Lucy Letby Case #10

[Emmelina Ball]

I think if she is guilty she potentially could be going through this trial for the sole purpose of pulling people down with her for errors they made too? Its so sickening what we’re learning and this only a couple weeks in

 

[stardust1]

People need to stop the oh you should see my texts or a few texts isn't context

You bitching about fat Janet in the accounting department isn't the same as discussing babies who have passed away

I feel like that was a personal attack, do you know a fat Jan in accounts?

 

[Windowtothewall]

I know people are saying it's normal to text constantly about patients and re-visit the trauma/negative feelings - but her own colleagues are telling her she needs to let it go, to take a break, switch off on holiday, that this isn't like her. So that means no one else considered this the norm.

 

[OH.FFS]

Well after today, even if I was in the jury I’d be leaning towards guilty.

so far I’ve gone from, innocent until proven guilty, to unsure, to guilty (but only because I’m safe to cast judgement as I’m not part of the jury), to today feeling guilty even if I was on the jury, and there’s over five more months to go.

 

[Tofino]

I'm convinced from today that these weren't natural or accidental deaths, I have a feeling it was her as it seems the only answer at this point but as we haven't scratched the surface still open minded. I do still feel the fact the ward was in such a bad state and underperforming is still relevant either way though, for such an increase in deaths and such a slow reaction to it, scary.

I suppose the relevance of a hospital in a bad state is that it’s looking like it allowed a serial killer to go unnoticed for a very long time. Safeguarding was compromised by failures at the hospital.

 

[dot bold dot dot]

I’m curious to know how those who have been in the NG/on the fence camp so far are feeling after today? It seems pretty damming.

I've been not guilty / on the fence since the beginning. I even voted not guilty in some of the polls but after reading here today I felt something change inside, it was the first time I've really thought she could be guilty.

And I have also realised that I've been swaying to not guilty and unsure because I have been influenced quite a bit by how she looks - quite girl next door and innocent looking if that makes sense - and I'm very ashamed to admit that.

 

[WonderShade18]

These doctors will have reviewed every medical intervention of each baby, looked at results, ruled out other circumstances and finally came to a conclusion. For both to categorically say the death and non fatal collapse where caused by an air embolus..I'm taking that as fact.

 

[slidders]

I’ve never commented on here before but have been desperately trying to keep up! It

Someone up thread mentioned PDs and Munchausens by proxy sprang to mind to me. I was then reading up on the Beverley Allit case somebody mentioned and saw this…

“Allitt's motives have never been fully explained. According to one theory, she showed symptoms of a factitious disorder; specifically, factitious disorder imposed on another, also known as Munchausen syndrome by proxy.[19] This disorder is described as involving a pattern of abuse in which a perpetrator ascribes symptoms to, or physically falsifies illnesses in, someone under their care in order to attract attention to themselves.”

The parallels between the two cases are actually quite scary. I wonder how much LL knew of this case.

 

[raspberryjuice]

I’m curious to know how those who have been in the NG/on the fence camp so far are feeling after today? It seems pretty damming.

For me, it’s just further strengthened my feeling that she’s guilty. And I’m worried about how much more will come out, and how much worse it will get. My heart breaks for all of the families and other staff involved in this. It is horrendous.

 

[struggs123]

I wondered too about him saying he wasn’t looking for a crime despite being contacted by the National Crime Agency. I don’t doubt he was dilligent and aimed not to be biased but to me that felt like a bit of a conflicting statement.

I think he’s been their most reliable expert so far by a mile though.

I think what he was saying essentially is that his role is to determine the cause of death from a medical point of view, he isn't made aware of the reason for the investigations and so approaches it purely to find facts and not to prove or disprove a theory. A crime in relation to this could be from corporate negligence ie faulty equipment through to whatever else, I don't think for one minute he suspected it was because there was suspicion a neonatal nurse had been killing babies.

 

[wishiniwasskinny]

I feel now they’ve gotten to the crux of the expert evidence. Pretty damning

 

[Milktray]

Sorry, I am biased. Some people’s comments have been thought provoking and sewed a bit of doubt. Others have tried to sew doubt but it’s not worked for me. Some I agree with only half of what they say. Some may think they’re unbiased but they don’t sound like that to me.
All different opinions. What’s wrong with that?
I’m firmly in one camp. If that makes me dumb. I’m dumb.
I’m not on the Jury. I’m just a person on the internet with an opinion.

You put that much better than I did!
Who would've thought our IQs were being screened on Tattle. A pre-warning would've been nice, I would have stopped talking crap along time ago!

 

[Daisydunn15]

Seems an obvious choice to go to trial then.

Could give me some idea of what she lacks or seems to lack when it comes to meeting the threshold for insanity?

In the UK its called diminished responsibility and it can change a sentence from murder to voluntary manslaughter - it's actually a real point of interest for me as I have experience in law and mental health
She would need to have been experiencing a mental disorder at the time of the attacks, one which can be diagnosed and which would be capable of significantly impacting her ability to make rational decision, leading to her actions.
Not all psychiatric illnesses would fit this, something with psychosis like schizophrenia, delirium, PP psychosis are easier to use in the defence as its accepted that they can alter your thoughts to this extent although its rare and most people with psychosis aren't risky. This wouldn't work because she wouldn't be employed as a nurse, maintaining relationships and going about her normal life with an illness like this.
Sometimes depression works, if you're so unwell that you lack capacity however again working in a skilled role as a professional would rule out being depressed to that extent.
There's also the timings of the incidents, they were spaced so far apart that, someone would have seen some evidence of a mental disorder of that degree if she suffered for so long, it's not like she worked in isolation in an office somewhere.

 

[odv1259]

I’m curious to know how those who have been in the NG/on the fence camp so far are feeling after today? It seems pretty damming.

For me, it’s just further strengthened my feeling that she’s guilty. And I’m worried about how much more will come out, and how much worse it will get. My heart breaks for all of the families and other staff involved in this. It is horrendous.

If we're being strict here; they've provided sound reasoning as to why they believe someone deliberately did it, and how this couldn't have been accidental, but they have not necessarily proven that Lucy did it. I assume the defence is going to lean on that, because unless you are 100% CERTAIN Lucy did it, you're risking sending an innocent person to prison by voting guilty.

That is a fairly shit defence though, because it'd mean accepting that a murder took place, which would further incriminate Lucy unless they can provide an alternative.

All in all, I can see why someone may still be uncertain about voting guilty. I can't really see why someone would firmly believe she's innocent, though.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Five attempts at a long line.. I don't know how bad that is to be fair, but isn't it usual to try twice then let someone else as skilled have a go?
Again that's the olden days and adults.

Not by any means comparable, however, when I was in labour with my first after fours days in hospital I was forced to have an epidural. I didn’t agree to this I wasn’t in any state to agree to it, but the professional took it out of my hands. I was 18 at the time and this was 16 years ago. It a long story but A trainee attempted the epidural 7 times in my back, getting higher and higher each time. Eventually the experienced
anaesthetist took over, but only after the 7th failed attempt! And it was so far up it didn’t even have the desired effect I could still move my legs and feel everything below my belly button. And the damage was done, the trainee went in too far and caused a CFS leak I was in hospital 2 weeks because the pain was excruciating and I couldn’t lift my head ( I couldn’t hold, change feed or bath my baby properly the midwife’s had to basically do everything). Had to have some procedure done can’t remember the name of it now. Luckily I had no long term damage. I was asked at the time if I wanted to put a complaint in and take it further, I didn’t as I didn’t care, I just cared about my baby. But looking back that shouldn’t have been allowed to happen and someone should have stepped in sooner!

 

[bringingdownthebs]

Likely she will have been harming babies for a while before the first death. Whether that’s just small things like physically hurting them or other things. Sickening.

I’m sure someone said in an earlier thread that a mum had posted on a Facebook group following the first arrest and tagged her husband saying something like “I told you she was hurting our baby and nobody believed me”
This made me very very suspicious.
My partner (who is a surgeon) genuinely believes that she is guilty and that child A was not the first child she’d hurt/murdered. He thinks it’s unlikely that was the first occasion.

 

[Treesy19]

Almost the perfect murder, attack to most vulnerable. Who would suspect it, tiny neonates. A young blonde smiley nurse. But the devil appears in any form. Except she got greedy (like Shipman) and carried on. If she’d have stopped after a few this thread wouldn’t exist.

 

[friedeggontoast]

This is just horrific to read I hope everyone is okay on here, I know this could be hugely triggering for many people.

 

[stardust1]

Spoiler: put as spoiler as this is off topic and just me thinking aloud lol

Off topic, but I feel like I’ve really struggled with the idea that someone could be so evil, and that’s why I was sure she was innocent. But today I was remembering this medical student I knew who literally said that she thought all disabled people should be sterilized so they couldn’t have kids .
I also knew 2 other male medical students who regularly used to grope girls on nights out at the SU and one of them eventually ended up getting accused of rape, not sure what happened with him in the end but I 100% believe whoever it was who accused him of it. Anyway, my point is, a lot of shitty people defo do go into healthcare professions (obv not all serial killers ofc) so I’ve no idea why the idea that ‘people can’t be that evil’ keeps clouding my views tbh.

Honestly after following this case I feel entirely grateful that my baby was ok after his 3 ops but I feel physically ill at the thought of his 4th op because it really is sad that absolutely anyone could be responsible for yours/your childs health/life

 

[Daisydunn15]

ultimately we all have differing opinions so it feels slightly redundant to keep rehashing “who thinks she’s innocent/guilty and why” we can only go off the limited evidence we have heard and at the end of the day, it’s sort of irrelevant what we think (i see the irony of being part of this thread lol) so it’s not like anyone needs to convince anyone else of her guilt or innocence

I quite like people expressing their view at the start of the thread with a new poll. I don't think its rehashing because we've usually had new evidence by the time a new thread starts. It's interesting to me to find how people may change their view thread to thread or to see why their interpretation has brought them to their decision