Very interesting point about the fb searches tbf. Could’ve been checking for tribute posts on the anniversaries of the days they passed away to see if there was any hints about an investigation or something posted? Idk
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Agreed. To be fair to her, I think she was coming from a place of compassion towards the parents, who’s baby had just died in a horrible and, frankly, undignified way. Dying from an unsuccessful CPR is horrible for relatives, never mind the bleeding.
A mistake on the Consultants part obviously.
I'm so sorry about that and I get you and it's a difficult one...I know with my loved one, we had no choice as such...and it broke me at the time...I didn't want him to be put through that...and I'm sure the baby's parents wouldn't want that either!
It just shocked me to read that she more or less " assumed" it was NEC but in same tone saying she didn't expect hom to deteriorate in that way.
It's just heartbreaking to think the other babies may have been potentially saved, but sad also that the consultant is now having to live with the decision of "not pushing for a p.m", she didn't know or suspect a serial killer was on the loose
It just makes me more convinced in a way of LL's guilt
I was tempted to post that the other day as Echo Chambers aren't healthy, that's why I like this thread, I enjoy heard opposing views because I think on a whole it keeps you more balanced!
That's why seldom ignore people on tattle too!
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No Im not saying she was negligent in treating the baby or giving care, never in my comments above did I say that, I said that it was negligence with agreeing to record the cause of death as a NEC. That and only that I was referring to. The consultant said on the stand it was a mistake. In my opinion it was a big mistake bordering on negligence. I agree I do have sympathy for her and even though I think that decision was negligent I don’t think it was done on purpose. Of course it weren’t - it’s not like they knew a killer was on the ward and was covering it up. The problem we are going to see is Ben Meyers is going to use these mistakes to his full advantage. I just hope a killer dont walk free because of it.I agree with a lot of that but I’d say too that her mistake didn’t cause the babies decline and death. Imo it only meant the real reason of it couldn’t be proven sooner. That unfortunately has massive implications, deaths allowed to continue. If anyone thinks that a hospital is better off having a serial killer explain a rise in deaths instead of admitting negligence - here is the reason why that is totally illogical. I know she made a huge mistake, but she didn’t kill that baby or the others, I just also feel huge empathy for her. I hope she has support - I would be a suicide risk I think
12 months ago my mother in law was told she had terminal espogygus cancer and had months to live. Turns out this was wrong & she had another medical condition that yes is serious but not terminal. I understand mistakes happen. Maybe not on purpose but its still negligence regardless.
Would these Fb searches if done for that reason suggest her guilt then? Im just wondering why she would she look them up for this reason if she hadn’t done anything wrong?
I’m interested in your view. So when you speak about the negligent camp do you mean everyone as a collective? Certain people? Or Lucy being negligent?
As in do you think many peoples negligence has resulted in these deaths? Or 1 persons?
I definitely agree that the hospital itself hasn’t acted correctly, I also agree that things have been missed that shouldn’t have been & things like PMs should have been insisted on. I’m just not sure I can agree that the out of the blue crashes are due to negligence and not deliberate acts
Almost all of the points you've made I have also thought previously and seen in the way you have. Unfortunately we don't know much about her personality, what other people thought of her, whether she was a know all, egotistical, a jealous person and if we knew the answers to these things it would really help to understand her better.View attachment 1734644
2. She seems awkward, childish and bratty. She always wanted her own way (to be in nursery 1) and was difficult to control. She did as she pleased despite being told by senior staff to stay in a particular room and to stay away from grieving parents. The woman that people humour to keep the peace. Probably couldn’t find a man
3. I’d say she had mental instability in the way she coped with each death. Saying how upset they made her feel, how she needed time off with mum and dad. Acted like a spoilt child when she didn’t get the designated baby she wanted.
4. Made in appropriate comments regarding predicted death. ‘He’s not going to leave here alive is he?’. She also told Baby Cs mum that he would die - she was surprised this news came from a nurse and not a doctor.
5. Comments ‘I’m not covering your shift again’ and everyone saying she was having bad luck would fall under being jinxed for me. Remember some colleagues said she was having a bad run right at the beginning too.
6. She was like The News of The World spreading the news that the babies had died. She would tell multiple colleagues, her mum, she kept the conversation going or striked another one up about their deaths when fobbed off by others.
7. What do I need to say? Bingo. She was present every time.
8. Trust me I’m a nurse. Accepted she was ‘an amazing nurse’ when told by others. Always wanted to be looking after the most poorly babies - she didn’t like it when ‘the new girl’ trumped her.
9. She fobbed colleague off regarding the deaths. She always planted seeds of causes. When police questioned her she would change her recollection or later claim to have no memory.
10. She must have been mainly on night shift due to then switching her pattern.
11. There has been one mentioned of the support given at another hospital she worked at but we don’t know the details.
13. Staff had suspicions. Parents were made to feel uncomfortable by her presence.
14. Me Me ME ME ME.
15. I can imagine she was overbearing over her designated babies. I think failing to call for help comes under this section.
16. Hangs around after the death. We don’t know if she heavily involved herself in any investigations but she didn’t raise her concerns at any point that we know off.
18. Liar.
20. Unable to listen to senior nurses orders. Was undergoing a grievance.
It annoys me that by not taking the stand (I'm assuming she won't) that Letby gets to avoid this kind of treatment but the parents and her colleagues who are not on trial are put up on the stand, ripped apart and to some extent, vilified.
I’m so sorry to hear that, it’s so understandable, and for the babies parents too.I'm so sorry about that and I get you and it's a difficult one...I know with my loved one, we had no choice as such...and it broke me at the time...I didn't want him to be put through that...and I'm sure the baby's parents wouldn't want that either!
It just shocked me to read that she more or less " assumed" it was NEC but in same tone saying she didn't expect hom to deteriorate in that way.
It's just heartbreaking to think the other babies may have been potentially saved, but sad also that the consultant is now having to live with the decision of "not pushing for a p.m", she didn't know or suspect a serial killer was on the loose
It just makes me more convinced in a way of LL's guilt
I had no choice with my mum, which in someways makes it easier as you don’t have to make the decision. I knew my mum wouldn’t have minded, as such, as she would have viewed her body as just a shell, as I do.
Yes, the guilt these staff must be carrying
As for LL, well, she was getting away with it.
Just seen Judith is tweeting today also
So in regards to 'tolerance levels' - what I mean by that is if you are entrenched in a situation constantly, your threshold naturally moves depending on what you are dealing with. So for example, I work with people who can become very violent, very quickly. And by that I mean putting heads through windows, throwing chairs/desks, running into traffic etc. So in the course of my job if someone says that they have witnessed violence and then go on to say someone shoved someone, I almost disregard it because my tolerance level doesn't recognise that as violence. Does that make sense?I’m interested in your view. So when you speak about the negligent camp do you mean everyone as a collective? Certain people? Or Lucy being negligent?
As in do you think many peoples negligence has resulted in these deaths? Or 1 persons?
I definitely agree that the hospital itself hasn’t acted correctly, I also agree that things have been missed that shouldn’t have been & things like PMs should have been insisted on. I’m just not sure I can agree that the out of the blue crashes are due to negligence and not deliberate acts
To me, this talk of 'unexpected crashes' is bordering on the tolerance level of what they would normally expect to happen to these babies. You can't know what you don't know.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is I wonder if they assumed the babies were better than they actually were, and didn't treat accordingly, so when they 'crashed' it was almost a bit like 'woah, what happened there', but actually, it had been happening all along and they didn't see it.
Sorry my intention wasn’t to make it sound like that is what you suggested at all, it was poorly written on my part! I was trying to say that to your points, I would add that her decision wasn’t the cause of the problems for baby E. I agree, BM will be able to create a lot of reasonable doubt because of this and it is incredibly frustrating to me because this baby was so clearly well before Letby’s involvement. It should be one of the strongest cases for the prosecution because of that and the witness statements, documentation on baby before Letby’s shift etc. Let’s see what the expert witnesses say because I feel confident they will be able to add further proof that it wasn’t yet another freak bad luck occasion for Letby.
It deffo has felt at times as if it’s the doctors and nurses that are on trial rather than LL
That's an interesting stance because by proxy, they were a team, therefore potentially decisions that were made by the team could have led to the disastrous outcomes? It's not that they are on trial per se, but they are part of a much bigger picture so they can't just all be assumed to completely innocent/without any part to play?It deffo has felt at times as if it’s the doctors and nurses that are on trial rather than LL
If Letby was very often the last one to give cares, only one in the room or the designated nurse, should she have been the one to notice more so than others? If the mums account is right, she didn’t make anyone know about the first lot of blood in this baby’s case.
Yes this makes sense how you’ve explained it. It is something I’ve considered definitely. I guess also as a lay person, I’ve no experience with neonates, I was under the impression the deaths would be higher as “standard” but I guess one thing I’ve learned from this trial & threads is it’s actually rare for neonates not to make it.
I’m not saying there isn’t an element of what you’ve explained, I guess it would be natural in any line of work - you have your own threshold don’t you. It will be interesting to hear what/if any medical experts the defence have and what their views are definitely.
I’m just finding it hard to dismiss the multitude of people, drs, nurses, consultants, parents, midwives & the suspect them self all agreeing the collapses & deaths were unexpected
The point of my me rail was that, although the Drs were ‘puzzled’ by, and wanted answers about, the course my ex-husbands demise took, and requested a pm it wasn’t pursued as foul play wasn’t suspected.
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See there's questions around that too - again I feel like the prosecution have given out this scenario that seems very sensationalist but actually may not be the case. Example being when the nurse made a statement of how she was sitting with LL at the station when one of the babies started to deteriorate (apologies, I cannot remember what baby), but the prosecution have now said that nurses statement can't be relied on? Why not?
There was also another baby where it is in the other staffs statement that they 'shouted for LL to come and help'
I think I'd need to go through the list/Wiki again and pinpoint that further because it's definitely something worth clarifying.
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