🙈
 
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I can’t stop thinking about or reading about this case. My baby girl was born in June and spent just over 2 weeks in NICU with sepsis, acute kidney failure and respiratory issues. She had a central IV line, cannulas, feeding tube, was on a ventilator… the thought that somebody could purposely harm these tiny little babies makes me feel sick to my stomach. You put so much trust in the nurses, especially at night time when you have to leave them, you think oh they’re safe they’re in the best place. It’s so so sad I can’t quite put into words what I want to say.

Part of me wants to stop reading about it but I can’t 😢😢
Im so sorry. Hope all is ok now? Must have been so worrying.
 
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I don’t know how many beds the unit has but for example, a 15 bedded ICU in my Trust has about 50 band 5s, 12 band 6s and 10 band 7s. So you can go weeks without working with the same person.

Medical teams are a lot smaller but they do their rotas differently, often 4 shifts in a row then a few days off rather than sporadic shifts, so very possible it was a different Dr each time. But there is a group of consultants at the top of the unit who incidents would be fed up to. And usually all incident reports are sent to the 6s/7s (for info, as they are meant to be learning opportunities not just tellings off) and then dealt with by 1 or 2 dedicated Nurses, being sent up to trust management if deemed necessary for further investigation.
thank you this is really helpful. So would all collapses, even if they survived, be serious enough for an incident report to be fed up to the consultants for review or would it just be deaths?

I would expect if there are any incident reports and formal reviews then these would form part of evidence, not just general medical records. I wonder what the timeline is for all this being pieced together in the hospital and how it was escalated. I’m sure it will be covered as I’m sure there were reports she was put on admin duties so they would have to cover how that came about.
 
Hmmm if I wanted to throw out there some wild card theories, then maybe Lucy did whistleblow and nobody listened to her. And this was revenge or a way to get people to pay attention. Maybe she thought the hospital bosses would get the blame.

or maybe I’ve watched too many episodes of criminal minds 🤣
wanted the bosses to get the blame🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
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If there’s going to be a wiki some of these earlier articles ought to go in there. I know from the McCann case the earlier articles had information in that disappeared later on.

this article is interesting it says LL was suspended in 2017 and removed from duties and placed in an administrative role before that.

I think I read today she’d worked at the countess since 2011 so is that police job going to start reviewing cases from that far back? How long are medical records held?



Nurse arrested over Cheshire baby deaths released on bail
This article is more than 4 years old
Lucy Letby, 28, had been held on suspicion of murder of eight infants at Chester hospital
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Lucy Letby was arrested on Tuesday. Photograph: Facebook

Nazia Parveen
@NParveenG
Fri 6 Jul 2018 17.09 BST


A nurse arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies at a UK hospital has been released on bail.
Detectives in Cheshire questioned Lucy Letby for three days before she was released on Friday morning. The 28-year-old was arrested on Tuesday as part of a year-long investigation into the deaths of babies at the Countess of Chester hospital’s neonatal unit in 2015-16.

Letby was held on suspicion of the murder of eight babies and the attempted murder of six others. She has not been charged. Police said she had been bailed pending further inquiries.
“We continue to recognise that this investigation has a huge impact on all of the families, staff and patients at the hospital as well as members of the public. Parents of all the babies continue to be kept fully updated and are being supported throughout the process by specially trained officers,” Cheshire police said.
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“This is an extremely difficult time for all the families and it is important to remember that at the heart of this there are a number of bereaved families seeking answers as to what happened to their children.”
The force said the investigation was ongoing and there were no set timescales for progress.
A spokesman for the Countess of Chester hospital NHS foundation trust said: “We are continuing to support Cheshire police with their ongoing investigation.
“In line with the trust’s current policies, the member of staff involved will not be returning to work while this matter is ongoing. We will not be commenting further at this time.” Letby, who had worked at the hospital for seven years and had been training to work with babies in intensive care, was detained as part of an investigation into 17 deaths and 15 non-fatal collapses of babies between March 2015 and July 2016.
It is understood she was suspended 12 months ago and before this she had been removed from clinical duties and placed in an administrative role.
After her arrest the investigation was widened to include Liverpool women’s hospital, where Letby did some training.
Liverpool women’s NHS trust confirmed it was cooperating with the inquiry.
On Friday, police continued to search Letby’s semi-detached home in Blacon. Neighbours said a silver Suzuki car with an NHS parking permit in the windscreen was moved at 4.30am. The vehicle had been moved to a neighbouring driveway on Tuesday to clear space to erect a blue forensics tent, which remains in place.
In the afternoon officers wearing white suits and blue gloves were seen carrying pieces of wood out of the property and digging up the back garden. Forensic teams were also seen conducting a fingertip search of the property, focusing on drains, window ledges and the front garden and garage.
A police presence remained at Letby’s parents’ home in Hereford. A woman who answered the phone confirmed she was Letby’s mother, Susan, 58, and refused to comment about her daughter’s whereabouts.
 
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If she is innocen, would that mean there’s still a baby killer on the loose do we think?
 
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I can’t understand how these deaths continued for over a year. So far the deaths and collapses have happened very close together and they all had concerning rashes but nothing was said? No staff meetings or staff room chatter?
Swear after spending 2 weeks on a covid ward, one thing I noticed was the don’t question each other. A health care assistant told me they were piling up bodies on a local ice rink. They wasn’t btw, they didn’t even fill their own morgue never mind the additionals to get as far as the local ice rink 🤨. He said this in front of a doctor and a nurse. This is readily available information that others have obtained through an FOI… yet they all nodded in agreement. They don’t question each other. ALTHOUGH, Lucy was pre covid so very interesting
 
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