Karen Read Case

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Just my opinion but I think she was that drunk she didn’t know she’d knocked into him that night. She drove them both to 34 Fairview, they argued as they pulled up, he got out the car and she was mad he did. She did a 3 point turn, knocked him down without realising then drove off as she just assumed he’d gone into the house.
She’s not guilty of murder but she was so drunk she doesn’t realise she’s hit him. There’s no hidden cop conspiracy- she’s gone on record to change her narrative multiple times and she’s suddenly remembered clear details (ie listening to U2 in the car) but it was a terrible drunken accident
This is how I’m leaning too. It would also go some way to explaining how the tail light didn’t leave any glass shards on John’s driveway (when she hit his car) - there may not have been any glass left to fall out.
And also explain how she knew exactly where he’d be, I think she maybe thought it had been a bad dream but when she sobered up slightly realised it had actually happened
 
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Just my opinion but I think she was that drunk she didn’t know she’d knocked into him that night. She drove them both to 34 Fairview, they argued as they pulled up, he got out the car and she was mad he did. She did a 3 point turn, knocked him down without realising then drove off as she just assumed he’d gone into the house.
She’s not guilty of murder but she was so drunk she doesn’t realise she’s hit him. There’s no hidden cop conspiracy- she’s gone on record to change her narrative multiple times and she’s suddenly remembered clear details (ie listening to U2 in the car) but it was a terrible drunken accident
I think this is the most plausible - they were all clearly not strangers to drinking and driving.

ETA: there is something totally off about the behaviour of the others though and, for me, that's why the case is so compelling.
 
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Right I’ve lost the last 24 hours of my life and I’m currently running on insane amounts of caffeine and adrenaline, but I’ve done a massive deep dive and I’m on team guilty. Off to watch the live trial now 🙈
 
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Just my opinion but I think she was that drunk she didn’t know she’d knocked into him that night. She drove them both to 34 Fairview, they argued as they pulled up, he got out the car and she was mad he did. She did a 3 point turn, knocked him down without realising then drove off as she just assumed he’d gone into the house.
She’s not guilty of murder but she was so drunk she doesn’t realise she’s hit him. There’s no hidden cop conspiracy- she’s gone on record to change her narrative multiple times and she’s suddenly remembered clear details (ie listening to U2 in the car) but it was a terrible drunken accident
I agree that is possible that happened.
What I am hung up on are the shady actions of everyone else who was in the house and the god awful investigation.
The unbelievable amount of butt dials, re-homed pets, disposing of phones one day before a preservation order. Evidence stored in solo cups and shopping bags, no chain of custody, red taillight found only after the car had been siezed. Proctor....just everything about him, so bad he was fired because of his actions on this investigation.
Plus, the injuries don't seem to line up with being hit by a car.
If we are to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how the commonwealth can meet that burden.
For anyone who did not watch the first trial, please listen to Trooper Paul, the commonwealth "expert" on how he says the collision happened 🙄
 
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I agree that is possible that happened.
What I am hung up on are the shady actions of everyone else who was in the house and the god awful investigation.
The unbelievable amount of butt dials, re-homed pets, disposing of phones one day before a preservation order. Evidence stored in solo cups and shopping bags, no chain of custody, red taillight found only after the car had been siezed. Proctor....just everything about him, so bad he was fired because of his actions on this investigation.
Plus, the injuries don't seem to line up with being hit by a car.
If we are to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how the commonwealth can meet that burden.
For anyone who did not watch the first trial, please listen to Trooper Paul, the commonwealth "expert" on how he says the collision happened 🙄
The police definitely have not helped the prosecutions case whatsoever and I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to believe him after his behaviours came to light.
The podcasts and focus I’ve been binging on make good points about the evidence gathering - it was a literal blizzard, wild weather and they couldn’t get the tent to stay up because it was so windy. The blood collection kits are only to be used to swab blood and they realised that they couldn’t get a decent sample from the snow, so used a brand new and wrapped packet of solo cups and brand new bag to store in. I’m not overly hung up on that, they were doing the best they could with what they had. If they were trying to cover anything up or misdirect evidence, why would they collect it? There was also no problem with the evidence in the sense that it wasn’t compromised and the samples had the expected dna profiles etc on them.
 
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But surely if she was guilty then there would not be all of the inconsistences in the others statements and actions, the disposing of the phones, the whole issue with Proctor, Brian Albert not coming out of his house when all the commotion was going on outside and so many other things that have happened.
 
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But surely if she was guilty then there would not be all of the inconsistences in the others statements and actions, the disposing of the phones, the whole issue with Proctor, Brian Albert not coming out of his house when all the commotion was going on outside and so many other things that have happened.
As far as I can tell from what I've watched/read, Proctor didn't go to the scene in the timeframe that it is alleged that he could have 'planted' the evidence though. The defence don't even go there with that angle because they know it's not possible. Brian Albert not coming out of his house also isn't an indication of guilt I don't feel - I'm not sure of the layout of his house but it looks massive and perhaps his bedroom was at the back. There was also a literal snowstorm outside so I think it's plausible they didn't hear anything at that time. I reckon the disposing of the phone was an attempt by Higgins not to have those 'saucy' texts read by anyone 😬😬
 
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The police definitely have not helped the prosecutions case whatsoever and I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to believe him after his behaviours came to light.
The podcasts and focus I’ve been binging on make good points about the evidence gathering - it was a literal blizzard, wild weather and they couldn’t get the tent to stay up because it was so windy. The blood collection kits are only to be used to swab blood and they realised that they couldn’t get a decent sample from the snow, so used a brand new and wrapped packet of solo cups and brand new bag to store in. I’m not overly hung up on that, they were doing the best they could with what they had. If they were trying to cover anything up or misdirect evidence, why would they collect it? There was also no problem with the evidence in the sense that it wasn’t compromised and the samples had the expected dna profiles etc on them.
Even if the evidence wasn't compromised, the correct protocols were not followed. The crime scene was left unattended, blizzard or not, that should not have happened. It's odd to me that they were able to locate clear glass in the snow that morning, but no pieces of red plastic were found until later that day? Just too much reasonable doubt for me.
 
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Even if the evidence wasn't compromised, the correct protocols were not followed. The crime scene was left unattended, blizzard or not, that should not have happened. It's odd to me that they were able to locate clear glass in the snow that morning, but no pieces of red plastic were found until later that day? Just too much reasonable doubt for me.
They were definitely not prepared. I'm not familiar with police procedures etc, but would they normally carry evidence collecting items in their patrol cars? As far as they knew at the time of the call it was an accident?
 
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As far as I can tell from what I've watched/read, Proctor didn't go to the scene in the timeframe that it is alleged that he could have 'planted' the evidence though. The defence don't even go there with that angle because they know it's not possible. Brian Albert not coming out of his house also isn't an indication of guilt I don't feel - I'm not sure of the layout of his house but it looks massive and perhaps his bedroom was at the back. There was also a literal snowstorm outside so I think it's plausible they didn't hear anything at that time. I reckon the disposing of the phone was an attempt by Higgins not to have those 'saucy' texts read by anyone 😬😬
Higgins had an FBI buddy help him screen shot those texts before he got rid of the phone, so I don't think he was hiding them.
Brian Albert's bedroom window faces the front lawn, right above where the lights of the ambulance, fire engine and cop cars would have been flashing. Perhaps he has black out curtains, ok, maybe didn't notice the lights. But his sister in law was one of the women who found John. If John was such a good friend of hers, why was she not immediately in that house to get her brother in law who is a first responder to help until the EMT arrived? Why wasn't she worried that maybe something happened to her family as well given there was a dead cop on their lawn?
 
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Those of you who think guilty, would you be able to find her guilty as a juror?

Currently I think she didn't do it but even when I've had moments of thinking guilty, it's never been enough to take me over the threshold if it came to me being a juror.
 
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I feel like she’ll only be found guilty of drink driving, maybe guilty of death by drink driving
 
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I agree that is possible that happened.
What I am hung up on are the shady actions of everyone else who was in the house and the god awful investigation.
The unbelievable amount of butt dials, re-homed pets, disposing of phones one day before a preservation order. Evidence stored in solo cups and shopping bags, no chain of custody, red taillight found only after the car had been siezed. Proctor....just everything about him, so bad he was fired because of his actions on this investigation.
Plus, the injuries don't seem to line up with being hit by a car.
If we are to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how the commonwealth can meet that burden.
For anyone who did not watch the first trial, please listen to Trooper Paul, the commonwealth "expert" on how he says the collision happened 🙄
This is the thing for me, I don't necessarily think there was a huge conspiracy like the defence drummed in the last trial, but all of them seem like they're hiding things. All shady AF.
 
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This is the thing for me, I don't necessarily think there was a huge conspiracy like the defence drummed in the last trial, but all of them seem like they're hiding things. All shady AF.
Yes this! I think she definitely did it, but the others all are a bit strange!
 
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Plus Brian Albert had the basement floor replaced after the murder of John. There is no way a jury could find her guilty in my opinion.
 
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It's the whole web of people that makes me think this just couldn't be possible.

If John had somehow been attacked in the house - the timescale is literally minutes between Karen being seen out in the street in her SUV and then Jen McCabe starting to text saying 'hello where are you, pull in behind me' etc etc - I think I heard it was 9 minutes. So in those 9 minutes, John is murdered and Jen McCabe comes up with a plan to keep texting John as if she didn't see him? Or did he enter the house and not see her, and she didn't hear him being murdered? (How?)

Why would they then murder John, but dump his body on the front lawn? They weren't to know that Karen's tail light would get broken - but even if they had someone (who?) break it, they then needed someone to plant it (again, who? - and it's then introducing more and more people). They wouldn't have known that Proctor would get assigned the case, again, playing with fire.

John also had no defensive wounds on him whatsoever, so the belief would need to be that he entered the house and almost immediately was ambushed and struck on the head to incapacitate him, and then what, the people he's known for years put him on the front lawn without even checking he was dead first? (because he wasn't dead).

It all seems a bit too wooly for me when there's a perfectly logical and much more plausible cause of his death.

Edit: I have lost way too much time on this 😬
 
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The police definitely have not helped the prosecutions case whatsoever and I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to believe him after his behaviours came to light.
The podcasts and focus I’ve been binging on make good points about the evidence gathering - it was a literal blizzard, wild weather and they couldn’t get the tent to stay up because it was so windy. The blood collection kits are only to be used to swab blood and they realised that they couldn’t get a decent sample from the snow, so used a brand new and wrapped packet of solo cups and brand new bag to store in. I’m not overly hung up on that, they were doing the best they could with what they had. If they were trying to cover anything up or misdirect evidence, why would they collect it? There was also no problem with the evidence in the sense that it wasn’t compromised and the samples had the expected dna profiles etc on them.
Proctor (now fired) had John's clothes and the tail light pieces in his car for 6 weeks though and the defence weren't able to test them either. As far as I understand, the first time the defence got to see them was in the first trial. Keeping it in his car for 6 weeks is inexcusable. I don't get why they didn't use evidence bags, they surely must have had some in their cars? They used bags from the grocery store.
 
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As far as I can tell from what I've watched/read, Proctor didn't go to the scene in the timeframe that it is alleged that he could have 'planted' the evidence though. The defence don't even go there with that angle because they know it's not possible. Brian Albert not coming out of his house also isn't an indication of guilt I don't feel - I'm not sure of the layout of his house but it looks massive and perhaps his bedroom was at the back. There was also a literal snowstorm outside so I think it's plausible they didn't hear anything at that time. I reckon the disposing of the phone was an attempt by Higgins not to have those 'saucy' texts read by anyone 😬😬
Proctor and Bukhenik were meant to have recovered the majority of the tail light pieces over a couple of weeks after the 29th and Karen's car was never back there as it had been towed to the Sallyport so it doesn't make sense. Also if she had hit him then to break the tail light into that many pieces wouldn't they have been dragged down the road by the plough that came through later on that night? IDK it's weird
 
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Proctor (now fired) had John's clothes and the tail light pieces in his car for 6 weeks though and the defence weren't able to test them either. As far as I understand, the first time the defence got to see them was in the first trial. Keeping it in his car for 6 weeks is inexcusable. I don't get why they didn't use evidence bags, they surely must have had some in their cars? They used bags from the grocery store.
So I guess that leads onto the forensic evidence that had John’s DNA on the pieces of glass. Proctor didn’t go to the scene until the following day I think, so johns body would have been removed? How could he have gotten pieces of the tail light and managed to get it to touch Johns DNA? And how small shards were found in johns clothing. It would add yet another person to the ‘planting’ tail light evidence. I just don’t buy it. I hadn’t heard he had it in his car for 6 weeks though, that’s crazy.
 
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Does anyone know why they don’t bleep out the name of John’s niece during the court proceedings? I thought their names had been kept anonymous.
 
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