I was reading this last night. There’s lots of interesting articles in the references section.I noticed there is now a page on Wikipedia, and LL will be 33 in January, it has her date of birth. (As we thought in previous threads she was born late '89 or early '90 based on a 21st birthday press announcement from family).
Lucy Letby - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Was thinking the other day, she is potentially another serial killer from Hertfordshire, like Fred West. No offence to anyone from Herefordshire, but if found guilty at least several victims like him. No comparing the two cases, both situations are barbaric in different ways, but what are the chances of two being from the same county.
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I agree with how patterns and excess deaths weren’t picked up by coroner either, do you mean unexpected death here tho? “So far each baby has been an expected death”. I’m only asking this as I think it’s maybe a typo but just making sure I’m not picking you up wrong?
I’ve just googled & found this which I’m not sure does fit Baby E i need to go back & look -
NEC can be difficult for doctors to diagnose. But there are signs that a baby can show if they are becoming unwell with NEC. Doctors are likely to identify these signs in your baby on the neonatal unit.
Signs of NEC in your baby can include general signs of being unwell or fighting an infection, such as:
a fast heart rate
low blood pressure
irregular, fast, or slow and shallow breathing
a high, low or quickly changing temperature.
In some cases, more specific signs may develop, which may include:
not feeding as usual
blood in their stools (poo)
a painful, swollen or discoloured tummy
being sick (vomiting), especially if they are vomiting green liquid (bile)
having a large volume of green fluid, or blood coming back up your baby’s NG tube (if they are being fed by a tube).
If doctors think that your baby may have NEC, they will perform X-rays and blood tests. However, it can be hard to know if these signs are caused by NEC or other conditions.
I personally love Wikipedia, but the only thing to be wary with Wikipedia is, it can be edited by anyone. We were always constantly told this in uni, for this reason we could never use it in referencing etc. Also imagine if the FB huns were the ones doing the editingI noticed there is now a page on Wikipedia, and LL will be 33 in January, it has her date of birth. (As we thought in previous threads she was born late '89 or early '90 based on a 21st birthday press announcement from family).
Lucy Letby - Wikipedia
Was thinking the other day, she is potentially another serial killer from Hertfordshire, like Fred West. No offence to anyone from Herefordshire, but if found guilty at least several victims like him. No comparing the two cases, both situations are barbaric in different ways, but what are the chances of two being from the same county.
not saying anything on there is wrong or anything like that though
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Yes - Sorry. I meant unexpected. Too late for me to edit.
From the wiki, the only thing that suggests NEC is the blood but LL allegedly told mum this was from the feeing tube placement. I’m not sure if I’ve missed any of the other medical evidence though. Doesn’t appear the insulin levels are a sign of NEC.
Also, the defence don’t offer an explanation for cause of death for baby E. If they thought it was NEC would they not say that & present that? I appreciate they could do later but I would have thought they’d have said it already?
Also, the defence don’t offer an explanation for cause of death for baby E. If they thought it was NEC would they not say that & present that? I appreciate they could do later but I would have thought they’d have said it already?
I’m not medical at all, but it seems the consultant then said she didn’t think it was NEC after all this morning. Wonder is this why BM was making such a big deal yesterday about the blood sugar readingMy head is in the shed today!!!
Please....i forget who are the ones with nicu experience on here so apologies, but please help me out
I know nothing about neonatal care, literally nothing.
I've just been reading the only sensible thread I've seen on one of the FB group and an experienced nicu nurse has been posting for the past couple of days around baby E.
She was convinced yesterday that baby E was developing NEC, given his blood gas readings and high blood sugar of over 18 ...I know this is high blood sugar in an adult never mind a premature baby, but didn't get the significance of it until she's explained it.
I don't know why, but I didn't realise NEC could cause the symptoms of the " crash" as with baby E. I knew it was dangerous/life threatening.. but..didn't know it could cause bleeding like this?
I've looked at statements on wiki from medical experts and they don't mention NEC
Is she talking tit? Have the medics missed the signs of NEC, could this have caused the major bleed in baby E?
I need educating, my head has gone completely!!
posted what the journalists reported about NEC today 
I'm not meaning this to be as simplistic as it's probably going to come across.
The consultant is presented with a baby who has sadly passed away. She discusses it with the Coroner and agrees to register the death as NEC (and has reasons for doing so). She shares this with the parents. She passively allows them to refuse a PM. This goes on record for however many years after that.
LL is revealed as a suspect and that this particular baby is potentially a murder victim. Only now the consultant changes her mind?
If that's not confirmation bias in a nutshell then....what is?
The consultant is presented with a baby who has sadly passed away. She discusses it with the Coroner and agrees to register the death as NEC (and has reasons for doing so). She shares this with the parents. She passively allows them to refuse a PM. This goes on record for however many years after that.
LL is revealed as a suspect and that this particular baby is potentially a murder victim. Only now the consultant changes her mind?
If that's not confirmation bias in a nutshell then....what is?
Must have a nosy at these later
There always could be the potential for confirmation bias in medicine (and any science). Nothing is concrete.
Further evidence has come to light since the deaths that have changed the original diagnosis. I don’t see what the issue is? Although I can see how it may throw conspiracy-theory-loving-she’s-innocent-no-matter-what people into a tailspin.
Another suggestion on the Facebook group is that they’ve got the notes mixed up. So now the notes have done it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Further evidence has come to light since the deaths that have changed the original diagnosis. I don’t see what the issue is? Although I can see how it may throw conspiracy-theory-loving-she’s-innocent-no-matter-what people into a tailspin.
Another suggestion on the Facebook group is that they’ve got the notes mixed up. So now the notes have done it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But wouldn’t that be the same for most of us on here? As in we’re all looking at the information presented & making an assumption on her guilt but as more evidence comes to light these are changing (either getting stronger on one side or flipping). I wouldn’t say it’s confirmation bias.
You make a decision based on information available to you.
She may have had a niggle it wasn’t right but had no other explanation so went with the closest one without actually looking massively into the alternatives. Or maybe she did but felt out on a limb to suggest something wasn’t right & went with the coroner?
Maybe this is one of those decisions that always felt “off” to her but it was too late to re look at it.
Or I guess yes, it could be confirmation bias but I don’t personally see it as that
This is another medic that has gone back on decisions based on 'hindsight' / knowledge that someone has been charged though. It feels 'off' and it's not based on conspiracy theories or 'innocent at all costs', I just find it absolutely incredible that such huge decisions were made at the time if there was any inclination that it wasn't 100%.
Obviously my real sympathy is with the parents that if LL did do this they didn’t find out sooner and the later victims that could have been prevented.cannot imagine
but I can’t help but have empathy for this dr. She will carry this with her for life.
Did these consultants and registrars etc not communicate? There’s been different doctors at the collapses with pretty much all of them saying they hadn’t seen the skin discolourations before. Surely they would speak to each other about it?
I don’t see a problem with charging their mind in hindsight.
I don’t see a problem with charging their mind in hindsight.
I see what you mean, but I interpret it as the Prosecution clearly believe this Drs evidence in admitting she made an error about the cause of death and should have pushed for a PM makes a significant difference to how Child E evidently died and that it would have been found to be at the hands of LL. I agree with pp’s that this doctor coming forward to admit she got this wrong is a big admission for a professional and to me evidences there’s no self preservation here
I see where you are coming from but by that logic this would apply across healthcare, and it doesn't.
The doctor 'changing her mind' well of course, in hindsight they recognise that a post mortem would have been beneficial- they're not often done on neonates.
One of my twins had NEC. She didn't have high blood sugars nor a unexpected crash like Baby E. She didn't bleed. All she had was dirty aspirates through her NG tube from undigested milk and a tummy that was so swollen she looked pregnant herself. She was uncomfortable and screaming in pain.My head is in the shed today!!!
Please....i forget who are the ones with nicu experience on here so apologies, but please help me out
I know nothing about neonatal care, literally nothing.
I've just been reading the only sensible thread I've seen on one of the FB group and an experienced nicu nurse has been posting for the past couple of days around baby E.
She was convinced yesterday that baby E was developing NEC, given his blood gas readings and high blood sugar of over 18 ...I know this is high blood sugar in an adult never mind a premature baby, but didn't get the significance of it until she's explained it.
I don't know why, but I didn't realise NEC could cause the symptoms of the " crash" as with baby E. I knew it was dangerous/life threatening.. but..didn't know it could cause bleeding like this?
I've looked at statements on wiki from medical experts and they don't mention NEC
Is she talking tit? Have the medics missed the signs of NEC, could this have caused the major bleed in baby E?
I need educating, my head has gone completely!!
Ok so as devils advocate - what's different about her practice then and now? As back then she was quite happy to declare NEC as the cause of death to these devastated parents, to agree with the coroner, to list reasons why the babies death fit with that theory. There would have been numerous, numerous conversations around the death and so if at ANY point she didn't feel 100%, why didn't she speak up then? Why didn't she say no, we must push for a PM because this is just off?
She'd never opened her bowels and the blockage was visible on an xray.
Are NEC symptoms a sliding scale do you know?
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