Lucy Letby Case #15

[Deeznutslol]

See that’s what makes it more interesting to me because serial killers quite often do this at the point of no turning back and keep incriminating stuff, even bodies! It is a feature of HCSK to make partial confessions, written confessions and then retract them. Doesn’t prove anything on its own of course. I could go and write the same kind of note now and by chance my fella could cop it and I’d be in deep shit trying to come back from that. But if it was multiple incidents and multiple accusations and multiple deaths and I was there every time and also wrote that… that’s some bad luck.

Yeah that’s also true, I suppose keeping bodies is different for me though coz that’s like keeping trophies

 

[stardust1]

@OldBlondie @MmmB777 I wonder what her choice of bag would be

 

[OldBlondie]

So my cat got hit by a car (we think) but earlier on that day I had to clean her paws cause neighbour had painted their window sils & my nosy dickhead cat had walked on it, after she was cleaned up she sulked & went out to play nothing wrong with her. The little bugger returned home later limping. I second guessed myself & was thinking fuck was me cleaning her paws the cause of said limp? I didn’t protest I DID this, it was a fleeting thought & confirmed by the vet my mani/pedi skills on the cat were not the cause.

What I’m getting at is sure there was a moment where I thought oh man have I fucked up even if I had good intentions?

Perhaps if we find out more about her mental health/personality it may help more?

I appreciate your analogy, even though it’s nothing like this at all, sorry. And sorry but I find this absolutely ridiculous tbh, I’ve read on through about babies E-Q and this is a common theme with pretty much all of them. She claims at the time the parents are so upset in front of her that she needs time off, it’s so upsetting for her watching the parents as they’re so devastated, she even says she needs time off to help her deal with it, sends sinister cards to them, makes a big deal about how upset she is over babies that aren’t even her babies, searches them on Fb continually and on significant dates, says she’s so upset that her colleague actually suggests counselling, tells colleagues that she’s persuaded parents to do things, has made really inappropriate comments to parents, has barged in on parents privacy… but now claims not to remember these babies or the parents. How can she just forget ALL of that. I can’t see where you could possibly think there’s good intentions anywhere in that Sorry we are going to have to agree to disagree. I get that you don’t see her selective memory as particularly significant but I most certainly do

Wouldn’t the equivalent be her writing in a panic possible mistakes she made (especially as she’s often the last one there!), maybe it was my fault because of xyz, I’ve been so tired…
Not I’m evil. I did this. I killed then on purpose. I pay for it every day. I’m never going to have a family.

Think the OP was talking about the memory loss in police interviews, at least that’s what the reply to my post before this was about

 

[MmmB777]

I was talking about the thought process tbh, the anecdote about my cat was a light hearted example of apportioning blame on ourselves when it might not be correct. We don’t know her mental state, was it catastrophising? Was it the self indulgent ramblings of a very messed up confused person?

It’s alright I can read the room, nobody GAF about my cat, and my humour is indistinguishable, which hun is gonna proof read my posts from now on pls help a fella out.

I understood your story! You were saying you rack your brains first and blame yourself. I was just saying I think the wording would be different to I'm evil etc in my opinion. Hope that’s ok.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

A question for
those who think that if LL has a PD disorder it would have manifested in behaviours, or that she would not be able to function at the level she was, is that why you’re thinking that she is not guilty?
Or do you think she might be suffering from some other disorder, or none at all, and still be guilty?
I’m still confused!

 

[OldBlondie]

I’ve wondered this too. She could have taken extra footprints too but I think they would have said by now.

She could well of done and just got rid of them since, maybe this is why police were digging up garden, checking drains etc they maybe suspected she had this kind of stuff after investigating and hearing that she was involved in these memory boxes, and therefore realising she had plenty of opportunity to

Yet again, here we have people noticing.

The end of that message should say haemorrhage caused by me

 

[candyland_]

I’ve seen Baby I mentioned a few times - I’m off to recap over the wiki.

She was so upset her colleagues were telling her to seek therapy and take time off work! I can't see the denial or not remembering as anything other than an out and out lie tbh.

She apparently took time off after Baby D to ‘spend time with mum and dad’. We jump from June to August for Baby E so it would be interesting to know how long she was off for - I’ve got a funny feeling it was her first shift back like we’ve heard for other babies.

 

[Weeder]

Would this show on an X-ray/PM so easily dismissed by the prosecution or expert witnesses?

Honestly not sure, it's unlikely blood will show on xray as such, although it might appear as dark space. I'm only chatting ideas and thoughts fella. I am literally just wondering where they'll take it and trying to suggest some research and what's next for us fellas

 

[Hannah_204]

This is actually one of the details that makes me question her guilt. She came across as so studious and driven in her training. I'd have expected to see a more problematic record from when she was a student, i.e. struggling, slacking off, disciplinary issues, but so far it seems like the opposite.

This is the sort of thing that led me to think she was innocent at the beginning. I think maybe something changed for her. Could it just have been moving to live alone? Or maybe all the attention from being the face of the fundraising?

 

[MmmB777]

The thing with that is we just don’t know, as it’s not been reported. The police interviews could be read in a way that someone is hysterical and answering very short, almost non sensical answers because they’re so upset.
In the court I’d imagine she’d be well warned not to make any emotional outbursts and dependent on her frame of mind I wonder if she’d also be medicated.

I tend to agree we can’t be sure of her emotions or that what emotion she shows is indicative of a great deal because either way could be seen as g/ng but nothing so far has screamed at me that she’s upset in the slightest yet Could be wrong of course. Will the police that interviewed her and investigated give evidence? (sorry if that’s a stupid question!)

 

[OldBlondie]

That's court all over in my experience. Probably even worse in this case due to the sheer amount of work involved. I don't recall actually sitting down in court for longer than an hour or two at a time. It's all about the traipsing.


I agree. I'd like you to keep posting.
I do feel a little bit like some people feel like they led me by the nose to believe guilty. I'm a grown up, so am able to make my own mind up. I also think I could swing to NG or back to fence sitting following defence argument. I don't think there's much room for that here.
There are no winners. I think that's important to point out.

Also the medical witnesses so far aren't credible to me in part. I stick by that. I'd also like some understanding when I raise these witness issues. It's there in black and white and they're discussion points.

I'm keeping my emotions as light as possible here. I appreciate the jokes, but the sneering must stop.

Sorry I feel you’ve been dragged into this by me. I didn’t intend for this to turn into a whole carry on. I also worded what I was trying to say about your views badly. What I was meaning is that I knew you weren’t fully convinced of some of the medical evidence, and once you hear the medical evidence you need to that will help you erase the doubts you’ve left. Can’t remember how I worded it but that what I meant. Just it would clear up any doubt you may have on medical side of things. Equally if you hear something next week that makes you do a 180 that’s just fine too. Apologies again for bringing you into and wording what I meant wrongly

 

[OldBlondie]

Emotions are a weird thing though, not the same but when I used to work taking 999 calls, generally calm callers who said x is happening where always the worst calls; as in, the situation was the worst even though the caller was calm. Not sure how to properly explain it, but it was always odd to me as they're the ones you'd expect to be hysterical or whatever but they were super calm, if you had 2 callers both saying the same thing but one was screaming and crying and one was calm you just knew which would be worse (the response was the same though so didn't assume, just always turned out to be the case). The human mind has lots of mechanisms in when dealing with trauma etc it is fascinating. I don't think showing no emotion in super stressful situations suggests much really.

I completely get what you mean. Everyone acts differently to certain situations and when some would be calm others could be hysterical. Also BM will have advised her not to show any reaction or emotion in court. But we do know that in the past she’s allegedly shown emotion; from her texts to the colleague when she says she’s been so upset and hasn’t stopped crying. Not sure if she actually was crying then tho, as it’s just what she said, so might not have even been true anyway

 

[PenelopeTitsDrop]

Can you please point out specifically where you think I’ve been scathing and what wasn’t nice to read. It’s very hard to understand that viewpoint without any examples.

And I’ve not once said I would never believe someone no matter what they say when I ask them something. I’ve said I will take posts as opinion and not fact and happy to hear different takes on things. I don’t interpret that as saying ‘I don’t believe you’.

It’s pretty dangerous to just believe everything that is written on an anonymous forum. I’m sure some things are fact, some opinion, some things said will be inaccurate or incorrect no matter how good the intention, and some could be completely false and misleading. I thought it was a pretty standard thing to be cautious with what anonymous posters are stating as fact.

No. If you can't see that some things read badly in tone, that's for you to work on. You have done it to me today too.

Caution doesn't have to correlate with rudeness.

 

[Daisydunn15]

I do agree with this. I think it's because LL reminds me so much of a patient I nursed who had been diagnosed with psychopathy (it was just as ASPD was coming in as the new umbrella term) who tried to murder her son, and there is no way anyone on a day to day basis would have known. She was functioning in every other way except socially, in relationships...and trying to murder her baby. I see a lot of LL in her.

Edit to add: she was VERY manipulative and an expert at setting people off against each other (known as "splitting"), but in an incredibly subtle way.

To talk to, she was actually fairly nice, which is bizarre given what she had done, but on a surface level she was. She couldn't maintain relationships because she didn't basically care enough about them. And her baby was an inconvenience.

If she hadn't done what she did, she would no doubt have trundled through life just being a loner. Scary when you think about it!

I don't know if @Daisydunn15 would agree, but there is something about them when you spend time with them. They seem lovely, but it's like the wheel is spinning but the hamster is dead in there.

Absolutely agree with that last bit. I briefly worked on a forensic personality disorder ward (briefly because I hated every second of it, they were horrendous people) and in close proximity you can't miss it.
I think working as a nurse in the same team for 5 years, in such close proximity and stressful, testing situations, if she had aspd something would have been brought up in supervisions or complaints, and if it had been then the prosecution would be using it.

 

[PumpkinxQueen]

Sorry if it’s been answered - In the UK, does someone have to plead not guilty in order to have a jury trial? I don’t know a great deal about the UK judicial system.

Seems so odd if that’s the case because then her lawyers have advised her to plead not guilty, which means they think she isn’t guilty… surely a better option would have been to enter a plea deal and admit guilt & remorse??

 

[LittleMy]

The UO thread was insane, I can’t believe it lasted as long as it did tbh

Ikr? Was just a matter of time with that one. I just hoped this one could rise above all that.

At least (I don’t think) there have been any crazies off FB on this trial thread yet.

 

[avabella]

Yes but I do think she would have been put on admin duties so potentially, IF she was innocent, she could just be parroting the rumours that are going around about her!

Now I cannot stress this enough, I do think she's guilty and I think she wrote an admission of guilt on this note BUT I still don't think it's that cut and dry cause people can read it so many ways, eg. She was distressed, upset, blamed herself because she was incompetent, everyone else was blaming her etc.

This feels so weird to me in general (and maybe it's an HR thing) - but if there was talk/suspicion that she was somehow responsible for the death of babies, wouldn't she be put on garden leave/equivalent or something? Is that a thing in the NHS?

Also, and maybe someone will know - what was the timelines of the arrests and did she work in-between them?

 

[Faith61]

I’m finding the medical experts pretty compelling again. Defence cross examination is just not giving me any cause for reasonable doubt as the other issues they raise, like blockage in the bowel, are explained away. It helps there are X-rays as it’s more tangible than just notes and memories.

View attachment 1722056

I'm slowly catching up but loving how none of them are taking any shit off the Ben fella!!!

I will see if I can find my sons scan he had a bowel blockage and later a twisted bowel. Both things you can visibly see on his scan from an untrained eye that there is an issue. He also had emergency surgery resulting in a stoma so what that doctor is stating seems accurate to me.

Aww bless him..hope he's doing ok and not sure about babies or neonates, but I know "adult obstructions" are very typical in presentation and also obvious on x ray

I think Prof Arthur’s evidence has been incredibly strong, and this is why Dewi Fella said he’d rather defer that particular bit to the radiologist. I think he was excellent at disagreeing with BM theory on bowel blockage as he states clearly there was no medical sign of this, and more importantly it would have been found during PM and it definitely wasn’t. I also think Dr Bohin has been fantastic this morning, she’s acknowledged all the problems within the hospital, acknowledged that D should have been given antibiotics sooner etc BUT has then gone on to explain why they alone could not be responsible for the sudden and unexpected collapses. I think she’s a very strong witness for prosecution, certainly for D anyway. I think the pathologist will be just confirming what Prof Arthur’s, has already said on the defence’s theory of blockage in C being cause of death, there was no sign of this in PM

He can't get away from pm results....no matter how he tries!!!

 

[OldBlondie]

just that she would search on significant days such as xmas and death anniversaries. Almost like she was looking for posts about those babies. She also would search hours after the baby had died.

Would it also be suggested that the time of this one is significant as it’s something she’d been sitting thinking about all day,

 

[OldBlondie]

M


I thought she would opted for a jazzed up clutch

Same but I think we established last weekend that it would be one similar to this