Lucy Letby Case #11

[stardust1]

@anotheronebitesthedust.1 @listymint thanks for quick responses. So would you expect Ms Ellis to generally have good knowledge to a standard, that if she is supervised, she could deliver good care? So for example you’d be confident she would know the basics on how to spot signs etc?

 

[candyland_]

In the podcast they say her defence is the note is not a confession and it was wrote in anguish after being accused of killing the babies.

 

[stickytoffeepud]

Thank you, and do you check the position more than once across a time period or is it just not likely to move?

From my experience of them as an adult I don’t think they move much. Mine was fastened to my nose and my cheek because I kept trying to pull it out whilst semi conscious. I can’t imagine a newborn would have the coordination or strength to move enough to dislodge it.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Will remove if not appropriate. Pretty sure this is her

Yes that is her, I think that one is out in the press, sure I’ve seen it somewhere x

 

[Bakers]

I think even the Stephen Lawrence murderers were initially found not guilty on lack of evidence but there was no doubt they were guilty. Not guilty verdict doesn't equate to innocence, although obviously there will be a high number of cases which are found not guilty where they truly were innocent.

Re the defence. I am quite surprised that the cross examination isn't really eliciting much in the way of adding doubt. I know it is still early doors and they may have a whole lot to add when they actually start the defence and bring their own witnesses. However, being able to discredit prosecution witnesses or add doubt at this stage would make their own case even stronger when they do start presenting their defence. It's a bonus. I can't work out if they feel their own case/witnesses will be so strong and credible that they will easily secure the not guilty verdict or if there just isn't anything they can bring to throw at the prosecution other than defection and 'it wasn't me' because they just don't have a case to disprove her guilt.

I don't know how many followed the Star Hobson trial, but Frankie's barrister was similar in that he didn't do much cross examination and relied more on his own witnesses. He was able to get her off the murder charge (presumably as the evidence against Savanah was so strong) but she was still convicted of the other charges). Whereas Savanah's barrister did a very good job of trying to bring in doubt for the jury and tried to discredit every witness or cctv footage etc. Most of it was unbelievable in the face of the overwhelming evidence presented which is why she was convicted, but she at least tried. I just don't know what to make of Ben Myers approach at the moment...given he is supposed to be so good at securing not guilty verdict in some hideous cases. Not sure how much of that is down to the sporadic and patchy reporting though.

Just my musings after catching up after work.

Yes to this I mean barristers world wide will be on this, it's a once in a life time experience to show how good you are.,

 

[avabella]

Thinking out loud I wonder if the Scottish 3rd verdict of 'Not Proven' would have played a bigger role in this case - if it were in Scotland.

I know there are calls to remove it but it's an interesting thought of an avenue that could of been available to the jury.

Obviously it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things here ... Just my mind going off on one!

Would that fall under the Culpable Homicide banner I wonder? There was a case of a woman who killed her child and that's what she was charged on and her prison sentence was pitiful.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I thought Lucy was at the first deterioration.
Sophie popped out, baby deteriorated while Lucy was there, Sophie went to the computer, it happened again.

That's what I thought too but I'm too confused now.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

It's a bit confusing as the leader live updates state she looked up the baby's parents at 4pm the following day after baby c had died overnight. Some of the reporting is a bit muddled

that’s what I thought I read! Would certainly put a different spin on it! So frustrating when they report different things. Who knows

 

[Warpaint]

Do we know anything yet how people related to Lucy as a person? Has there been anything from her childhood or from close friends? Are people now pretty much convinced she's a serial killer?

I've not been online for a few days so it's all so hard to follow!

 

[Tofino]

how do you find the names of the people she texted it’s really bugging me

It wasn’t in the live reporting but is in the round up

Lucy Letby trial: Murder-accused nurse said death of second baby was ‘all a bit much’

COUNTESS of Chester Hospital neonatal unit nurse Lucy Letby told a colleague it was “all a bit much” after allegedly murdering a second baby.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tangerine Cat]

Just to give an opposing opinion for discussion, because bickering aside the discussions on here are usually really interesting and respectful. But I get the impression that there are also people here who would continue to believe she’s guilty even if the court finds her innocent

People in everyday life will too, her life is ruined due to the nature of charges and the sheer amount of them. If she’s innocent it’s a terrifying thought.

anyway I know you’re not talking about me, I’m flip flopping all over the place

 

[abelleza]

Can I just point something out and I'll leave it there cos as I said I'm not here for the backbiting, for want of a better word?
I didn't join the thread till much later on, so didn't see the insults you refer to..but i was on the receiving end of this person yesterday after asking a genuine question.....I kept quiet to avoid it escalating. ..just no need for rhe sarcasm and provocation...

Sorry I don’t want to derail the thread but are you saying I was horrible to you or the person I was quoting? If it was me then I’m sorry, I never want to make anyone feel upset.

 

[riddleme89]

I think we have watched different documentaries, I don’t remember that being said last night when I watched! I’ll take a look on prime. I watched two different ones last night and the itv one gave more info than the YouTube one I watched. There is another on nowtv also. Shocking case! But the thing I took most from it wasn’t comparing letby to Allit, but rather the similarities within the actual investigation and really brought home just how hard it is to get the point they are at now in trying to get a conviction.

Sorry I meant the Netflix film good nurse xx

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

She was definitely charged with Murder but pled guilty to CH. If you're thinking of the same woman as me. It got a massive press campaign and lots of people were not happy that she was able to do that for a lesser sentence, considering the whole situation and what happened.

I remember the case - awful.

 

[avabella]

Have you read the information we have for child G so far? Lucy herself is saying it can’t be. They checked the babies stomach was empty before the feed and then in excess of the amount the baby was fed was discovered. The vomit was so violent it was all over the floor and the same amount baby was fed was aspirated. The baby was full to the brim and there was excess milk all over floor. It’s simple maths really. The baby had no pervasive problem with this. It was very well outside of Letby’s presence and was due it’s immunisations because it was doing very well. It sounds like defence will say that it might not have been Letby. If that is reasonable doubt for people by the time we’re at G then that’s fine. It isn’t for me.

I’m sure I remember reading somewhere that the description of the vomiting isn’t all that unusual - maybe someone else can remember if it was a parent or nurse that had chipped in but I do remember them saying to that effect.

 

[Alzzah]

Her motivation for remembering the way she does? Lucy letby placed herself in the room in her own statements, now sure what part u think she is embellishing? And this nurse is not on trial for murder.

You know, u can take the stance innocent until proven guilty, without strongly advocating her innocence and trying to indicate that the witnesses may have caused the death of the children...

I was very careful with how I worded what I said to attempt to prevent this accusation. I said she has the most to gain from a clean conscience point of view (by not feeling guilty, not by being the cause).
It goes to reinforce that the written word can be misinterpreted easily.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I haven't got NowTV. Can I get a free trial just to watch the programme?

aaah I don’t think so, as it’s part of the entertainment package I think! Like you can get a free trial with now tv hayu i think it’s called, but not a free trial with anything worth watching . Do you have a friend or family member who has an account you could borrow for a couple of days that’s what I did ! X

 

[MrsDon1]

Sorry if this had already been addressed but can any hospital staff on here confirm if staff would ever have be told the outcome of post mortems? I can imagine it must be very hard knowing that your patient has died and not knowing what the reason was. Could she argue that she was looking at the Facebook pages of the parents to try to find answers/learning opportunities as to why the babies died?

 

[Faith61]

I'm wondering whether the holes that they're trying to poke will be backed by their own expert witness later on. I don't suppose there's much else they can do other than get the medics to acknowledge other issues with the babies at this stage.

I was just thinking the same...you've worded it better than I could...he's probably managed to leave a seed of doubt in his latest questioning with reference to Baby C

 

[Alzzah]

Do you know her...just very curious why you would say that?

Know who?