J. K. Rowling

[Lanavalentine]

If someone wants to rape a woman, they are going to do so almost always regardless of the setting or context. Allowing trans women to use the bathroom which matches their gender is not going to make men think differently or make them dress up in order to "trick" people. One person's doings do not speak for the entire community, especially given that anyone who would take advantage of a situation like that more likely than not is not in fact trans. Rape does not discriminate; it does not care where you are, as I've sadly realised, but using that as your main reason for why trans women should not be allowed in women's bathrooms is harmful, assumptious, and is no better than the stigma that all gay men are predators. I can absolutely see your dilemma in regards to your trauma; I empathise with it a lot, and I wish I had a solution because my ideal scenario is that everyone is comfortable - which I know is too fantastical. But my problem lies with people who are using their bigotry towards trans people in general (bigotry that goes beyond just the bathroom discourse) to paint them as being inherently predatory or lesser because of their genitalia or transness.

I truly appreciate that you seem to have a very strong desire to see the good in people, but this part of your post is incorrect.

Yes, rapists will find a way to rape, regardless. However, Self ID makes it easier, and already dangerous, predatory men are taking advantage of this. It’s making it easier for them - it’s essentially just removing one more barrier for them.

I agree that you don’t tend to see genitals in the ladies loos. But it’s not just toilets - women-only hospital wards, domestic abuse refuges, changing rooms, women’s prisons. Those are areas where you may well see genitals, and they also have a large proportion of vulnerable women.

Again, it’s not bigotry to be concerned that predatory men may co-opt a trans persona to gain easier access to women, or to believe that some transpeople may be dangerous - this is already well documented, and examples have been given on the thread.

 

[Vanillaco]

But that's exactly what you want, because in your mind, trans women are men.

Anyway, I'll be honest, I'm scared of so much hatred (masked as fear and concern) from typical Karens who think they're fighting a feminist fight. I fully disagree with all of you and will now, genuinely, leave you to celebrate yourself and Rowling. Carry on.

What about women's refuges and rape crisis centres? Why can there not be separate spaces for transwomen in order to ensure that women who have been raped still access services that they may not access if a man is in there? If transwomen are allowed to change their sex on their birth certificates, all sex based protection is gone. Women cannot say they dont want to share a space with any biological male because they have experienced trauma because that person can say they are female, despite having a penis. If a man puts on a dress, their physical strength and ability to overcome the average woman does not disappear. It's still there. The Trans rights arguments never address women's concerns. Violence against women and trans women is overwhelmingly committed by men. Yet male violence against trans people is never addressed. All the abuse, death threats and rape threats are aimed at women.

 

[ShowMeYourFeline]

Who the fuck does he think he is thinking he can apologise on her behalf?

 

[PinkBogeyBreath]

Has anyone read the statement Mermaids have released addressing JK and her essay? Instagram is full of fawning comments etc about how brilliant it is but it absolutely isn’t! It completely brushes over all the valid points she made and focuses on the semantics of things like how they officially change gender instead.

Example:

“To address the core of your point, trans rights do not come at the expense of women’s rights. We see no evidence that trans girls are a threat to other girls in any way. Indeed, it is transgender children who often suffer horrific bullying at school and at home. And, as you will have seen, it is transgender adults who are made to feel afraid in modern British society, by those who would seek to characterise them as a threat without any evidence or justification and in the face of considerable evidence to the contrary.”

So, just basically sliding right past anything relating to the right to women and girls to have a penis free environment to change in or use the toilet in. The fact women’s sports are being taken away by men. And then straight to the usual “me me me” or “us us us” pattern.

Then they talk about JK having no evidence that women want safe same sex spaces. Of course she has no evidence, we aren’t bloody allowed to talk about the issue without being threatened with violence, abuse, or losing our jobs!

Then they bleat about there being no evidence that women are at risk in refuges when trans people are present. Completely ignoring the fact that plenty of women would not feel safe sharing the space with a biological man but again WE ARENT ALLOWED TO SAY SO. Women just won’t access the spaces instead putting them at further risk. But for mermaids, this doesn’t count.

I can’t even get into the rest of it because I think I’ve reached my limit now with how absolutely insane and widespread this whole brainwashing is. I just feel so so sad about it all. Reading this bollocks of a statement and seeing people gush over it like it makes any sense whatsoever.

A tiny part of me hopes this is just an internet thing and in real life the majority of people see sense but then to see normal people who I thought had brains commenting on this shit has blown my mind.

Sorry for the word vomit but I’m just :O at it all. The statement is proper patronising to JK too making jokes that opening bathrooms wide would be “smelly”.

 

[creme.egg92]

What annoys me most re the toilets thing is the people saying ‘if men want to hurt you a sign isn’t going to stop them.’ Like no, obviously not. But I’ve seen security throwing men (and I mean tall beardy extremely obviously male/presenting as male) out of women’s toilets on a few occasions. A few weeks ago, a Muslim lady was going into a toilet in front of me and her husband tried to follow her in - when I said sorry this is the ladies’, he left. If anyone can self ID as a woman this makes it so much easier for predatory men to walk in. We are not saying it’s necessarily trans women who will hurt us, or even that ‘men will pretend to be trans to access the toilets yikes who would bother to do that!!!’ because the whole point is with self ID nobody has to pretend to be anything. Any random man can loiter in the toilets and if questioned, can simply say they’re trans and we cant do anything about it. There is a huge difference even between letting trans women in the female toilets and letting people self ID. And the difference is so obvious to me that I feel people who deny it are either too stupid to function, or just hate women and don’t care about our safety.

 

[Lanavalentine]

I can't even look beyond the use of narrow-minded given that you and everyone else in this thread is the epitome of it. I am a lesbian with trauma from rape and while I absolutely agree that not every person is going to be equipped to wax some balls or whatever else it might be, I can also recognise that it's a fairly... ridiculous argument to fight against trans rights and the existence of trans people. And that is where my issue lies. Because there is always a loophole with you guys, a reason why trans people shouldn't get to exist peacefully for the sake of the comfort of a few bigots who grasp at straws and pick out potential isolated incidents that could happen with cis men, etc.

Yaniv is an isolated incident that this thread is using to tar the entire trans community with. My own sexual trauma would never allow me to be with someone who has a penis - and aside from that, I am not attracted to them. I know that may upset some trans people; I know that will have me be painted a certain way by some, but that doesn't stop me from caring about trans people being afforded the same rights and respect as everyone else because I care deeply about making sure these people are helped, understood and protected from the horrible statistics that sit heavy in their existence.

Where have I said trans people shouldn’t exist peacefully? Where have I said I don’t want trans people to have rights?

You are either misunderstanding or deliberately twisting what we are saying? We even agree on the fact that lesbians shouldn’t be forced to sleep with people who have a penis (indeed, nobody should be forced to sleep with anyone they don’t want to).

This is the fact of the matter: I do not want trans people to be able to take away women’s rights, so that means I do not support self ID, or the idea that trans people can change sex.

I do fully support trans people (and everyone) to live as they want to, dress how they want to, call themselves whatever they want to... it’s when it hurts other people that it becomes problematic, and the recent demands of the trans community ARE hurting women and girls.

Feminists have been trying to have a peaceful and respectful conversation about this issue for years, to try and find a conclusion that is fair to all. Instead, trans people and their allies scream us down with falsehoods, twisting our words, shouting “transphobic” at the mere mention of biological sex, getting us deplatformed, fired from our jobs, outing where our kids go to school, encouraging violence against us... just because we want to protect the hard-earned, necessary sex-based rights that protect vulnerable women and girls.

That, to me, is absolutely narrow-minded. I truly hope that when you next reject a transwoman, they don’t come for you violently, or force you out of your LGBT safe spaces, or harrass you and stalk you. Because that is happening to lesbians. That is happening to my friends.

 

[Basicbasic]

Someone has convinced you that your womanhood and women’s spaces are in jeopardy because 1% of the popular have the right to live how they please, with the dignity and respect everyone else receives.

And for this very very powerful male-born, mainly white 1%, 100% of women have to relinquish their safe spaces and freedoms? And what happens when that 1% want to live with dignity and respect in a female prison but end up raping the women in there, or taking photos upskirt of teenagers in toilets, or insisting their penis is given a bikini wax by a teenage beautician in a female only salon?

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

I was trawling through twitter and I found this
View attachment 172576

‘Not all trans people’ but holy hell, one creep is too many. I expect my daughters to be able to try clothes on or get changed in a changing room without being filmed by some creep who shouldn’t be there in the first place. I don’t give a flying fuck if not all of them are fucking weirdos, but enough are to make me incredibly defensive and protective especially over my daughters. Fuck this fucking shit. My daughters safety, and everyone else’s daughters safety, is not fucking collateral for these mentally ill men. Trans people who aren’t deranged need to start speaking up and ostracising these people in a big way, because they are taking over the narrative and that will hurt genuine trans people in the long run. Not just sit there and let it all happen because it still benefits them in some way in the now.

Women’s spaces exist for a fucking reason. Seems like many people supporting this nonsense have forgotten that.

 

[jewelkitty]

I appreciate your response and in many ways I can see where you’re coming from. Just want to address some of your points:

I think the point about a predatory male will attack anyway is a bit of a strawman. The issue with proposed self ID is that it will make it easier for predatory males to attack, and they’ll have a built-in get out clause if, for example, they’re caught in the women’s loos. In my mind, a similar analogy would be hens kept safely within a hen house, surrounded by wire - a particularly aggressive fox may try to get into the hen house anyway, and may succeed, but does that mean we’d remove the wire as it doesn’t always work?

I don’t think anyone is denying transpeople a space. Most gender critical women advocate for third spaces. It’s just that some women do not feel it’s fair to roll back their own safety to make room for others - it’s like being asked to put transwomen’s safety above our own, which is quire misogynistic if you ask me.

Re: trans kids, I don’t think the world believes that at all. There is anectdotal evidence of it sometimes happening, and there was a doctor who was shut down for supplying hormones illegally on the internet. Also, there has been whistleblowers at the Tavistock who have highlighted problems with the “affirm affirm affirm” approach. I think this is what alarms people and is where the problem lies. Puberty blockers can cause irreversible damage, yet many trans people declare them harmless. That is not ok.

Lastly, I think the issue with “people who menstruate” is that it is silencing a marginalized group - women. Many women are very vulnerable and rely on biological terms to describe themselves. I don’t think it’s fair for one marginalized group (trans) to enforce their issues on another (women), when women are still struggling to get the help and recognition they deserve with issues that affect biological women exclusively. From it taking seven years on average go diagnose endometriosis, because of patriarchal and misogynistic standards in western medicine, to girls dying in period huts in Nepal, women are affected by their biological sex the world over and taking the right to use the correct words to describe themselves to accommodate a much smaller group is simply not fair.

Many people of different races are recently complaining about being lumped together under the BAME term, as they have different experiences, and I think it’s a similar problem here. It’s very much like saying “non men”.

I just have to share this in response to the fox analogy!

 

[thetemptationisreal]

Fuck JK Rowling.

 

[emmer_moans]

I know it took me a very long time to go ahead with a smear test and there's absolutely no way I would have felt comfortable with a male conducting it. Women should be able to choose to decline on these grounds. I wish I was less anxious on those situations but it took a lot of mental battling to even go for the test with the idea of women doing it. Sometimes I don't think people understand this built in and learned fear of intimacy with strangers, whether that be changing in an gym changing room or having in intimate clinical procedure.

 

[Inforapenny]

What irks me is that quite rightly western society is being more open to speaking about mental illness and being open about personal struggles and having mental health battles. However the moment you suggest trans kids/people who want to mutilate their bodies are mentally ill you're called transphobic!

The goal posts are constantly moving to fit entitled men.

I also find it quite ridiculous that a man has to tell me that other men are women just because they don't have the same anatomy and have never walked in the shoes of a biological woman.
Owen Jones is a little snake for this

Surely if your not being transphobic & neither is JK then why be scared to be public with your views.
if you choose to hide your feelings when not on an anonymous forum, maybe you should think about the other point of view

Because the world is run by men

 

[Inforapenny]

I apologise. Maybe I wasn’t clear. If you’re having a female clinician, generally they will need to talk you through the procedure to get your consent. At any point you can say that you would like an additional female chaperone. (Maybe this isn’t common knowledge). A surgery isn’t considered transphobic for asking you if you would like a female champerone, or even a different chaperone if you don’t like the one you currently have. It’s not that deep- they just want to put your mind at ease and make you comfortable. At the end of the day they want to treat you safely. they can’t do that if you’re distressed or upset by something.

Are you for real? I do understand the process as someone who Unfortunately has been in and out of breast clinic
Have a look at the trans activism and the vile , disgraceful garbage they spew if you dare say they are not women.
Seriously they literally would argue a wall is red when it's blue!
So are you telling me a trans nurse would be ok with the hospital or surgery asking the patient if a WOMEN/FEMALE can be present instead of them?

And for what it's worth why the hell should an additional rigmarole be placed on the patient?
I'd be quite open if a trans nurse was there and say no thank you but I suppose I'm a gobby outspoken woman. Many other women and girls in this woke society would feel uncomfortable with saying no.

Makes me so mad that women are put upon

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Whatever the arguments for or against whatever it is JK Rowling has been tweeting about, you have to wonder why she feels the need to waste her time posting on Twitter. If had her wealth and luxurious lifestyle I"d be out there having fun in the real world, having lavish holidays, going out for expensive meals and generally living the high life.

You have to wonder why her life's seemingly so empty that she's wasting it arguing with dysfunctional idiots on social media.

I'm terrified of speaking up publicly on this. There is nothing "empty" about speaking up for what you believe in. She could be doing all those other things at the same time too although thanks to covid I doubt anyone is going on lavish holidays

Besides, she hasn't posted anything since the open letter.

 

[LittleMy]

I know it took me a very long time to go ahead with a smear test and there's absolutely no way I would have felt comfortable with a male conducting it. Women should be able to choose to decline on these grounds. I wish I was less anxious on those situations but it took a lot of mental battling to even go for the test with the idea of women doing it. Sometimes I don't think people understand this built in and learned fear of intimacy with strangers, whether that be changing in an gym changing room or having in intimate clinical procedure.

Exactly. They aren’t the most comfortable procedure as it is. Add a nurse who is clearly a biological male to the scenario and either the woman is going to put up and shut up for fear of being labelled transphobic at the expense of her own comfort, or they will be put off going altogether to avoid the situation and potentially risking their own health. Unfortunately not every woman is as forward or straight to the point as the woman in the article (and even she got abuse for exercising her right to a female nurse).

 

[Brightstar72]

What was wrong with the term “people who menstruate”? It didn’t exclude anyone and it referred to everyone the article was about...

When the prostrate is referred to being owned by “people with prostrate cancer/people who require a prostrate examination” then obviously, nothing at all!

What are men doing to make room in their spaces for transpeople? I’d love to know

 

[SilentSue]

It amazes me that in an increasingly secular society, so many people subscribe to (and base 'rights' on) statements of pure faith, with no material proof, i.e. "transwomen are women" and "transmen are men". Transphobia is such a flimsy concept, and such an easy accusation to throw around, precisely because it is based on these weak statements.

 

[LittleMy]

I know it’s not JKR related, but I’m glad to see the outrage in the comments on this. I’m not a fan of this third rate band, but to bring racism (and the death of George Floyd in particular) into it is fucking low.

 

[PinkBogeyBreath]

As an aside, I’m happy for people to have the right to live their lives how they want. Unisex bathrooms, unisex changing rooms, unisex rape counselling, unisex sport competitions etc should all be available so everyone can choose to access them if they need to but the problem is that is never enough for these people. They want access to women’s spaces. Nothing else is enough.

 

[Hunnaybadgerz]

So happy to see two pampered, white males tell a woman what she should think about her own safety and body.