If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable...I've been reading that this morning
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They really couldn't understand what was wrong with this poor baby
Well exactly. I take the red flags list with a pinch of salt.
I know, sounds terrible. We don’t know yet if the Consultant qualified her statement to the Coroner in some way. I suppose if you’re not suspecting foul play, never mind looking for it?
Definitely, in hindsight, things could have been stopped a lot sooner.
I think at the time she is trying to account for the bleeding and give a plausible explanation when there really wasn’t one and at no point at all would she consider that a nurse had caused it. I agree that it is an utterly indefensible mistake on her part. If it is NEC - it’s another time when a baby dies of a condition that is not presenting as it usually would, more rapidly than usual and beginning when Letby takes care. That could happen in high risk babies but the statistical chances for me would be extremely slim to happen for Letby so often. I don’t think it is likely to happen so often and to one person. I can totally understand why somebody could have reasonable doubt after this though
Did the collapses not follow her from night to day? I think by the day shift ones her ‘urges’ were really getting out of control, if guilty. IMO, it really would be easier at night.
I think the reason for it , is on Facebook , there is perhaps a more limited intellect. I mean this in no way, shape or form as being rude or condescending.
I never interact with the Facebook groups, I simply observe what’s being said.
but if ‘the insulin machine killed then’ is now the narrative, we’re well and truly scraping the barrel.
PAndO
I never interact with the Facebook groups, I simply observe what’s being said.
but if ‘the insulin machine killed then’ is now the narrative, we’re well and truly scraping the barrel.
PAndO
I know, but she has just also said "his deterioration was well outside what we woukd expect"I think at the time she is trying to account for the bleeding and give a plausible explanation when there really wasn’t one and at no point at all would she consider that a nurse had caused it. I agree that it is an utterly indefensible mistake on her part. If it is NEC - it’s another time when a baby dies of a condition that is not presenting as it usually would, more rapidly than usual and beginning when Letby takes care. That could happen in high risk babies but the statistical chances for me would be extremely slim to happen for Letby so often. I don’t think it is likely to happen so often and to one person. I can totally understand why somebody could have reasonable doubt after this though
Not saying she should have assumed there is a serial killer on the loose, but, as a consultant I would have thought, that as such she would not just write it off as NEC?
I know she has also said she didn't want to cause the parent's more distress...but blimey, it has freaked me out a little to think, that IF a p.m had been done then just maybe other babies could have been saved
( If it could have been proved that the baby died by being intentionally harmed)I actually think the consultant standing up today to admit she got it wrong, didn’t think about it at the time & wished she’d have pushed for a PM is huge tbh. I really don’t think she’d do that, risking her entire career, unless she was sure she did in fact miss something that could have suggested deliberate cause of death. I can imagine BM will go to town on her though.
Also to the person that asked whether the police interviews would be released? My honest answer is that I don’t know but don’t think they would be. I was more hoping we’d hear them word for word in court at some point.
Also to the person that asked whether the police interviews would be released? My honest answer is that I don’t know but don’t think they would be. I was more hoping we’d hear them word for word in court at some point.
I think lots on the fb groups have their own mindsets and agendas and that’s what they’re pushing. It’s only a subset of fb users that will be following this trial. The rest, me included, will still be merrily post holiday snaps etc.
Yes it’s obviously a big mistake on her part but it does disprove to me that she was at all influenced by police to assume harm because she is giving an account that lays some blame in her role in this at her feet and being honest. Absolutely nobody at the hospital involved in this is coming out better. I believe she would have never thought about somebody causing a baby to lose that much blood, it likely never crossed her mind once.
Hi everyone, I've been lurking since the start! I just wanted to clarify re night & day shifts - I am on the periphery of neonatal units (not clinical) so I have some kind of experience here. Night shifts are a bit like marmite in our place, some love them, some hate them. For night shifts, you get an uplift in pay for unsociable hours, so this is a big bonus to some, maybe Lucy, being a young person with a mortgage, liked the extra monetary aspect from them? Obviously nights are quieter as well, so it would have provided more opportunities for harming babies, as some of you have already said.
I am of the opinion that moving her to days, was more a concern about her performance, rather than because she was suspected of harming babies. A few others have mentioned this previously, but day shifts have more staff on and more opportunities for supervision. I guess they moved her to clerical duties because they were still concerned about her performance, IMO this might have been what her grievance was about.
It is incredibly hard to sack someone in the NHS (we have someone on our team who has been through loads of disciplinaries, missed shifts, is generally rude and cantankerous to everyone and they are still there) hence all the moving about and changing shifts. Plus why would your mind automatically go to "she's obviously harming them", you would tend to believe she was incompetent first!
I was initially on the fence, but now the more we hear, the more guilty she sounds.
I am of the opinion that moving her to days, was more a concern about her performance, rather than because she was suspected of harming babies. A few others have mentioned this previously, but day shifts have more staff on and more opportunities for supervision. I guess they moved her to clerical duties because they were still concerned about her performance, IMO this might have been what her grievance was about.
It is incredibly hard to sack someone in the NHS (we have someone on our team who has been through loads of disciplinaries, missed shifts, is generally rude and cantankerous to everyone and they are still there) hence all the moving about and changing shifts. Plus why would your mind automatically go to "she's obviously harming them", you would tend to believe she was incompetent first!
I was initially on the fence, but now the more we hear, the more guilty she sounds.
Yes i agree but even if not suspecting foul play, she's said the deterioration is beyond what she would expect...so I'm still surprised a p.m wasn't done, but I'm an adult nurse and only going off my experience both as a nurse and personal.. that an " unexpected death" which I feel she is really basically saying ( or maybe I'm misinterpreting her)would usually result in post mortem.
So..what I'm saying is, even if foul play not expected..could she or the events have stopped right there or would she have still carried on blasé?( if she is guilty!)
But yes ...hindsight and all that
The Facebook users are setting a dangerous precedent.
- Man gives Wife a black eye, nobody saw him do it, she could have had a secret nose job or Done it herself
- New serial killer or copycat killer. Ah, well, nobody saw them do it, offer up silly excuses and they’ll walk free
why does Lucy have such militant defenders? Am I really missing something???
pando
- Man gives Wife a black eye, nobody saw him do it, she could have had a secret nose job or Done it herself
- New serial killer or copycat killer. Ah, well, nobody saw them do it, offer up silly excuses and they’ll walk free
why does Lucy have such militant defenders? Am I really missing something???
pando
Whilst I have said what I've said re the consultant's evidence ..I do agree and also agree it must have taken guts to say what she has today...
Ive just read that open mouthed, If she knew all that and that this little precious baby deteriorated very quickly and totally opposite to what a NEC would present as - then why the hell did she agree with the coroner to record the cause of death as a NEC. I’m sorry but this is literally in my opinion this is total negligence. There’s innocent mistakes in all jobs. This was a big rooster up for a experienced consultant. A big rooster up that prevented a murderer being stopped earlier.
You ain’t missing anything, This is shocking and it’s giving the defense now a hook through which to cast doubt in the minds of the jurors.
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Because she's innocent until proven guilty.
But I agree, the Facebook groups are mental and I don't entertain in that. I don't like an echo chamber, I prefer a balanced discussion.
It also must be extremely horrible to see the parents as distraught as they were, so close to taking their baby home whom they had no reason to think wouldn’t make it and then start insisting they have a PM when although the situation didn’t fit completely, NEC is the closest thing she could use to explain it. Definitely a huge huge mistake on her part but how much easier would it be for her to have stood up in court & stood by her decision? Which would have made her look better job wise
I agree with a lot of that but I’d say too that her mistake didn’t cause the babies decline and death. Imo it only meant the real reason of it couldn’t be proven sooner. That unfortunately has massive implications, deaths allowed to continue. If anyone thinks that a hospital is better off having a serial killer explain a rise in deaths instead of admitting negligence - here is the reason why that is totally illogical. I know she made a huge mistake, but she didn’t kill that baby or the others, I just also feel huge empathy for her. I hope she has support - I would be a suicide risk I think
it’s such an awful thing to have to reconcile with for a lot of them that did miss signs.- Status