J. K. Rowling

[ShowMeYourFeline]

I can't even look beyond the use of narrow-minded given that you and everyone else in this thread is the epitome of it. I am a lesbian with trauma from rape and while I absolutely agree that not every person is going to be equipped to wax some balls or whatever else it might be, I can also recognise that it's a fairly... ridiculous argument to fight against trans rights and the existence of trans people. And that is where my issue lies. Because there is always a loophole with you guys, a reason why trans people shouldn't get to exist peacefully for the sake of the comfort of a few bigots who grasp at straws and pick out potential isolated incidents that could happen with cis men, etc.

Yaniv is an isolated incident that this thread is using to tar the entire trans community with. My own sexual trauma would never allow me to be with someone who has a penis - and aside from that, I am not attracted to them. I know that may upset some trans people; I know that will have me be painted a certain way by some, but that doesn't stop me from caring about trans people being afforded the same rights and respect as everyone else because I care deeply about making sure these people are helped, understood and protected from the horrible statistics that sit heavy in their existence.

What is this melodramatic shit about not wanting transwomen to exist? Do we just say our words, and they disappear into the ether in a puff of smoke?

They can do what the fuck they want. Just keep their male bodies and male pattern criminality AWAY from women and children.

Yaniv is NOT an isolated incident. That is an utter lie. There is an entire subreddit, r/thisneverhappens , dedicated to recording such crimes.

One that springs to mind is Karen White, a convicted bepenised rapist and paedophile who was put in a women’s prison, and who, surprise surprise, sexually assaulted his fellow inmates.

Another is teenage transgenderist Katie Dolatowski, who attempted to sexually assault a 10 year old girl in a women’s public toilet.

 

[HarderFaster]

To be fair I think the gender debate can do without the support of a creepy man who included a pages-long underage orgy scene in one of his most famous novels. Because six lads banging one girl is obviously the only way to rid the world of a killer clown .

 

[SqualorVictoria]

It’s the way some Transwomen shout down and verbally abuse anybody with a difference of opinion that scares me.

Yes. And the woke crowd so desperate to score brownie points want us women to quash our instincts. I'm not being dramatic when I say its instincts that can save a woman

 

[Kitt]

Will not be putting any money in JK Rowling’s pocket from now on. She is transphobic.

The sad thing as well is that she’s using her platform of over 14 million followers to be dismissive of autistic and trans people. She could be sharing resources to support black lives matter. That’s a choice she’s made and it says a lot.

I don’t want be arguing on here with anyone but these threads are becoming an echo chamber for JKR supporters and not a healthy discussion at all. Giving trans women rights does not take away from women’s rights. There’s not a limited number of rights to go around.

Trans women aren’t welcome in the women’s bathroom? So you expect them to use the men’s? Do you think they will be welcome there either? Do you think they would feel safe? They would be vulnerable to violence themselves if a trans woman presenting as a woman went in the men’s. What it boils down to is that trans women just aren’t welcome. Full stop. That’s transphobia. Trans women are not a danger to women. They just want to use the loo.

Remember, black people weren’t allowed to use white people’s facilities due to segregation and people not feeling safe around black people because of the narrative that black people are dangerous and less than. That’s racism. Apply it to transgender people and it’s transphobia.

Yes you’re allowed your opinions and you can die on your hills saying it’s for women’s rights but in the end you’re still transphobic. JKR is using her platform to fuel hatred towards trans people and say it’s in the name of women’s rights. Trans and non binary people are hurt by it. They should be allowed to live their lives the way they feel comfortable and feel safe doing so.

 

[Scotch Mist]

I can't get over this. If you worked in the publishing house and didn't want to take part because 1. You don't believe in silencing women and 2. You just want to get the hell on with your job unlike spoilt authoritarian brats, does this mean you're crossing the picket line and would be deemed a bigot, transphobe, terf? I am so sick of this all

Frankly if I was JK I'd be looking for another publisher. If the Managing Editor has any sense these workers will be disciplined/suspended. Who do they think is keeping the company in business? JK sells a lot of books and most publishers would be desperate to have her on their list.

As i said before I worked in publishing for 20 years and Ive never heard of this happening before. It smacks of censorship, mob rule and totally goes against the idea of a free press.

 

[Scotch Mist]

Sadly I fear that due to general ignorance and stupidity women have already lost this battle.



Look at the abuse Germaine Greer has had to put up with (as well as JK) the bullies have already won.

 

[Brightstar72]

Fuck you Daniel Radcliffe. How dare you speak over and speak for a woman like that, especially the woman who made you everything you are.
Notice how he said 'trans women are women' but not 'trans men are men.' It's always, always about men.
Men's "needs" and feelings will always come before women's.

He makes me sick with his patronising mansplaining, women know thy place shtick

 

[judsmum]

On another note, did anyone see the anonymous message Posie Parker received from a TRA? I've placed it in a spoiler as it's very disturbing.

In my eyes the people who are calling women like me TERFs are siding with people like this:

Where’s the member who’s just called us Terfs (or the ones who think they’re being all covert by just clicking sick/angry emojis on all our posts ) what’s your opinion on this? You want these wankers changing next to your little girls? You think these men would be safe around women in a refuge? You want your bumps feeling.

 

[Inforapenny]

I only ever voted Green. However they came out as massive trans pushers and absolutely shitting on women so I'll never vote for them again.

The Tories are disgusting, they are sinister and evil BUT they probably wouldn't allow trans activism to win and encroach on female spaces.

What a head fuck!

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Did anyone catch this on Twitter?



Tom Felton: “Hi I’m Emma Watson and I played Hagrid”

Is he taking the piss out of everyone shouting for the revision of history and Emma & Daniel Radcliffe to be the “new authors” of Harry Potter

Absolutely love this. How he manages to keep a straight face I don’t know.

Emma Watson is the definition of faux feminist. She support the kind of feminism that is more palatable to the general public rather than the nitty gritty feminism that actually matters. Don’t even get me started on ‘he for she’ talk about putting men In the centre in a women’s movement. I can totally believe a few HP cast members have been speaking with JKR in private about this and although I wish more would be brave enough to speak up and stand with her publicly, I can understand why some would be reluctant. Keep an eye on the ones who have stayed silent (and also John Cleese what a legend).

 

[HockyRorror]

Not to me! She’s an absolute inspiration! Thank god for her raising awareness of this insanity

She is iconic. I didn’t think it was possible I would love her more than I did, but the stance she is taking even with all the shit, rape threats, violent and murderous threats flung at her and she still manages to remain calm and classy - she is an absolute legend.

no need to angry face my comments
I’ve been very open about the fact I know next to nothing about her narrative on this topic.
I dislike her as a person ,
thats ok you know, we don’t all need to like the same people

I'm very glad you are inspired by her. everyone needs an inspiration.

Right, but we’re knee-deep in the middle of a serious discussion about an issue that you said you know nothing about and have interrupted it by saying you don’t like her. Of course it’s okay that you don’t like her and it’s also okay that you’re getting angry faces on your comments because it’s the nearest reaction to show disagreement with what you’re saying!

 

[jewelkitty]

I said this on the other thread so sorry for my repetition but I dared to share the essay on fb last night. All I said was "I support Jk Rowling." Got one old lecturer who I was fond of dramatically announce "this is where we part ways" and immediately unfriended me after 9 years of knowing each other. The only other person who showed objection (besides the silent few who just unfriended me) said JK "being cursed at" (lol?! I wouldn't call that being cursed at, it was vitriolic abuse) was no excuse for her prejudice, blah blah. He compared it to the Irish marriage equality referendum. He actually thinks that the argument that was relevant to the vote, which was that gay people marrying each other does not affect any one else (very true), is also relevant to trans activism. What a joke. It affects everyone! He summed up that little comment using intersex people as an argument (surprise, surprise). Both people commented and immediately unfriended me so they wouldn't see my replies to them. Utterly childish. I did however have more support in likes and private messages saying they agree but are too afraid to show support for JK.

Also, I'm starting to wonder. Are these views a generational thing? Are the views different between younger and older women, or is it just that older women give less of a shit and are less afraid to speak out?

 

[LittleMy]

It would have prevented Katie Dolatowski being in the ladies toilets in the Morrisons in Kirkcaldy when, on two separate occasions, Katie filmed a 12-year-old girl over the cubicle wall and sexually assaulted a 10one-year-old girl while her father waited for her outside. Katie was convicted of voyeurism and sexual assault.

I read about that case. Truly shocking. Did they not get placed in a woman’s hostel after being convicted too? This is why women and girls need to keep their safe spaces, to protect them from monsters like that.

 

[kat.becs]

My son is trans (FTM) and thankfully we've not really had any huge hiccups in terms of his acceptance. His friends are great, our family are great. His bio dad... not so great, but he's not in his life anyway. He finds it hard that there are some 'activists' out there that ARE taking it too far. He couldn't give a rats ass about a lot of the issues being brought up by these people. The phrase 'women menstrate' doesn't bother HIM but he says he knows others that it does bother. but he thinks there's bigger fish to try.

Anyway re: the bathrooms. He looks like a boy, but he does opt for unisex bathrooms if there is one. If not, he will go to the women's bathroom because he worries what people would say if he uses the mens. Personally I don't think anyone would even notice but it's his choice. He'll go in the mens if he's with his brothers but otherwise he goes in the female. It doesn't bother him that much right now if he really needs the bathroom, but he usually tries to avoid going in public to save the hassle of trying to decide. Does he go into the male and risk people calling him out for not being a cismale? Or does he go into the female and risk being called a boy?

I think unisex bathrooms are a useful solution for that dilemma (alongside a female/male bathroom, not instead of) but I also don't really personally see the issue with letting transwomen use female bathrooms, and vice versa. But obviously I have factors that could make that opinion biased.

 

[Zenchick101]

Trouble with the online world is Twitter is an echo chamber for activists and does not necessarily reflect the wider public, everything seems to be an extreme pile-on. One example is before the last government election, if you believed Twitter it was likely to be a Labour landslide but evidently the reality was not the same and I remember the disappointment and disbelief on Twitter the next day. Often opinions that are strong on social media are just far more concentrated than if you extrapolate it to the general population.

I beleive that anyone who wants to transition, can, and should, but I do object to womens' safe spaces being compromised by the few people who happen to have male sex organs and in some cases aggressively insist on doing so. Misogyny is real and is very hateful. I think going forward public buildings need to have more single stall unisex toilets facilities alongside male only or female only facilities so that every one can have a choice they deem safe. I do not hate anyone for what gender they perceive themselves, but I want a womens only toilet. But if I said this on Twitter there would be an onslaught. Women should be able to keep the spaces such as single sex changing facilities. It seems on twitter you can't have mutually reasonable and open discussions. If you don't pander to the activist party line then apparently you are evil in their eyes for saying something like "I feel safer in single sex toilet".

Personally, I will always use peoples' preferred pronouns, I will respect peoples' right to dress and present however they wish. I would petition for adjacently available single stall unisex toilet facilities for the comfort and safety of all. But I would also expect people fo undersrand that for many women, single sex couselling groups, changing rooms, hospital wards etc should not be given up. From the dawn of time women have typically been physically smaller in build and disenfranchised compared to males. Many women can feel inherently unsafe in public situations. I hate that a lot of activists disregard any legitimate fears women might have, without actually listening and empathising.

I am not homophobic and I empathise that life must very hard for non binary and trans people too. It is a very sensitive topic and I wish everyone would be calmer and dicsuss kindly. Perhaps one day soon we can come to an acceptible way of providing safe spaces for everyone, not at anyones' expense.

TLDR; it is in my view possible to agree with JK Rowling whilst being emapthetic to all, including trans people. Women should not lose their identity in the process, or safe spaces, but society must move forward and consider how to provide for everyone. Compassion for all sides, and not misogyny, is needed.

This is really close to how I think I feel about it all, what's funny is that in my country that's a really progressive way to view the whole thing - most people would laugh. Maybe it's because I grew up before it was trendy to be "woke" but changing in front of other women is a bit intimidating already and changing in front of someone with a male body would make me really uncomfortable.

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

Can I just say the Canadian rape shelter, Vancouver Rape Relief, has not closed down. After they lost their local government funding for not accepting males, lots of terves donated their own money to keep it open
Agree with everything else you say though ZenChick101!

Many of this shelter’s residents are indigenous women. In Canada, indigenous women face a very disproportionate risk of being killed. Some of this is due to high rates of problems in their communities like domestic violence, alcoholism etc, and some is due to vulnerable women turning to prostitution. This shelter helps those women who might end up as statistics, and for all the bleating SJWs do about missing and murdered Indigenous women, they want to shut it down for not agreeing with their opinion.

 

[openbook1]

 

[Jaybtee]

Was searching for a JKR post this morning after last night on Twitter! Also agree it’s brave as it’s not the popular opinion..

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I'm not saying she shouldn't have free speech and talk about issues that are important to her but these people all seem like brands so from that pov it's just puzzling that's all.

I also get what you're saying but it's her personal account and I don't see why she should outsource her thoughts and voice to a PR department. This isn't really directed at you but it would be a frightening state of affairs if everyone had to run something past a PR person

 

[Meh]

In this and the gender discussions thread, many people have posted concerns and not one of those have been addressed by TRAs- for example, the issue of transwomen being allowed to compete in womens sports. The other argument I've seen about people worrying about the dangers of allowing male bodied people into female only spaces is "men are going to do that anyway" (paraphrasing). I have not seen a single valid counter argument. I'm a progressive liberal borderline Marxist hippy so my concerns in no way stem from an irrational hatred of trans people. GC people here don't want trans people to be unhappy. We recognise that gender dysphoria is a genuine condition.

Agreed. There has been no argument or position stated to counter these issues. Indeed on the gender discussion thread some TRAs have been quoting only small sections of a post and ignoring the rest. I.e. the bit they have no answer for.

It’s fascinating to me that people who are pro TRA arguments often end up saying “I’m blocking now for my mental health” or similar, during these discussions.

Personally if I was being so heavily affected by other people’s opinions to the point I had to make a swift exit for my mental health, I would really question it. Question why I am so triggered by these opinions and facts.

It’s not something I can say I’ve ever experienced before. Recently I’ve been having a lot of robust discussions about race on Facebook, with some “all lives matter” types. It can be frustrating, but I’ve always had something to say to them, always had an argument to oppose theirs, and even though their blatant racism offends me and angers me, I’ve never thought to bow out of the discussion to “protect” myself.

I also see a lot of TRAs insisting to just block JKR, don’t read her essay, don’t try and understand what so-called TERFs are saying, it’s all toxic manipulation etc etc. This kind of attitude isn’t going to help anyone develop their arguments? You have to know what the opposite side is saying if you want to properly refute it.

I also note how a lot of pro TRA women base all their arguments on a friend or family member who is trans. Perhaps that means they refuse to see the bigger picture that gender critical feminists are trying to paint for them. It’s emotive instead of factual. I can completely understand that. It must mess with your head when you know your loved one is a good person and yet here women are giving you factual evidence that the wider ideology your loved one is involved in is potentially harmful to you (and harmful to them, too).

Yes! This.

This concept of everyone being triggered by opinions melts my mind.

Ironically, a woman being triggered following experiences of DV/sexual violence and having an issue with males in women only spaces... oh that’s not allowed. She’s a terf. She’s transphobic. She’s close minded. She’s exaggerating.

So, we compare: person being put into situation of triggering PTSD following extreme trauma gets “called out” and needs to “embrace discomfort”

with-

“cis” (urgh) person who is woke AF getting their feelings hurt online and having to ‘protect their mental health’

fuck off

That makes me so angry - what right does this MAN have to upset, goad and taunt women? What a truly obnoxious piece of work.

OmGzzz how dare you? SHE is a woman! You TERF. Some people are trans; get over it?! Like, people are who they say they are. Like, trans rights are human rights.

Nope. Thought I could embrace TRA life, couldn’t do it.

Seriously though. What a horrid human being! Taking joy out of upsetting and intimidating others. For someone who wants equality (debatable- still very much enjoying their male privilege) he’s got no problems in making others feel fear and discomfort.