Lucy Letby Case #17

[dual2099]

I don’t think she liked to see others happy because she didn’t have any happiness of her own. There’s been no texts to friends outside of work so it’s possible she didn’t have anyone else, no relationship of her own etc. some people go to extreme lengths to ruin things that others have.

Do you think those texts would have been included? Just curious- having said that they did use a text to her parents?


It’s really difficult to know what the triggers would have been.

I think when I saw the Shipman documentary he witnessed his Mum dying when he was about 17 - correct me if I’m wrong. So the theory is that was a trigger for him.

Somebody who is psychopathic doesn’t have the same emotions, feelings we have. Hence they feel no guilt or shame. So all they can do is mimick those feelings and emotions, some of them are extremely good at it. Hence why we hear about ‘that great guy who seemed so charming and normal ‘ turns out to be violent or a killer- Fred West was popular in his community, he had a very established building company, and people in the area used his services. Even when he was arrested the police found him amusing ! It’s far more complex than we realise. The reason they get away with it for so long is they know how to look harmless and trusting.

 

[MmmB777]

Do you think those texts would have been included? Just curious- having said that they did use a text to her parents?


It’s really difficult to know what the triggers would have been.

I think when I saw the Shipman documentary he witnessed his Mum dying when he was about 17 - correct me if I’m wrong. So the theory is that was a trigger for him.

Somebody who is psychopathic doesn’t have the same emotions, feelings we have. Hence they feel no guilt or shame. So all they can do is mimick those feelings and emotions, some of them are extremely good at it. Hence why we hear about ‘that great guy who seemed so charming and normal ‘ turns out to be violent or a killer- Fred West was popular in his community, he had a very established building company, and people in the area used his services. Even when he was arrested the police found him amusing ! It’s far more complex than we realise. The reason they get away with it for so long is they know how to look harmless and trusting.

Exactly. It’s quite possible she had an interest in the medical, the body, playing nurse that was seen as cute/clever/destined to be a nurse but was actually a sign of something else. It doesn’t have to be all killing animals and being the local weirdo.

 

[jhm9rhs]

People like that are the minority though thankfully enough, they are just loud!!
If there are some people like that on the jury the other jury members will be able for them.
I'm curious though, if I was on a jury and believed one of my fellow jurors was mental unable to preform the role properly (I don't mean a difference of opinion I mean they are unable to comprehend basic facts e.g. a person cannot be in two places at once etc.) can I raise a red flag anywhere??

I wouldn't trust more than 50 per cent of my colleagues to possess the critical thinking skills to be on a jury. Scary stuff.

 

[tay65]

Exactly. It’s quite possible she had an interest in the medical, the body, playing nurse that was seen as cute/clever/destined to be a nurse but was actually a sign of something else. It doesn’t have to be all killing animals and being the local weirdo.

I can't help but wonder if she didn't see the babies as real people as they were so young and helpless. The people she was really hurting were the parents. I wonder if she chose the babies specifically or she just took any opportunity when it presented itself. It is fascinating and like many people on here I worry a lot about her somehow being found NG although it's difficult to believe it could go this way. I do wish the media would stop showing the "sweet" picture of her and show a more up to date one although I realize the jury see her as she is at present and they are the people who count.

 

[OldBlondie]

Finally a report from today

Lucy Letby colleagues tell murder trial they did not give baby insulin

Three nurses working on a neonatal ward where Lucy Letby allegedly poisoned a baby give evidence.

www.bbc.co.uk

ETA very short report for today. What has gone on today that isn’t being reported

 

[MmmB777]

Finally a report from today

Lucy Letby colleagues tell murder trial they did not give baby insulin

Three nurses working on a neonatal ward where Lucy Letby allegedly poisoned a baby give evidence.

www.bbc.co.uk

ETA very short report for today. What has gone on today that isn’t being reported

Hmm Not a lot of information there for a full day of court but going to be extremely clear nobody else poisoned these poor little babes. I wonder if any of these people were even on shift the next time it happened! I really think the public have not been allowed to know much from today. I am just so hoping we get Mark for the insulin expert witness.

Edited to add what a shame we don’t get to hear old Benny boy absolutely reeeeeeeaching when cross examining these ladies

 

[DownBelow21]

Just listened to the podcast for baby E. Absolutely devastating. I sobbed hearing about that poor baby boy.

In my eyes she's definitely guilty, clear as day. Burn the bleeping witch.

 

[OldBlondie]

Hmm Not a lot of information there for a full day of court but going to be extremely clear nobody else poisoned these poor little babes. I wonder if any of these people were even on shift the next time it happened! I really think the public have not been allowed to know much from today. I am just so hoping we get Mark for the insulin expert witness.

I couldn’t believe how short it was. I thought today in court might have just been a short day in, and that’s why not much coverage. But now I’m wondering if there are reporting restrictions, but I don’t understand what they wouldn’t be able to report on that might have gone on today. If the witness gave video evidence from Australia, maybe it’s like the day the doctor gave evidence from Switzerland, and it went far quicker than expected and finished early. I wonder if it’s to do with the re jig of witnesses today rather than restrictions, unless I’m missing the point of what they wouldn’t be allowed to report today?

Edited to add what a shame we don’t get to hear old Benny boy absolutely reeeeeeeaching when cross examining these ladies

I second this, I feel we have really missed out here fellas

 

[od12839]

I think with Baby F I finally understand what Ben is trying to do, defence wise.

There's not actually much in Baby F's case that points to Lucy herself. Her involvement is basically just hanging up a TPN bag. We know SOMETHING dodgy happened, but there's no reason to single out Lucy; any of the nurses could have sabotaged the bag beforehand. It's only suspicious when you know that Lucy specifically has had several mysterious collapses by this point, Facebook stalks the families, takes home paperwork etc etc etc.

So I assume Ben is suggesting people have worked backwards; Lucy was present at a suspicious collapse -> all collapses Lucy was present at are now suspicious by default. Confirmation bias fills in the blanks. If Ben can make you doubt Baby A-E, then you have to doubt F aswell.

A narrative i'd be happy to entertain, if it weren't for the insulin. Because now we seemingly have confirmation that there's a murderer, and not a series of unfortunate coincidences. At this point it'd be very hard to believe that there IS a murderer, but they've framed Lucy (who acts suspicious in her own time anyway).

 

[MmmB777]

I couldn’t believe how short it was. I thought today in court might have just been a short day in, and that’s why not much coverage. But now I’m wondering if there are reporting restrictions, but I don’t understand what they wouldn’t be able to report on that might have gone on today. If the witness gave video evidence from Australia, maybe it’s like the day the doctor gave evidence from Switzerland, and it went far quicker than expected and finished early. I wonder if it’s to do with the re jig of witnesses today rather than restrictions, unless I’m missing the point of what they wouldn’t be allowed to report today?

Well I think they have to be careful reporting anything that makes her look too G so maybe why it was so limited. Usually they balance any article with a little bit of the cross examination too but she didn’t even get a token “Miss Letby denies all allegations”
Oh I would love to read how Ben coped today maybe he gave them all a little repeat of the ol’ “you can’t know what you don’t know if you can’t know and also don’t know and also a lot has been said about this.. and we don’t know”

 

[dual2099]

I can't help but wonder if she didn't see the babies as real people as they were so young and helpless. The people she was really hurting were the parents. I wonder if she chose the babies specifically or she just took any opportunity when it presented itself. It is fascinating and like many people on here I worry a lot about her somehow being found NG although it's difficult to believe it could go this way. I do wish the media would stop showing the "sweet" picture of her and show a more up to date one although I realize the jury see her as she is at present and they are the people who count.

That’s interesting. When my child was in hospital I was talking to one of the nurses, we got onto the subject of surgeons, she said ‘you’ve got to be a certain type of person to be a surgeon’. I got the feeling she meant you have to be missing a certain amount of feeling to be able to do it. Ie you have to see people more as bones and tissue than a person, a machine that needs to fixed if you will. Especially if you are operating on tiny children. I have noticed this recently after receiving treatment for the last 6 months, you turn into a number that needs to be scannned and processed. You stop being a person and there is no real thought for you as a person and how it affects you. Now I’m not saying you are not sign posted to those services, or everybody in the medical profession doesn’t care, I just think the system is set out that way that real compassion stops. I do wonder if I’m the end she wasn’t seeing human beings, something to be processed and moved on, and in the process she got a kick a surge of excitement from what was to happen afterwards. It got dull and boring to her, so she decided to liven things up. But as I said, if she has psychopath is traits she would not have been able to empathise. That’s what you don’t have as a psychopath. You lack empathy.

 

[candyland_]

Do you think those texts would have been included? Just curious- having said that they did use a text to her parents?


It’s really difficult to know what the triggers would have been.

I think when I saw the Shipman documentary he witnessed his Mum dying when he was about 17 - correct me if I’m wrong. So the theory is that was a trigger for him.

Somebody who is psychopathic doesn’t have the same emotions, feelings we have. Hence they feel no guilt or shame. So all they can do is mimick those feelings and emotions, some of them are extremely good at it. Hence why we hear about ‘that great guy who seemed so charming and normal ‘ turns out to be violent or a killer- Fred West was popular in his community, he had a very established building company, and people in the area used his services. Even when he was arrested the police found him amusing ! It’s far more complex than we realise. The reason they get away with it for so long is they know how to look harmless and trusting.

I think it’s strange that they haven’t included at least some texts from friends outside of work when they have mentioned the estate agents and her holiday etc but they could tie in somewhere.

 

[OldBlondie]

Well I think they have to be careful reporting anything that makes her look too G so maybe why it was so limited. Usually they balance any article with a little bit of the cross examination too but she didn’t even get a token “Miss Letby denies all allegations”
Oh I would love to read how Ben coped today maybe he gave them all a little repeat of the ol’ “you can’t know what you don’t know if you can’t know and also don’t know and also lot has been said about this.. and we don’t know”

I think im still missing what they are restricted in reporting, some of the headlines have Called her a murderer outright, so I don’t know what would be said in court that can’t be published, as it’s all stuff the jury have already heard. Anyway it’s been a slow news day today for whatever reason, let’s just hope mark is back tomorrow and normal service may resume. But fully agree it would have been fab listening to BM today

 

[candyland_]

In my eyes she could possibly have got away with the insulin poisoning if she just hung the bag and said no more but she couldn’t stop involving herself. She’s almost incriminating herself by being so keen to be kept up to date with what was happening with him.

 

[OldBlondie]

Anyone else think it’s interesting LL set up the insulin to kill F after she left, and one of the nurses that was asked about it today was Sophie Ellis, just suggesting that if it was something down the jealousy/nose out of joint route and SE could be the new young amazing girl. I still wouldn’t guess on a definite motive, was just a thought. I personally reckon it may be more than one thing such as jealousy and wanting to punish others and something else. But the only thing I am absolutely convinced on, is she is an absolute psychopath and may have done this for a few various reasons that will only make sense to her. Although I want to hear the psychologist’s give their thoughts on why she has done this, and what may have triggered her etc

In my eyes she could possibly have got away with the insulin poisoning if she just hung the bag and said no more but she couldn’t stop herself from involving herself. She’s almost incriminating herself by being so keen to be kept up to date with what was happening with him.

She just can’t stay away can she has to be involved in other nurse’s babies and involves herself in the parents too, going to see this repeatedly even more so than we’ve seen already

 

[candyland_]

Anyone else think it’s interesting LL set up the insulin to kill F after she left, and one of the nurses that was asked about it today was Sophie Ellis, just suggesting that if it was something down the jealousy/nose out of joint route and SE could be the new young amazing girl. I still wouldn’t guess on a definite motive, was just a thought. I personally reckon it may be more than one thing such as jealousy and wanting to punish others and something else. But the only thing I am absolutely convinced on, is she is an absolute psychopath and may have done this for a few various reasons

I haven’t read any reports yet but seeing that it was Sophie slightly changes things for me. She could have a grudge against ‘the new girl’ in a sort of ‘Ha! Deal with this!’ sort of way to make her look incompetent.

 

[MmmB777]

In my eyes she could possibly have got away with the insulin poisoning if she just hung the bag and said no more but she couldn’t stop herself from involving herself. She’s almost incriminating herself by being so keen to be kept up to date with what was happening with him.

I think the main thing that got people’s attention will absolutely be the fact she was the common denominator between so many incidents but they will have had no “proof”. The insulin will have felt very different because the babies survived and Letby technically wasn’t around - but like you say.. there she was wanting to know every detail. Predicting the worst. Overly interested.
Then behind the scenes police later discover she’s searching parents all the time. Yet fast forward to police interview and she cannot remember a great deal about anything can she

 

[OldBlondie]

I haven’t read any reports yet but seeing that it was Sophie slightly changes things for me. She could have a grudge against ‘the new girl’ in a sort of ‘Ha! Deal with this!’ sort of way to make her look incompetent.

This was my thought, I’m not saying it’s right or I even really believe it. But just something that is plausible if that was part of her motive

I think the main thing that got people’s attention will absolutely be the fact she was the common denominator between so many incidents but they will have had no “proof”. The insulin will have felt very different because the babies survived and Letby technically wasn’t around - but like you say.. there she was wanting to know every detail. Predicting the worst. Overly interested.
Then behind the scenes police later discover she’s searching parents all the time. Yet fast forward to police interview and she cannot remember a great deal about anything can she

She honestly makes me sick, and makes me sick how long she got away with it. She thought she was being so clever too. She prayed on the weaknesses of that unit, and prayed on the babies that she thought she’d get away with it with. So evil and hiding in plain sight that whole time. She has to be a psychopath surely, I’m convinced a non psychopath could not be capable of all of this, and how she kept the mask up goes a long way to explaining how she did go unnoticed for so long. As was shown in some great examples today of other SK that people would never have expected to have done what they did

 

[MmmB777]

This was my thought, I’m not saying it’s right or I even really believe it. But just something that is plausible if that was part of her motive

I’m not sure, could be of course. Just doesn’t feel quite the right fit for me for this kind of crime. There have been very few cases of HCSK doing it to get at someone - one in the journal I read that was a spurned lover doing it to get back at/ get attention of a doctor that dumped her. I think it absolutely was a game to her though so she may well have enjoyed upsetting nurses she felt were inferior to her. I think the highest other amount of presence at the incidents in the case was somebody there for 7 (I couldn’t think how to word that whatsoever so hope it makes sense ). I think if it was revenge/to get at a certain person that might be higher.

 

[brightonbarbie]

I’d have to spill too

I don’t mean to be a bore but PLEASE don’t encourage or gossip about jury members .. it is so effing dangerous and could derail an entire trial and could prevent countless families from getting closure by causing huge delays for a retrial. I know forums seem fun but they have real world consequences when it comes to legal matters.