Jeremy Clarkson

[Lady_H]

This is just education. Being older isn’t an excuse not to take something on board, you always learn new things in life and society changes over time whether people like it or not, you can’t stop time just because it doesn’t suit you, it just carries on without you. There is a long history of injustices and crimes that are being set right in modern times and wording and phrasing has adapted. People are not trying to be smug to point out misinformation and try to prevent the mistakes of the past repeating themselves. I’m sorry that it seems unrealistic, a genuine mistake is something to learn from, to keep repeating it to prove a point is just being offensive. JC is well aware of what causes offence, he is purposefully offensive, some people clearly like it as a power trip.

Here we go with the “educating older posters” nonsense. How hilariously predictable you are.

Offence is entirely subjective. You know what I find offensive? Hijacking threads in order to indulge oneself in lengthy personal diatribes about racism that have nothing to do with the actual topic. Accusing other posters of ignorance when they don’t immediately agree with you. Announcing that only posters of certain ethnicities get to decide what racism is. Suggesting that articles such as JC’s should be criminalised. Making massive pejorative generalisations about large groups of people based on their skin colour, sex, and what they choose to read.

I find all that pretty offensive, but so what? I don’t expect you to be “educated” because you’re not living up to my personal standards of acceptable behaviour. I’m quite resilient enough to live with it and I’ll also defend your right to come out with all that rubbish because in a free country you have the right to say it. I wonder if you will afford others the same respect?

 

[plinky2]

Jeremy clarkson is willingly contracted to write an editorial with a racist, hate speech, misogynistic tabloid newspaper. I will indeed tar him with the same brush. Those who wish to distance themselves from this kind of behaviour and opinions do not associate with this kind of publication. JC is part of the media, he has a wide reach and a platform which he is choosing to be part of the gutter press. He should be called out on his choices.

@HairyWeeTerrier
I feel a bit sorry for you in some ways, as ignorance is always a pity. It is the case that the wealthy (mostly white) western world govern the income of poorer countries. To keep cost low to generate huge profits leads to desperate measures within the countries to keep up mass production. There are so many examples of this, Shein, sugar production to name only 2 which have been in the media recently where the working conditions are awful because the entire economy is reliant on the income from the U.K./US and they have no power to make internal changes or improve legislation because no one really cares about them, they just want the profits and products. People do indeed live in countries where everyone is seen as commodity, but that is driven by the wealthy countries who use these workforces. It was interesting to see you making it sound like it was a fair choice of a country in the Far East.

Countries who commit atrocities against their own citizens is obviously not always racism though is it, why would you think that? I’m not sure what you mean by this? I don’t really understand how you are linking those together, but anyway. It is often driven by money, and power. Our own country tore through most of the world gathering up peoples precious history, enslaving, stealing and killing and we are still seeing the fall out of the damage we did in many places, including Africa.

No one is mixed race, there is only 1 race in the world and it is the human race. It is someone’s ethnicity and their features that differ based on your ancestry and origins.

Going to London and seeing black waiters once and cutting your friend off for not liking them doesn’t give you a ‘I’m not a racist’ badge of honour because you did one decent thing once

 

[plinky2]

So is it not possible for white people to be racially abused?

If you are not BAME, you can’t know how a BAME person feels or tells them how to feel about racism directed at them.

If you are white and someone is racist against you for being white, that is racism against you for your skin colour and you will be in a place to decide how it makes you feel and your own experience. If you lived your entire life as a white person being discriminated against, held back, judged and scared for your future and kids future, simply for the main reason for being white, then this is obviously terrible. Is this happening to you?

This was about racism against a black woman, and I have seen this argument before and it is absolutely bizarre that anyone could even try to counter it, seen as white people are very rarely discriminated against in health care (with poor outcomes), education, the workplace etc in the same way that BAME people are.

I don’t think any normal intelligent person would think ‘hypothetically I could also experience racism one day too, even though I am not a minority group. therefore I know how it feels (in my imagination), and can tell BAME people what is or isn’t racist. It doesn’t matter how they feel about it, I’ve decided because it could happen to me I’m allowed to have an opinion on it, especially based on me not really liking that person very much’.

Just because someone might be a twat and you don’t like them doesn’t mean racism doesn’t exist or they don’t experience it. Jussie Smollet did something really terrible by creating a hate crime hoax but that is really extremely rare and he was found guilty in a court. Everyone has seen MM be subjected to racism and sexism, she isn’t on trial for this either, but those who don’t like her think she deserves it or pretend it didn’t happen.

I’m very glad JC is being held accountable. He is an intelligent, rich, educated well connected man. He knows better, he made an active choice to say what he said for clickbait/attention. He has played with fire and ruined his career opportunities all by himself.

JC and his ilk are becoming less and less acceptable and popular. I understand he has an appeal with a demographic of people who have fond memories of Top Gear and enjoy watching a grumpy old man complaining about everything and making jibes for entertainment but that kind of things is just not as relevant nowadays.

He’s cashed in, he’s loaded he will be fine in life even if he’s been ‘cancelled’

 

[181paul]

Well that’s what he does so why not?

Not sure that two wrongs make a right. No violence is to be condoned.

On a debate about being permanently offended by absolutely anything… people are getting offended! You couldn’t write this shit!

My confusion is back, sorry.
I have taken no offence from what you have said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. In fact I wish more people could be able to share their veiws without fear.
However, your post above is literally about you being that offended that you would assault somebody.
My first post was to put it in perspective how few people were actually offended.
You're gone to the trouble to show us how much you are offended.
In your eagerness to be offended you have not even realised how offensive some of your comments could be to others.

the old fart

Is this not age'ist?

So if he can’t learn some basic respect and manners while he is around women

Is this not sexist?
Surely anyone should be respectful around any gender.
That is the main problem. Everyone thinks that any offence they take is far more important than anybody else's.
I am not aiming to upset you. I mealy trying to point out the stupidness of the world we live in today.

 

[YetAnotherObsessionx]

Like @Justhereforthedrama said above, I don't really care either way about his comments about MM, I've seen worse.

I still can't quite decide whether I believe that what he writes is what he actually really thinks, OR what he knows will get him press attention and therefore earns him more money (or a combination of both, depending on the topic). Being controversial is profitable, afterall.

 

[plinky2]

Well, a guy at my husband's work punched someone there, got fired, and now works for another company in the same industry, so what's the solution, is he supposed to not work again or only do jobs that are something entirely different? Dunno if he likes sheep, though - maybe if I knew, I'd care more about what he does/doesn't do now

I haven’t punched anyone, but losing your job seems a light consequence really, it’s a criminal act of violence to punch someone and it’s not like he’s gone on to appear to be a nicer person. There are loads of men in showbiz who come out of these scandals pretty much ok, and some who don’t. The fact JC has anger issues is still apparent in his writing, in my opinion which is why I did not like what he wrote, I don’t like his attitude. I don’t like aggressive, entitled men. And that’s ok

I am baffled by why so many people are such rabid fans of his despite this though

It's not aimed at any one person, just a general exasperation with unrealistic expectations. I find it really stressful that we have to know exactly the proper thing to say at all times and that innocent mistakes can and have cost livelihoods.

Of course, that is not to downplay the seriousness and prevelance of bigotry and those who not only don't even try but actively offend as much as possible like it's noble or something.

This is just education. Being older isn’t an excuse not to take something on board, you always learn new things in life and society changes over time whether people like it or not, you can’t stop time just because it doesn’t suit you, it just carries on without you. There is a long history of injustices and crimes that are being set right in modern times and wording and phrasing has adapted. People are not trying to be smug to point out misinformation and try to prevent the mistakes of the past repeating themselves. I’m sorry that it seems unrealistic, a genuine mistake is something to learn from, to keep repeating it to prove a point is just being offensive. JC is well aware of what causes offence, he is purposefully offensive, some people clearly like it as a power trip.

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

This thread feels like a load of people talking double speak and double think in a very strange way. We can all have our own opinions and dislike each other’s opinions. You don’t need to go full Miss Marple picking apart every line sentence by sentence to try to find a ‘gotcha’ on me, I mean fill your boots if it makes you happy but I am not obliged to converse with you anymore if you can’t have a polite well reasoned 2 way discussion and can ignore.

I’m not going to change my mind, I think JC as a TV presenter on a show is something I can avoid - I don’t have to watch it, and it’s not really causing any harm to anyone from him presenting a game show, but when it comes to the main stream media, these views do have a wider reach, which are not simply avoidable, and they are damaging. Frankly he just makes himself look awful. his appeal is certainly ‘for a certain type’ of person who thinks Nigel Farage is an ok guy. He isn’t a serious journalist with integrity he is just a greedy man who wants to get paid, he doesn’t care about what he writes or the effect it has on anyone and in this way I don’t take him seriously - he is no one important, apart from his own pompous self importance.

The worst thing is watching all these pompous self important media types stomp around peacocking each other, he is just louder, more coarse and vulgar than the other types everyone is complaining about - they all just have big egos, think they are important and will sell out for cash. Some just do it more quietly. You are all arguing as if there are 2 sides, firstly is not a war, secondly these people are all cut from the same cloth

For someone who desires a polite well reasoned discussion, I feel that your posts do not reflect that. I find your manner very dictatorial and judgemental. Saying that men who like Clarkson and read the Sun are highly likely to dislike women. Now saying that his appeal is “for certain types”. There must be a great number of these certain types, because he has had great success over many years. Your comment that a man having his hand cut off is a lesser punishment than a naked woman having excrement thrown at her is an opinion that I doubt many would share. Please do not feel obliged to converse with us anymore, because we can chat away to each other without you. Your rather dogmatic dictates are unlikely to be missed.

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

I wonder if anyone else will make shows with him?

Perhaps this is coincidence, I should imagine he will get more contracts, he brings in reactions whether they agree with him or not. I certainly prefer him presenting Who wants to be a Millionaire.

 

[Yel]

I wonder if anyone else will make shows with him?

 

[coolcat2022]

He's probably been told to not say anything.

Piers Morgan has also been very quiet?? Are the gammons being ordered to shut up?

 

[MemoryLane]

I have been watching recent WWTBAM on catch up. The celeb episodes. Claire Balding came on and that man literally wedged his head up her arse. It was the worst bit of brown nosing I’d ever seen him take part in. He literally tossed one off over her education and grades and the fact she trained The Queens horses. A question came up, on literature, that she admitted she should have known as she’d been to a top uni! She didn’t know it. Rang a friend, who gave the wrong answer, so off she trotted.

Next contestant was Catherine Tildesley from Coronation Street. His opening statement after introducing her was something about her lack of achievements in life compared to Claire but nevertheless she’d got a job in Corrie. That’s not funny. That’s mean and patronising. She was quite gracious. Me, I’d of shoved the old fart off his stool!

As a rule, I don’t mind JC, I loved his farm show on Amazon. I like seeing him as a guest on chat shows. His comment on Meghan was absolutely vile. Would it stop me watching him? No, it hasn’t as I watched these episodes at the wknd, way after he said what he said. He’s of a generation where it was seen ok to talk to women like shit. Thats no excuse for him to still do it. He has a daughter, would he like someone to speak to her that way? He’s had job after job which have earned him millions. He doesn’t need the money. So if he can’t learn some basic respect and manners while he is around women for the sake of that money, he doesn’t deserve the opportunities he’s given. I say that as someone who doesn’t care for this cancel culture stuff! Rein it in or go away. There’s no need for it!

 

[Lico]

Seriously, there is a big difference between a joke between friends and discrimination. Unless you have experienced it you havny a clue.
I am a woman who works in engineering and almost exclusively with men. I weekly face sexism. I found out in my last role that I was on less money than men who had less experience and knowledge than me and were coming asking me for help. I regularly get passed over for promotion. I was subject to perverted comments by a cleaner at work, and instead of being disgusted by them, my male colleagues thought it was hilarious, hence basically validating the harassment, and making me out to be a troublemaker for not laughing. The list goes on, but sure its 9nly a bit of craic.

 

[coolcat2022]

Immac

I wonder where the fine line is, in between someone writing the GoT scene as entertainment to be viewed by millions of people, and someone else writing it as a newspaper article? At what point does it change from being unacceptable misogyny to being OK to watch on TV? Is it OK to write something like that about a fictional character and film a willing actress doing it, but it's not OK to write it about a real-life person? Are most people just so desensitised (if that's a word) to comments like this because we happily watch stuff like this all the time? Just wondering, by the way, not specifically asking you in person.

Completely agree. I’m shocked such a scene could feature in a widely watched and popular TV series.

I never watched one episode of GoT.

 

[Peachsquish]

The Sun shouldn't have apologised, nor should they have retracted the article...

All that does is to encourage those who didn't read it to project upon it things which were never said....
As opposed to - "what the fuck are feminists outraged about today?" and "yeah Harry couldn't fly an Apache" and "yes I hate Meghan more than Nicola Sturgeon and Rose West"...

And in doing so, the Sun has allowed the self-righteous - like yourself - to be self righteous in attacking an allowable hate figure, Jeremy Clarkson (who you are not forced to watch or read his opinion), and to decry a newspaper, which apparently, you do not read: and actively hate those who do.
(Oh save your fingers... you don't hate anyone... you are a virtuous person.. who has all the right opinions)

You are the worst kind of coward.

Willing to sacrifice nothing, in order to gain nothing, in the hope that others don't attack you for being nothing.

And in the process you drag in 96 ghosts to validate your utter moral vacuousness.
96 people who were never mentioned in the Clarkson article.

But in your cowardice, and craving for validation, you haul them in because ... reasons.

Wrong on all counts. Yes I read the Clarkson article and imo it was over the top Meghan Markle is in my view narcissistic but she hasn't sold Scottish women and children down the river like Nichola Sturgeon nor is she a serial killer like Rose West so for Clarkson to hate Meghan more is imo OTT.
Did the article particularly bother no, just rolled my eyes at the OTT bits and instantly realised he'd used a GOT reference.
Yes I read The Sun or at least what stories they post on their FB page, do I judge others for reading it or not reading it no.

Do I judge the Sun for letting actual lies about ordinary people stand with no apology whilst caving into a privileged narcissist some of whose followers wield the race card as though it were a bank card over an opinion piece by one of their writers. ABSOLUTELY AND UTTERLY

I have a quiet day today so please feel free to continue to project your own feelings of worthlessness onto me I have prayers enough to spare for you.

 

[wibble]

You're coming across as extremely unpleasant in your posts. Just saying.

ETA:
View attachment 1829095

Am I?
Gosh!
Why should I care what or whom you find unpleasant?

Particularly when you then go on to quote nonsense about "beguiling women" and "black women bamboozling white men". I neither know nor care what publication you have dragged these quotes from. Though I suspect it to be the type which for at least the past five years, has been peddling these accusations against Asian women (in particular).

I would supply the the numerous relevant citations.
But it would be sadly be of little use.
As you would not read them, for fear of an original thought entering your head.
You are clearly more intent on signalling your virtue, than actually possessing any.

But good luck with your witch hunting.
Just don't burn your fingers...

This thread has very quickly turned from being about Jeremy Clarkson to being about The Sun.

It was always about the Sun.
Certain types have been trained to hate it like Pavlov's dogs.

 

[wibble]

Not impressed by The Sun apologising so fast particularly after how many years it took them to apologise for the lies they printed over Hillsborough.
Neither was I impressed by Netflix using Hillsborough news stories for pretend headlines about Harry and Meghan

Give it a week or so, I'm sure you'll be praising the Sun's apology for the same political reasons you condemn Netflix.... but oddly not H&M (not the clothes shop)

 

[HairyWeeTerrier]

And the Jeremy Clarkson thread will be locked in 3.2.1....!

Probably a wise move

 

[lilyannrose]

So, If anyone is rude to you. You don't question them about it? Your first instinct is to assault them! Thanks for clearing up my confusion.

It's a concerning level of aggression on dispay from that poster!

I've never been a fan of Clarkson but as a rule I don't support this 'cancel culture' that has taken hold nowadays...however I do think people cross a line sometimes, and should face consequences. Clarkson had got away with a hell of a lot for years until he punched the producer, too.

 

[Campari]

I can't believe people are wasting time reporting him to the police.

 

[plinky2]

I, too, had no idea "far east" is supposedly an offensive term. This is the first time I've ever seen anyone claim it is.

As much as I dislike Clarkson and his ilk, I am sometimes just as uncomfortable with the constant and extreme language policing. From what I see it often just causes further division rather than heal any rifts but, more importantly, doesn't ever genuinely seem to be about sensitivity but a tactic used to close down discussion people don't like.

If this is aimed at me, it wasn’t me who made a fuss about this. I did say there is no such thing as mixed race which is a scientific fact, not one of my own snooty opinion . All humans are the same race, aka human so the term is outdated but still used as a descriptor and is a class based societal system