Notice
Thread ordered by most liked posts - View normal thread.

MmmB777

VIP Member
If you’d done this you’d have to admit it to yourself first though, and I suspect she’s in deep denial (if she’s guilty). Even in prison/therapy it might take a while before she can admit it (if that’s the case). She hasn’t yet expressed any signs of remorse (understandably because we are still at trial stage and she has plead not guilty).
I would hazard a guess at this too. I think she will have a ‘factitious disorder imposed on another’. I think her note is an admission of guilt which she probably has in moments of clarity. I think her talk of ‘fate’ was highly unusual. I also saw the note as very self centred. There’s only one proclamation of innocence but it reads “I didn’t do anything wrong” - there’s just something I don’t like about that. It’s not really saying I’m innocent in the true sense. However, the prosecution say there are others so perhaps they read better (I wonder why defence didn’t use them 🤷🏻‍♀️). I still don't like it though - I haven’t done anything wrong isn’t how I’d word things. I maintain that she couldn’t have written before her first arrest - I’m evil, I killed them on purpose, I’m a bad person and pay every day, I did it - if she was innocent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 18

I’mThankyou_

VIP Member
I've gone from guilty, to unsure when defence gave their opening statement but teetering between unsure and guilty constantly.
However, I just can't see Not Guilty in my head
 
  • Like
Reactions: 18

Windowtothewall

Chatty Member
I have to say I don’t think this witness is going to be the one that secures the conviction against her.
its a different question.

for child A he’s asked if the WHOLE situation was sub optimal as a result of lack of fluids.
No. Means she shouldn’t have collapsed as it wasn’t that sub optimal

for Child B he’s asked if the lack of fluids itself was sub optimal.
yes. Lack of fluids on its own is sub optimal.

that’s how lawyers get you - wording and semantics
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 18

MmmB777

VIP Member
What I mean is, if she’s answering the question “why has this grievance been raised”, then the answer is because it’s alleged she is responsible for their deaths, not just by mistakes or malpractice, but intentionally. And that would make her an evil person.

To do a reflection exercise like that, it wouldn’t actually matter whether she’s guilty or not, it would be an analysis of the grievance situation in isolation.

either way, I think the rest of the evidence is stacking up against her. It’s just that I don’t see the note as the smoking gun that some others do.
Hmm. If it was a phone call, I think Miss Selective Memory would have remembered that one. The defence didn’t mention it and whoever she was on the phone to would have been used as a witness. They would have to. I still wouldn’t write it as that, even in anguish. I would be writing. I cannot believe anyone thinks I did this on purpose. I made mistakes but I would never harm any babies. Now she may well have written things like that, I think she will have. But she has very clearly written out that she is evil and she killed them on purpose and she did it. She’s not bat shit crazy (crazy but not so crazy that as an innocent person she was driven insane to admit to things), she wrote that out because she knows it to be true imo. Under duress, people with low IQ will admit guilt. I do not see that as this. I appreciate we all have differing opinions on the note 👍🏻
 
  • Like
Reactions: 17

Tofino

VIP Member
I think her parents will probably still believe she’s not guilty. There are plenty of people in the general public who don’t even know Lucy who believe that so it would be no surprise if her parents did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 17

MmmB777

VIP Member
Because the thought that someone has murdered these babies is horrific. I’d rather there wasn’t an individual directly to blame for the deaths, even if they were somehow preventable.

That doesn’t mean that I won’t switch to guilty if when the trial finishes the evidence points that way.

The issue I have with the experts so far is one I question the impartiality and two they are prosecution experts. It’s not like we have a panel of neutral experts sitting there drawing a conclusion is it?
They are exactly neutral. Both sides are allowed to get expert witnesses. If the reports don’t fit what the pros or defence want to say then they don’t use them. They have to give an unbiased report based on their findings. Do I suspect there are some bad eggs in the profession- yes as there are in all. However, I have no reason to suspect that when his findings have been peer reviewed and the fact there’s plenty of evidence to suggest they’re right!
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 17

Aberscot

VIP Member
To me today the prosecution have proved baby A was murdered and Baby B harmed, but have they proved it was Lucy?
I think they need to speak about the shift patterns again and confirm these incidents of strange rashes and collapses only happened when she was on shift otherwise it could theoretically be another member of staff.
Also if you were on jury today and believe the prosecution i think it would be hard to think all the rest of the babies unexplained deaths were not suspicious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 17

listymint

Active member
She agreed she had been taught to prime lines so air could not get in them.

She denied having done so via Child A's long line or UVC.

She said she didn't know exactly what an air embolism was.


This was the bit in the police interview. Firstly the second sentence doesn’t make sense. Is she denying she primed the lines? Or is it badly worded and she’s denying administering air on purpose?

Also I’m clearly guilty camp but I’m wondering what is meant by ‘didn’t know exactly what an air embolism was’. Could she know that it’s air in the bloodstream but not exactly what it does after that? Or are nurses taught it quite in depth?
Feeling like it’s not clear as we don’t know what question was asked. This is just a summary of police interview and not a transcript.
We are taught in our training about the importance of priming lines and the consequences of what happens to the body if we do not prime correctly and there is air in the line.
This is taught in university skills first before we are allowed to take this into practice and then, under supervision from a supervisor/assessor do this lots of times to enable us to be signed off as competent. I can't for one second believe she didn't know this considering how 'top of the class' in studies she was.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 17

mRsKbRoOkS

VIP Member
Finally with the questioning of the experts evidence. I think it is important. If someone is told to look for evidence of a crime rather than to look for what caused a death the outcome has potential for bias. Hence the discrepancy between post mortem cause of death and prosecution witnesses cause of death. Also worth remembering that the prosecution wouldn’t put someone in the stand who didn’t agree with their proposed cause of deaths.
However, Dr Evans himself stated he wasn’t looking for a crime.

Dr Evans said he was tasked with investigating a "clinical condition", not a "crime", when he became aware of the Countess of Chester Hospital case, when tasked by the National Crime Agency.

He said the scenarios added up to a "constellation of worries" on what went on between June 2015 and June 2016.

He adds that in past cases, he has been brought in by police and the conclusion was accidental, so the case was closed with no further police involvement.

He is asked about his 'state of mind' in his approach to the cases.

"My state of mind was very clear - let's find a diagnosis. Nothing to do with crime. Let's identify any specific collapse, and see if I can explain it.

"There were occasions where I couldn't explain it, and occasions where I found something deeply suspicious.

"There were incidents I found disturbing."

He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.

He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.

He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.

"I was the easiest physician and the most difficult. I was a blank sheet of paper. I had no idea and relied entirely on the evidence I could see from the clinical notes and applying my clinical experience and forming an opinion to the cause."


He said he asked to have one case file to have "an idea" of what he was dealing with.

Mr Myers: "Was the phrase 'air embolus' used at all?"

Dr Evans: "No. The first person to use air embolus, as far as I was concerned, was me.

"I need to give the NCA a compliment, they never gave me a steer. They are good, professional people."
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 17

Davena94

VIP Member
I’ve not commented here before just been reading, but I just wanted to add my thoughts about the note. In nursing, especially during our training, we’re taught to do something called reflection… basically you write down a situation, how it made you feel, why you think it happened and what you can do better next time etc. I feel like the note was her version of this
 
  • Like
  • Heart
  • Wow
Reactions: 17

Aberscot

VIP Member
Poor parents of Baby A & Baby B, one of their child murdered and another one nearly. I don’t know how they cope to get on with life, my thoughts with them today as what we have heard so far is absolutely devastating 💔
 
  • Like
  • Heart
  • Sad
Reactions: 17

listymint

Active member
‘She said she did not recall how upset Child A and B's parents were at the time.’

"Dad was on the floor crying saying 'please don't take our baby away' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heartbreaking.
"It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Hopefully have a more positive one tonight."


🤨 I’m sorry but I think you’d recall this! Hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. Physically typed that the dad was on the floor crying. But three years later you have no memory, I don’t know how significant this is in terms of the case as a whole but it stood out to me and I say bullshit !!
Completely different but I took my sister and brother in law to the vets years ago. My brother in law said one last goodbye their beloved dog and he fell to his knees sobbing holding the dog.
Witnessing this is something I will NEVER forget so I don't see how LL could not recall the parents emotions!
 
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Heart
Reactions: 17

Tofino

VIP Member
In the messages in isolation I really don’t.

The messages stopping, possibly.
I don’t think you can look at it in isolation though? If she’s guilty the very fact she’s specifically trying to get into room 1 is really sinister. It shows that baby was probably targeted for some reason, she even said ‘not the vented one necessarily’ so she clearly knows what babies are already in there and what condition they are in.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: 17

stickytoffeepud

Active member
Me this morning : ahhh good, finally caught up with the LL threads on tattle
Me this evening : feet up, time to catch up on Tattle, there can’t be that many new post……How many!!!!

im still unsure but one thing that keeps popping into my head is that I imagine if you’re doing something like murdering innocent babies you must be constantly looking over your shoulder and interpreting Amy behavior as potential suspicion. That being the case surely you’d see being moved from Nights to Days as a sign that people are cottoning on to what you’re up to, so why carry on killing.

Equally though surely in any profession if you have suspicions a colleague is up to no good then at the very least would you not document your suspicions.

The mind boggles
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 17

CrazyGiraffeLady

VIP Member
Jesus Christ what a catch up that was 💔. I did believe she was NG and I’m starting to believe she is guilty. I just can’t comprehend she went through uni and training and for what? The ability to play god with innocent babies lives. My mind is blown. I feel like I’ve just realised these were actual live babies💔 I realise that sound ridiculous but 🤯🤯
 
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Heart
Reactions: 17

Tofino

VIP Member
Do we think she started doing this after she watched that documentary she text her work colleagues about . She would have only seen the clip we did but that’s enough . Sends chills down me how she could possibly have done this crime
It saddens me to think this, but if she is guilty then I think we might find child A was not the first child she harmed. For child A it sounds like her opportunity was doing it in the same room as other people. That’s pretty bold for your first victim.
 
  • Like
  • Heart
  • Wow
Reactions: 17
Last week I have to admit I was edging towards not guilty, but I’ve been rethinking a few things. Even little things, like the message from her colleague saying “last night was strange” she was in the same situation as her colleague and would of thought it too, or even asked her why….,But she literally just ignored making any comment on it…. I think she did it, I think she was doing it because ( sounds sick ) she wanted some entertainment and something going on, some drama and to be involved in it. As much as none of us want to admit to ourselves I think what we have here is a cold and calculated monster in disguise. Those poor families and defenceless little babies who didn’t even get a shot at life 💔
 
  • Like
  • Heart
  • Sad
Reactions: 17

candyland_

VIP Member
She shouldn’t have even been working the shift when Baby C died - she asked for extra shifts as a confidence boost and wanted an ICU baby.
This is the case where she didn’t get the baby she wanted and was repeatedly reprimanded by her senior for not looking after her designated babies.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
  • Wow
Reactions: 17

avabella

VIP Member
I'd hate to see what you guys thought about my work texts/chats to my colleagues. We constantly moan to each other in similar styles to what we're seeing here. I just don't see it as sinister. If she's innocent, it looks like perfectly normal texts to me - what am I missing?!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 17