Lucy Letby Case #15

[OldBlondie]

You guys must read different threads to me! I've been here from the start and I've read every post and I think in the most part this thread is really respectful, there's no pile-ons, no-one is called out for what they believe. So I don't really understand the apologising and checking we're all still friends vibe. Maybe that's just me .

Just to backtrack to the post-it note; I understand that it is interesting, but as far as I know, even a signed confession cannot be relied on in court. People have confessed to all kinds of things they haven't done, for whatever reason, and the post-it note can be read any which way, so I don't really know what it adds to the case in a legal sense.

I do feel some people struggle with LL being guilty because there are no actual witnesses to her doing what she's accused of - there's no smoking gun. Some people struggle with the concept of reasonable doubt and consider every other possibility in an effort to explain so much coincidence that points to LL being guilty.

There may have been sub-optimal care at times for these babies, but this did not cause their deaths. It just seems strange to me that some posters are more willing to think poor practice caused their deaths rather than LL.
I would want to feel safe in hospital, so I don't understand that negligence and poor practice are seen as being a preferable, more acceptable, reason for their deaths?

ETA; grief guys, I see things have got a bit heated in the past 30mins Calm down, put the kettle on. We are on a gossip thread, we're not on the jury, it's ok to disagree.
In any case, I have a hangover and it's brunch o'clock, gotta put the washing on too, laters

Sorry I’m just catching up now, when the thread is trying to move past whatever has been going on today. Off to put the kettle on and come back and move firmly on

Can you all just stop?? Lol. We’re all here because we’re interested in the case, not because we’re interested in peoples interpretations of others posts If someone offends you - hit the ignore button and move on ????

Sorry I’m literally only just catching up now, so a bit behind. Promise I’ll say no more and just move on now, if anyone thinks I’m trying to keep this going I’m not, I’m literally only catching up from the last few pages. But I’ve firmly moved on and no more posts from me concerning anything from this morning

 

[avabella]

There was a part of that statement that said she was aware of what was being said about her, I'm sure? Would she have known the extent of the allegations? I'm not sure how police investigations work or what they tell suspects?

 

[PumpkinxQueen]

NPD comes in different forms. My ex was a covert narcissist, he seemed almost shy, quiet & reserved around others. It isn’t always the big attention grandiose Narc we think of! But I agree it’s unlikely she is that. She definitely has many many different traits from many personality disorders, though, but I’m sure most ‘sane’ people do too!

 

[PumpkinxQueen]

Do you reckon she has more notes?

Possibly! The prosecution will already have them, if so. Like only a couple of random sticky notes released so far? Gottttta be more

 

[musiclover90]

I've also found these Facebook searches weird. The babies have lived for such a short time she's not really built up a relationship with the families and doing FB searches in some cases months after the deaths and even on Christmas morning in the early hours and then saying she cannot remember. All this sounds really very odd.

I didn't know she was looking in the early hours...I was gonna defend the FB Christmas thing because I imagine she could just be very very bored at Christmas. When you don't have a big family there is nothing to do all day. But I didn't know what time she was on there.

 

[riddleme89]

I think it was said previously that the designated nurse would do these things and if parents didn’t want a box it would be kept for when they were ready.

It says consent so they must have to have consent first . usually you don’t do them unless family want them doing . X

 

[OldBlondie]

Sorry but 60+% of people think she’s guilty on these threads. I don’t think it’s a hostile place to share opposite opinion but the majority here think she’s guilty so it’ll maybe feel that way at times? If you’re somebody that looks at this and is picking out all the detail and posting why you feel convinced that’s fine imo but you can’t get upset if others don’t see it how you do. If you want to post that you just have a feeling she can’t be guilty that’s fine to post too but you can’t get upset by people posting their details.
I personally would love to hear a blow by blow account of each baby and the added evidence of police interview and social media stuff and how she’s innocent because even the defence didn’t fancy doing that in the opening statement. I’ve always said I think it would be very hard and very clunky to do by the time you’re near the end of the alphabet but I’d be more than happy to read one. If you share it though you’ve got to remember how many people here have voted guilty and not get upset by the replies which I doubt would be horrible but there’d be a lot of people disagreeing That’s just the nature of the split in opinion though. Personally I’d rather read how people reached their conclusion in detail than “I just think x” “it’s just bullshit” or explain away one baby at a time because of course that is a million times easier to do and this type of crime is built on a pattern of evidence. Also, please don’t make me go back to The Year BF (Before Fella) cos then I’m just back to being a cunt again

Thank you for this, you always manage to post what some are trying to say, and in a really well presented way. I try and not reply to something I disagree with as I don’t want an argument or someone to feel attacked, so I think I’ll limit what I comment on even further now. Really glad you posted this

 

[PumpkinxQueen]

Forgive me if it’s been mentioned - child H “At 5.21am, Letby recorded a conversation between herself, the attending doctor, and Child H's parents.” - Like recorded it on her phone???? Eh

* Edited to add - If you haven’t figured out, I’m still making my way through the encyclopedia of LL *

 

[OldBlondie]

I can totally see her wearing Crocs and a sarong in Ibiza!

Spat my cuppa tea out at that one

 

[OldBlondie]

Re the note – Google say it was found after her 2018 arrest, so the first arrest, which makes it seem like she wrote it before her arrest and subsequently before any suspicions were raised

* Edited to say - Ok so there was suspicions hence she was put on clerical duties, before her arrest?? Wtf? Lol. I NEED MORE NOTES *

Certainly before Police suspicions were raised anyway

 

[candyland_]

View attachment 1728713


They searched her house after 1st arrest, this was when note was found. She was subsequently arrested again after this, but not sure if house was searched again after 2nd arrest

Thanks for sharing.

 

[PenelopeTitsDrop]

I’m just reading about Child E before we hear about them tomorrow.
Why did she make false notes and saying things happened when they didn’t?

Arse covering. Some wards do do it. It's awful and should never happen, but it does on bad wards.

 

[OldBlondie]

Hi fella or not Fella however we’re doing this shit now I’ve missed your posts! I take your points about the experts, I just disagree with it on the whole. I also see what you’re saying about believe parent accounts or not (I’m not going to argue the point on how I feel it’s different).. I just feel that’s the same frustration I feel when people say the Facebook searching was normal and then proceed to give an example of their own facebooking that’s totally different to LLs like unless everyone died just after you were in a room with them it’s just not the same. You might disagree with me on that, as many others do. Sometimes the frustration bubbles over slightly doesn’t it but I hope you don’t take it personally and I don’t either
@slingo16 I appreciate your post! I know I’ve definitely been abrupt/frustrated with your theories at times but I would never think or want you not to post and again it’s never personal. I’m also not going to say yes great idea if I don’t think it is as I’m sure you wouldn’t to me either!

You really are in my head, exactly word for word, although you always make the points far more well than I ever could and your posts are clear and concise

 

[StatusWoe]

Remember the great chicken washing vs arse washing debate which pretty much caused the thread to implode?

No clue what you're referring to, but this is hilarious.

Yeah cos now we have the hilarity of an overused joke and the pettiness of knowing we're pissing off some not nice fellas.

My only complaint about fella is that it causes Rihanna's 'Umbrella' to get stuck in my head. The lyrics get changed from ella to fella, of course.

The Nice Fellas on a night out in Ibiza.

 

[avabella]

Only on page 2 of the thread, but wanted to weigh in on this.

I don't find it hard to believe someone could deliberately hurt babies. I believe these crimes are possible because they've happened before. Bev Allitt's case was slightly before my time, but I do remember the news about Harold Shipman. It's a terrible fact that some doctors/nurses are killers. Having said that, I'd assume (& hope!) it's extremely rare. The number of 'good' nurses will always outweigh the number of bad. It'll always be more common for a patient to die due to medical negligence than murder. From this perspective, it's still shocking because of the rarity of these crimes. I didn't expect to see another trial like Harold Shipman's in my lifetime, so I do understand why people have expressed shock.

When people talk about disbelief, I also think they're referring to their total incomprehension of the psychology behind these crimes. ''How could anyone hurt a baby?'' is a reasonable question and it's not one I can answer. It goes against all instincts.

To condense this waffle into a few sentences: I believe the crime is possible because it's happened before. That's a fact. But I'm still shocked that this nurse, with her girl-next-door energy, is accused of murdering newborn babies. I think both of those feelings can coexist.

Brilliant summing up, exactly how I feel too.

 

[OldBlondie]

I honestly couldn’t care less what her parents are going through. They could well be the cause of what a psycho she is. We just don’t know yet.

Me either tbh, just giving my view on them being in court and they might be questioning themselves. God knows what her childhood was actually like, and as you say for all we know they could have contributed to this, not saying they did. We just don’t know

It says consent so they must have to have consent first . usually you don’t do them unless family want them doing . X

Especially after she claimed in her txt for baby C she had to “persuade” the parents to get the foot and handprints done

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

My aplogies for jumping in and answering, and I'm not a maternity worker but the Kent document illustrates the culture of the NHS in some places and the lack of ability to learn, safeguard, report concerns and the often toxic atmosphere between both teams, learning and different specialities.

Please don’t apologise fella, (see I can integrate well when I turn up to a thread that’s already 15 deep) that was so useful right I understand now, I’m lacking on sleep so that’s my excuse but I am a bit slow on the uptake sometimes!
It’s a lose lose situation either way it’s awful to think there are people working in a position of trust so to speak that would behave in the way she has been accused, yet it absolutely abysmal to read how some trusts operate, I work in the health & safety sector so it’s baffling how the same “accidents” kept happening without proper review until far too late.

So now you’ve explained this and I can see why people are having doubts, is the belief from those unsure etc that she has basically been thrown under the bus to save the asses of the higher up people at the trust?

I feel sick as both situations are truly horrific, those poor little souls - I really hope that the parents get some closure or answers after waiting for so long but I’m not sure if we will.

 

[MmmB777]

This made me howl! Jeez I hope it was after they were caught, or it sounds like your family might have done security for a serial killer awards ceremony or something

Haha no they were definitely already caught! Still wouldn’t like to be the one in a room with them though

 

[OldBlondie]

Ya see that's it, for me, if she was innocent, she had no need to write this note. To me she only wrote it and had these thoughts because she knew she was guilty and that they were going to get her.

Yes that’s exactly it, well my thoughts also I should say

 

[PumpkinxQueen]

I understand why a lot aren’t sold on some of the medical evidence. But I can’t get my head round any of the circumstantial evidence not being seen as anything but sinister, there’s just too much. The handover notes for babies that aren’t hers, and there’s a drugs list for one of the babies also found at her home, and the prosecution said lots of medical notes that should not have left the hospital, she shouldn’t have had them, and still had them 3 years later. To me they’re trophies. Although I know some see innocent bits like the Fb searches, but these aren’t all isolated they’re an overall pattern, and when you look at it as a whole it doesn’t make sense as any innocent actions of, at best, an inappropriate attention seeking pathological liar worlds unluckiest nurse that’s obsessed with parents, doesn’t respect boundaries, gives opposite accounts than what the parents do and gives them no privacy. And at worst a serial killer that is obsessed with parents and their grief from a result of her actions. She seems to actually enjoy hurting the babies as time goes on. I’ve no idea what her motive is, could be many already been discussed. The only one ruled out for me is angel of mercy as she was physically starting to hurt then, rather than just put them to sleep as such


Some have interpreted the note to fit in with the theory she killed them cos she didn’t get her own way, that she wasn’t deemed good enough. So I can see why nearly everyone has a slightly different take on what the note means. I don’t think it reads like an innocent person has wrote it for the same reasons as you. But I’ll fully accept we’ve no idea for sure what she means in it, this is why I hope prosecution give some kind of theory they think for this and her behaviour in general. Anyone know would/could a forensic psychologist give evidence on possible motive?

They could give a brief possible motive, I’d think. I’m basing that on diagnosis of mass shooters in the US after they’ve killed themselves (and subsequent readings from their journals etc) Otherwise, she’d need to sit with them and be evaluated. Someone with more knowledge will know more!