Lucy Letby #5

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Defence and prosecution is a double edged sword.

Defend someone who is guilty, the guilty walk away free. Or maybe send an innocent person to jail for the majority of their lives.

Neither one is the better option.
I think a lot of people actually do think, even subconsciously, that it's better for an innocent person to go to prison wrongly than to risk a guilty one going free. As a juror you cannot rely on what your "gut instinct" is telling you. That isn't good enough. You have to look, objectively, at the evidence and ask if it shows you beyond a reasonable doubt that this person definitely committed the crime they are accused of. If it doesn't then you HAVE to find not guilty. It's worrying how many people don't understand that.
 
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Lol no.
For Murder trials you'll find they are very compliant in providing info.
Lol no, what?
That is my professional experience with them 🙄

My experience isn't in murder, but other serious crime whereby they seldom provide passwords or use encro-chat.
 
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Yes I'm also waiting for these with interest.
Me too.
She is clearly fit for trail, but if doesn't mean she don't have some sort of mental problems. I'm wondering how her psychiatric report look like.
I follow one of the forensic psychiatrist- Dr Sohom Das. He have yt channel (psych for the sore minds) where he discuss a number of cases and explain how psychiatric evaluation look like etc
I hope so once we have more informations he will discuss LL case too. I found his channel very informative and interesting.
 
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I've just caught up after work and I think he did a really good job of holding his own and not allowing his testimony to be undermined.
He’s probably used to it isn’t he, this is basically his job now speaking in court. He’s probably has many Ben Meyers questioning his expertise over the years.
 
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Did

He did!
And I must say, Mark Dowling's reporting has been excellent so far.
Somebody needs to tell him he’s not allowed any annual leave for the next six months otherwise we might get Brad in replacement.
 
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Lol no, what?
That is my professional experience with them 🙄

My experience isn't in murder, but other serious crime whereby they seldom provide passwords or use encro-chat.
If I recall correctly Savannah Brockhill wouldn’t allow access to her social media so they didn’t have any of it for the trial?
 
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He’s probably used to it isn’t he, this is basically his job now speaking in court. He’s probably has many Ben Meyers questioning his expertise over the years.
Defo. It’s a really horrible part of the job though. My family member has been doing this over live link all day and just asked to come round to see my kids cos she needs some hugs. bleeping badass in front of them going at her but it’s tough going. I liked the cut of his jib from what I read- serving it straight back!
 
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I think a lot of people actually do think, even subconsciously, that it's better for an innocent person to go to prison wrongly than to risk a guilty one going free. As a juror you cannot rely on what your "gut instinct" is telling you. That isn't good enough. You have to look, objectively, at the evidence and ask if it shows you beyond a reasonable doubt that this person definitely committed the crime they are accused of. If it doesn't then you HAVE to find not guilty. It's worrying how many people don't understand that.
I give a lot a grace to human nature, something horrific happens we need someone to blame, anger and emotion will take over and we demand justice (rightly so)
What worries me how many people don't consider that if the wrong person goes to jail, they don't realise that the guilty party still walks free. There is no justice in that
 
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Somebody needs to tell him he’s not allowed any annual leave for the next six months otherwise we might get Brad in replacement.
Brad was very good wasn't he. It felt like we were practically reading the transcripts verbatim.

Mark is doing good though, he's covering quite a lot of info and leaving some of the less relevant bits (like jury watching videos about machinery) nicely short and concise.
 
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Brad was very good wasn't he. It felt like we were practically reading the transcripts verbatim.

Mark is doing good though, he's covering quite a lot of info and leaving some of the less relevant bits (like jury watching videos about machinery) nicely short and concise.
It was Dave Jagger that did the really good reporting, then he had a day off and we got Brad and it all went to tit 🤣 orite? Bless him. He did his best but we were pleased when we got Dave back 🤣
 
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It was Dave Jagger that did the really good reporting, then he had a day off and we got Brad and it all went to tit 🤣 orite? Bless him. He did his best but we were pleased when we got Dave back 🤣
Ah yes it was 🤣 I'd completely forgotten about orite...I think he even took some stick on twitter for that and took it in good grace
 
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The expert witness isn’t on trial here. He did do a good job of not being undermined however he has been doing the job since what 2007.
Although, just thinking out loud here how much of an expert can he be if he hasn’t even used an IntelliVue. Im not trying to discredit any of his work (obviously very intelligent and respected in his field) I’m just surprised they haven’t gone with a consultant neonatologist instead of a paediatrician where the majority of his work on the neonatal unit seemed to be 30/40 years ago.
 
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If I recall correctly Savannah Brockhill wouldn’t allow access to her social media so they didn’t have any of it for the trial?
I believe they had the encrypted data from snapchat, but I don't recall any other social media evidence no. If it wasn't logged in on the phone and she wouldn't disclose the password then they normally can't access it.
 
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I think a lot of people actually do think, even subconsciously, that it's better for an innocent person to go to prison wrongly than to risk a guilty one going free. As a juror you cannot rely on what your "gut instinct" is telling you. That isn't good enough. You have to look, objectively, at the evidence and ask if it shows you beyond a reasonable doubt that this person definitely committed the crime they are accused of. If it doesn't then you HAVE to find not guilty. It's worrying how many people don't understand that.
I suppose say they can’t prove it beyond reasonable doubt, if she is still guilty but walks free at least she’ll unlikely even be near children again? Not much but I guess it’s something ☹
 
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The expert witness isn’t on trial here. He did do a good job of not being undermined however he has been doing the job since what 2007.
His practice can’t be that up to date if he hasn’t used an IntelliVue, just my thoughts.
Although, just thinking out loud here how much of an expert can he be if he hasn’t even used an IntelliVue. Im not trying to discredit any of his work (obviously very intelligent and respected in his field) I’m just surprised they haven’t gone with a consultant neonatologist instead of a paediatrician where the majority of his work on the neonatal unit seemed to be 30/40 years ago.
To be fair, I imagine some units might use a different make of machine but I assume in life saving equipment like hospital monitors that they all have to be of an exact standard and do the same thing. They are all just alarming when parameters are breached, so as long as he understands that, the make of the machine isn't really relevant
 
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I suppose say they can’t prove it beyond reasonable doubt, if she is still guilty but walks free at least she’ll unlikely even be near children again? Not much but I guess it’s something ☹
Well if she's found not guilty then on what basis would they be able to stop her ever being near children again?

I suppose if it was her incompetence that killed them then yes, but that would then be manslaughter.
 
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Well if she's found not guilty then on what basis would they be able to stop her ever being near children again?

I suppose if it was her incompetence that killed them then yes, but that would then be manslaughter.
Surely no one would ever employ her in a caregiving role again? Rightly or wrongly Mud sticks
 
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To be fair, I imagine some units might use a different make of machine but I assume in life saving equipment like hospital monitors that they all have to be of an exact standard and do the same thing. They are all just alarming when parameters are breached, so as long as he understands that, the make of the machine isn't really relevant
Yes you are probably right there. I think I’m just thinking about the little details a bit too much. Lots to take in isn’t there.
 
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