Karen Read Case

[Ittybittytittyclub]

I personally think it’s a big cover up and she’s innocent.

 

[Alfie1234]

What was Hank thinking yesterday? His own expert practically testified for the defence and then his redirect made it a hundred times worse!
Did anyone watch the Lori Daybell pre trial motions on Wednesday? That was utterly delicious, Judge Berensky has the patience of an actual saint with that woman. Would like to dip into the Idaho trial too but I won’t have time for all of this, my work colleagues think I’m nuts but I’d love to have someone to talk to in real time, this is all way better than Eastenders or Stacey and Joe.

Back to Karen Read, I think if they’d gone with manslaughter they might have had a chance, but after yesterday they’ve got no hope in hell in proving murder beyond reasonable doubt. That’s the crux of it, we can all surmise, guess, try and work out what could have happened but they have to prove she did it and so far they haven’t. There’s at too much to evidence showing how botched the investigation was and how they jumped to a conclusion and then were just lazy.

 

[SirHiss]

She absolutely did. Just like in LL case, the accused actually admitted it, yet we still try to create some crazy conspiracy theory.

But the commonwealth needs to prove beyond a reasonable that Karen hit him. Do you think they achieved that in the first trial?

Side note, I love the back and forth on this thread. Everyone has valid points and I think have been courteous to each other. I think this is a great example of what the jury will encounter and at the end of the day I think will be hung again.

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Love that there is a thread for this, I watched the full trial and now watching the retrial, she is so obviously innocent, there is too much doubt. Both Brian's getting rid of their phones, Michael Proctor is a pig and the judge is a joke!

Alan Jackson is amazing!!

 

[Alittlebitofme]

I also think if they reopen the pool that the Alberts had filled with concrete they might find the remains of a German Sheppard

 

[Nottonightbabe]

Also just seen that a juror from the first trial is now acting as a lawyer for Karen read for this second trial. Is that legal? Must be. Mad

Yeah apparently it's allowed. The juror was apparently appalled at the state's case against KR and wanted to help out the defence. So the story goes anyway!

 

[LondonCalling272]

The police definitely have not helped the prosecutions case whatsoever and I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to believe him after his behaviours came to light.
The podcasts and focus I’ve been binging on make good points about the evidence gathering - it was a literal blizzard, wild weather and they couldn’t get the tent to stay up because it was so windy. The blood collection kits are only to be used to swab blood and they realised that they couldn’t get a decent sample from the snow, so used a brand new and wrapped packet of solo cups and brand new bag to store in. I’m not overly hung up on that, they were doing the best they could with what they had. If they were trying to cover anything up or misdirect evidence, why would they collect it? There was also no problem with the evidence in the sense that it wasn’t compromised and the samples had the expected dna profiles etc on them.

Proctor (now fired) had John's clothes and the tail light pieces in his car for 6 weeks though and the defence weren't able to test them either. As far as I understand, the first time the defence got to see them was in the first trial. Keeping it in his car for 6 weeks is inexcusable. I don't get why they didn't use evidence bags, they surely must have had some in their cars? They used bags from the grocery store.

 

[carriebooboo]

Just listening to a podcast on this - madness! If her tail light is broken, John's hair is in the tail light, the broken glass is next to John on the ground, then how is that not a cut and dried case?

This is the position most people start from. Then they dig into it a little more and 36 hours of internet crazy later, it's less clear.

 

[theGC]

So happy there’s a thread for this now!
I’m 98% sure this was a cover up but 2% of me is like, but did she?
I’ve just put Emily d baker on who live streams it everyday as I like her explanations on things

 

[Carpediem69]

I watch Attorney Melanie Little on YT. I followed it all last year and could not believe the verdict.

The first two witnesses have been a total disaster so far in V2 - His mum is on the stand now but I doubt she will be cross examined by Alan Jackson.

At least Proctor was sacked and hopefully some others will be prosecuted for perjury - especially Jen McCabe who is so deep into this I’m surprised she hasn’t been thrown a life jacket.

I totally believe Karen was set up and the Albert’s and Higgins did the deed inside 34 Fairview and at 0330, when the Ford was seen outside the house, by the plough driver, the body was moved onto the lawn

#Hos long to die in the cold

 

[Alittlebitofme]

Plus Brian Albert had the basement floor replaced after the murder of John. There is no way a jury could find her guilty in my opinion.

 

[Tatvam]

So glad there's a thread on this case!
I watched the majority of the first trial and so far all of this retrial. I'm still a bit undecided...
I think the verdict has to be not guilty purely because of the botched investigation and the sheer amount of reasonable doubt but part of me thinks she did it. I also think something happened at the Alberts that night (maybe unrelated to John O'Keefe) involving Higgins that they were panicked about when the police started investigating that evening..

 

[swipeup25]

Thanks for setting this up. I'd love a big deep dive into this. I just saw a doctor on tiktok looking at his autopsy and he is saying it's a dog attack? Did anyone come across the dog theory before?

 

[juniperroad]

Commonwealth, since you have the burden of proof, just show us how he was killed by an SUV!

 

[Nottonightbabe]

I think every single person involved in this trial is shady in some way . I think they've all got something to hide. Not necessarily that there's a huge cover-up for murdering JOK, but certainly there's things people involved wanted hidden.

I'm not sure why the state were so determined to pin her for murder, manslaughter surely would have been a more realistic conviction to secure?

 

[SirHiss]

Just my opinion but I think she was that drunk she didn’t know she’d knocked into him that night. She drove them both to 34 Fairview, they argued as they pulled up, he got out the car and she was mad he did. She did a 3 point turn, knocked him down without realising then drove off as she just assumed he’d gone into the house.
She’s not guilty of murder but she was so drunk she doesn’t realise she’s hit him. There’s no hidden cop conspiracy- she’s gone on record to change her narrative multiple times and she’s suddenly remembered clear details (ie listening to U2 in the car) but it was a terrible drunken accident

I agree that is possible that happened.
What I am hung up on are the shady actions of everyone else who was in the house and the god awful investigation.
The unbelievable amount of butt dials, re-homed pets, disposing of phones one day before a preservation order. Evidence stored in solo cups and shopping bags, no chain of custody, red taillight found only after the car had been siezed. Proctor....just everything about him, so bad he was fired because of his actions on this investigation.
Plus, the injuries don't seem to line up with being hit by a car.
If we are to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how the commonwealth can meet that burden.
For anyone who did not watch the first trial, please listen to Trooper Paul, the commonwealth "expert" on how he says the collision happened

 

[LondonCalling272]

I think the interviews were a terrible idea. Most likely done as they thought it was definitely going to be a not guilty verdict and what they’ve ended up with is this footage coming out during the retrial. I don’t think Karen comes across as a likeable person but it’s not down to whether she’s liked or not.

Yesterday’s mess up with the shoe and Bukhenik’s testimony is just another example of how bad this case has been from start to finish.

Conspiracy wise… it really only needs a few people and it’s coming from the top down. Jen McCabe seems to have put herself in the middle of everything - 200 deleted calls in the space of that couple of days is sus AF. Also the text about “if she pleads it will go away if she doesn’t it will be an episode” before there was ever an arrest made.

I go by Occam’s razor the simplest answer is the right answer in general but there’s always an exception to the rule. So far the commonwealth still hasn’t proven it beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact ARCCA went to the extent of building a cannon and still couldn’t replicate anything to suggest John was hit by a car was enough for me.

 

[Nottonightbabe]

Thanks for setting this up. I'd love a big deep dive into this. I just saw a doctor on tiktok looking at his autopsy and he is saying it's a dog attack? Did anyone come across the dog theory before?

Yes, there's a theory that a fight occurred and the German Shepherd dog living at the address got involved. The dog was rehomed out of state.

 

[SirHiss]

Jen McCabe not waking up her sister and BIL and not going in the house to make sure they were OK given that there was a dead cop on their lawn is just too weird to me. How would she know something didn't also happen to them? That along with neither home owner coming out to see what was going on is just too suspicious for me to get past.

 

[LondonCalling272]

I’m not being disparaging at all. It’s a common theme amongst conspiracy theories or cover ups to try and find fault with absolutely everything. But where does it stop? Who isn’t involved? This is no more than a surface level case, with a defendant using her female white privilege to her best possible potential, and it’s working.

Had Jose the Uber driver dropped John off who then turned up dead, and he had a broken taillight, telling someone he’d hit him, there would be no cover up theories.

Timothy Nuttall & Katie McLaughlin’s testimonies changed from the first trial to the second. Jen McCabe lied to a grand jury and lied to the FBI, Kerry Russell lied to the grand jury - that’s not a conspiracy theory, that happened in court.