J. K. Rowling

[londongirl2001]

Holy shit, I've just checked this thread for kicks, to see what is being said. All the transphobes are here! This is the most disgusting thread I've ever read, I'll be honest. I know you are all very proud of your hatred and are inspired by your chief Karen, but holy moly, none of you are ok. Not in the slightest. I'm out of here. Have a good life. *shudders*

Oh, and spreading hatred against a vulnerable group in society does not fall under freedom of speech. That is the same rhetoric racists use. But I guess you knew that.

 

[maytoseptember]

Anyway, I'll be honest, I'm scared of so much hatred (masked as fear and concern) from typical Karens who think they're fighting a feminist fight.

Facts aren’t hate.

As for “Karens” - please take your internalised misogyny and don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

 

[Lanavalentine]

It’s fascinating to me that people who are pro TRA arguments often end up saying “I’m blocking now for my mental health” or similar, during these discussions.

Personally if I was being so heavily affected by other people’s opinions to the point I had to make a swift exit for my mental health, I would really question it. Question why I am so triggered by these opinions and facts.

It’s not something I can say I’ve ever experienced before. Recently I’ve been having a lot of robust discussions about race on Facebook, with some “all lives matter” types. It can be frustrating, but I’ve always had something to say to them, always had an argument to oppose theirs, and even though their blatant racism offends me and angers me, I’ve never thought to bow out of the discussion to “protect” myself.

I also see a lot of TRAs insisting to just block JKR, don’t read her essay, don’t try and understand what so-called TERFs are saying, it’s all toxic manipulation etc etc. This kind of attitude isn’t going to help anyone develop their arguments? You have to know what the opposite side is saying if you want to properly refute it.

I also note how a lot of pro TRA women base all their arguments on a friend or family member who is trans. Perhaps that means they refuse to see the bigger picture that gender critical feminists are trying to paint for them. It’s emotive instead of factual. I can completely understand that. It must mess with your head when you know your loved one is a good person and yet here women are giving you factual evidence that the wider ideology your loved one is involved in is potentially harmful to you (and harmful to them, too).

 

[creme.egg92]

I can’t tell you all how relieved I am to have found this thread. Self ID terrifies me as a prospect. Even scarier are the friends and colleagues I have, many of whom are women or gay/lesbian, who can’t see what’s going on here. I never cared much for Rowling until recently and now I’m endlessly grateful to her for sticking her head above the parapet for us all. Equally I feel utterly devastated by Atwood’s comments yesterday, it must really be true what they say about never meeting your heroes

 

[Scotch Mist]

I’ve read none of this thread,
I know nothing that’s going on,
I don’t care about the public opinion, the popular opinion, the PC opinion, what people say behind closed doors, where they feel safe to be as problematic and judgemental as they wanna be

my only comment, that adds absolutely nothing to this conversation is.....

WHY IS SHE STILL TALKING!!!!
Why is she still talking.
Can’t someone put her phone on charge but forget to plug that shit into the wall?
Why am I constantly seeing this bint making people angry on twitter!!!
Is she doing it for attention or is there a reason she’s banging on YET again and offending the masses, do I care enough to find out
Does it make me a shit person if I don’t actully care because she’s exhausting.

that is all. Told you it adds nothing.

Why shouldn't JK give her opinions? She has just as much right as anyone else. I think she's very brave because too many people are being silenced by the Twitter mob and their sick cancel culture. Many don't speak out for fear of losing their jobs.

And in my opinion the masses aren't being offended. I believe that the silent majority of women support her. The ones creating all the fuss are a group of activists hell bent on silencing women because they have a nasty mysoginisic agenda.

 

[FrannyGallops]

Omg I just love her. Every time I feel so down about all this she posts and I feel all inspired and tearful

Same. She’s bloody brilliant for not backing down. If anyone wants to email her their support her email address is [email protected] It might go some way to drowning out the abuse she’s getting on Twitter.

But denying trans women a space shouldn’t be that answer either - neither should calling trans people mentally ill as has been suggested in here and why I didn’t come in earlier.

Nobody is denying trans women a space. But why (as is always the case) do women have to shove over and allow them into their space? Because that’s what happening. Why can’t they have their own space?

 

[Bitofthebubbly]

Vancouver Rape Relief’s letter to JKR.

 

[Doc]

Thank god for JKR giving us a loud voice. I’m so angry at those who are trying to ‘cancel’ her over this, particularly women who should have empathy. Look at this job advert from Sheffield City Council, read it, digest it. Anybody who can’t see an issue (clue SELF IDENTIFYING) has no right to speak on the subject because they’re clearly not capable of thinking about the implications.

 

[Lanavalentine]

No. You don’t want intersex people to be highlighted because it blows out your argument that gender identity isn’t real. Intersex people matter!!

Yes, we know they do.

Please talk to some actual intersex people. They’ll probably be a lot less polite than I am - they’re sick of being used as a “gotcha” in an attempt to justify trans activists poorly constructed arguments.

Women who no longer menstruate or have had hysterectomies are also sick of being used this way. At least the ones I know are.

Making Toilets/refuges etc into a safe space for 'CIS' & transgender people I feel is quite important.
And is something that i'm sure a solution can be found.

For years, feminists have attempted to sit down and discuss it like adults with the trans activist crowd. They don’t want to know, they don’t want to agree a compromise, they just want to scream “transphobia” at any woman who dares mention that biological sex is real.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

She is definitely out of fucks to give

 

[creme.egg92]

Exactly, it's all knee jerk BS. "Such and such said she's a transphobe so she must be". What happened to critical thinking?

It's deliberate to make it easier to attack. If you didn't know anything about this and went to social media, what would you see? All the loud TRAs screeching about JK being transphobic, JK hates trans people, I even saw a Tweet the other day saying 'JK is directly advocating for the torture and death of trans people.' And this mimics what abusive men do to women all the time; you express a problem with something they've said to you or how they've treated you, they minimise it as best they can to something that doesn't reflect the issue, because it's easier to attack. For example, say you have an abusive partner who openly flirts with other women in front of your face (using my own anecdote here). Instead of dealing with the issue - they're treating you badly and you don't like it - they say something like 'wow, you're so jealous! You won't even let me have female friends!' because that idea is something that's much easier for them to criticise and put the blame back on you. And there is so much of this going on in this whole thing, it's almost laughable that this 'discussion' so obviously mimics the gaslighting of women in general that it's no surprise really much of the dialogue can be characterised in the same way. It's male activism for male rights and burn at the stake anyone who disagrees (women).

 

[jewelkitty]

It wasn’t that long ago that everything you and many are saying on here was being said about gay and lesbian people. Utterly uneducated and hate filled vitriol.

Yup and now gay and lesbian people are being thrown to the curb in favour of trans people. They are being erased in favour of trans people.
Personally I will always stand with gay people and lesbians over trans (who I've seen spout way more uneducated, hateful vitriol than anyone here).

 

[Hallowmaiden]

Evanna Lynch (Luna Lovegood) has deleted twitter after receiving backlash because although she disagreed with JKR’s comments she said that she, as someone who knows JKR personally knows that she is a good person with good intentions and that basically she shouldn’t be abused for her comments. They came for her.

These extreme activists want nothing but complete submission. Even when you agree with them, if you say one thing they perceive to be wrong they’ll chew you up. I feel for her I read what she said and it seems she meant well, I bet she wishes she said nothing.

Dan Fogler tweeted a very similar message, yet he's not receiving half as much backlash as Evanna. In fact, most people are praising his words.

It's almost as if men aren't as easy targeted and vulnerable for online abuse as women. Who would have thought.

 

[Vanillaco]

Sorry I meant the people getting called middle aged women, are middle aged women.
And yes I agree that age is irrelevant but if a factual analysis is irrelevant why is “middle aged woman” irrelevant but “trans woman” isn’t. There just seems to be a bit of...not hypocrisy but maybe a bit of a double standard in terminology?

Because the term middle aged woman is being made into a term of abuse ( and even more sadly by other women) It is meant to be a form of ridicule and a justification for dismissing that person's right to an opinion because they are 'middle aged'. The TRa' s have a set view of women and attractiveness ( because they were brought up as men). They, like some misogynistic men funnily enough, see women as visible when they are young, sexual and compliant brings but not when they are middle aged.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

More like trying to distance themselves from her since their fan base is largely woke millennials. They don’t want any negativity from JK’s tweets affecting their precious careers. The only sensible one was Rupert Grint, he’s kept out of everything really.

Exactly. Well if they were that worried about their careers, I'd suggest acting lessons seeing as they've proven to have a limited scope outside of children's films. Sorry, bitchy I know but I'm so furious

I'm a bit late to the thread, but if have to say I've found it very informative and interesting and apart from some name calling, at least there is debate.

I was appalled at the abuse JK got on Twitter. There's no debate, no dialogue, just she's a homophobic TERF!!!

That's the thing that's really bothering me - there's no debate - it's just shut up and f*** off.

I think we all agree that everybody should live how they wish, dress how they wish and be addressed how they wish. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable with the erosion of female only spaces and would like some discussion about this issue.

I'm particularly worried about kids and the fact that nobody nowadays seems to be allowed to be 'odd'. As a child, I wasn't particular feminine, was a bit of tomboy and because of family dynamics always felt like an outsider. Now, 40 years on, I love pink and glitter but also love my football team and am rarely out of jeans/trousers. In terms of gender stereotypes, I'm still odd. Or unique!!!

I found the interview with Rachel Doelzal really interesting and thought provoking. I do wonder if her idea that race is a social concept will pick up followers. Because I can see the parallels between this and gender concepts.

As i said, I've found this a really interesting thread and even if I don't agree with people, they have the right to state their point of view. Just wish they would also let JK express her point of view.

Live and let live is a one way street, clearly

 

[Zenchick101]

I'm a bit late to the thread, but if have to say I've found it very informative and interesting and apart from some name calling, at least there is debate.

I was appalled at the abuse JK got on Twitter. There's no debate, no dialogue, just she's a homophobic TERF!!!

That's the thing that's really bothering me - there's no debate - it's just shut up and f*** off.

I think we all agree that everybody should live how they wish, dress how they wish and be addressed how they wish. That doesn't mean I'm comfortable with the erosion of female only spaces and would like some discussion about this issue.

I'm particularly worried about kids and the fact that nobody nowadays seems to be allowed to be 'odd'. As a child, I wasn't particular feminine, was a bit of tomboy and because of family dynamics always felt like an outsider. Now, 40 years on, I love pink and glitter but also love my football team and am rarely out of jeans/trousers. In terms of gender stereotypes, I'm still odd. Or unique!!!

I found the interview with Rachel Doelzal really interesting and thought provoking. I do wonder if her idea that race is a social concept will pick up followers. Because I can see the parallels between this and gender concepts.

As i said, I've found this a really interesting thread and even if I don't agree with people, they have the right to state their point of view. Just wish they would also let JK express her point of view.

discussion = transphobic which is so weird. I'm 100% pro choice for example but I'm open to discussing opposing points of view with reasonable, non name calling people.

 

[Vanillaco]

Has anyone read the statement Mermaids have released addressing JK and her essay? Instagram is full of fawning comments etc about how brilliant it is but it absolutely isn’t! It completely brushes over all the valid points she made and focuses on the semantics of things like how they officially change gender instead.

Example:

“To address the core of your point, trans rights do not come at the expense of women’s rights. We see no evidence that trans girls are a threat to other girls in any way. Indeed, it is transgender children who often suffer horrific bullying at school and at home. And, as you will have seen, it is transgender adults who are made to feel afraid in modern British society, by those who would seek to characterise them as a threat without any evidence or justification and in the face of considerable evidence to the contrary.”

So, just basically sliding right past anything relating to the right to women and girls to have a penis free environment to change in or use the toilet in. The fact women’s sports are being taken away by men. And then straight to the usual “me me me” or “us us us” pattern.

Then they talk about JK having no evidence that women want safe same sex spaces. Of course she has no evidence, we aren’t bloody allowed to talk about the issue without being threatened with violence, abuse, or losing our jobs!

Then they bleat about there being no evidence that women are at risk in refuges when trans people are present. Completely ignoring the fact that plenty of women would not feel safe sharing the space with a biological man but again WE ARENT ALLOWED TO SAY SO. Women just won’t access the spaces instead putting them at further risk. But for mermaids, this doesn’t count.

I can’t even get into the rest of it because I think I’ve reached my limit now with how absolutely insane and widespread this whole brainwashing is. I just feel so so sad about it all. Reading this bollocks of a statement and seeing people gush over it like it makes any sense whatsoever.

A tiny part of me hopes this is just an internet thing and in real life the majority of people see sense but then to see normal people who I thought had brains commenting on this shit has blown my mind.

Sorry for the word vomit but I’m just :O at it all. The statement is proper patronising to JK too making jokes that opening bathrooms wide would be “smelly”.

Yes. The argument is not only about trans people. Many trans people do just want to pee and go home, do a medical procedure for their job and go home, get changed in a facility and go home. But why do women not have the right to do the same without having to have the fear that their spaces are being encroached? Just because a doctor doing a smear test has no intention of feeling up a woman doesnt mean that woman does not have the right to feel uncomfortable. Just because a trans woman wants his cock and balls waxed doesnt mean a woman cannot feel uncomfortable doing it. Just because a trans girl has no intention of perving over her teenage classmates doesnt mean girls cant feel uncomfortable being naked in front of them. But the narrative is all about the feelings of trans above those of women. And a tiny minority of very loud trans activists issue rape threats, shut down debate, encourage girls in particular to get puberty blockers that will render them infertile although thankfully this has been stopped, discuss how to get lesbians to sleep with them, tell gay men that they are just in the wrong body. These people should be shut down by the wider trans community. They are aggressive and violent and should not be pandered to by the woke.

 

[jewelkitty]

Yep, I hate it. Sorry but they know nothing of the problems women struggle with.

To me it's just as absurd as a white person identifying as a black person and claiming to know the struggles that black people experience.

 

[Milliemoo99]

As a woman in find it demeaning to call me a person who mensturates. I fucking hate my periods and fail to see why I apparently now have to refer to myself as a bodily function so as not to offend people.

Yes not all women have periods including trans women, and some trans men who all have not started treatment might have periods but this is a small number of people and I don't understand why trans people are so offended by this. A women who has been through the menopause or has had a hysterectomy is no less a woman because her periods have stopped.

Periods do not make you a woman and being a woman does not mean you have to have periods.

The original tweet put out does deserve all the backlash that has been given. I appreciate that there is wider context with JK Rowling and things in the past and her recent post regarding the abuse she suffered. She has never in everything I have read said she hates trans people. It is completely right that if someone is trans they have the right to change their gender and live how they want but in also think that this needs to be done with caution and the right support and for the right reasons and that there needs to be proper debate about protecting the rights of both trans women and cis women. This is especially true for those who have suffered trauma.

Most of the comments on twitter and things that the HP cast have said are basically shutting down debate which needs to happen to protect both sides.

I have been a woman my entire life...... I always believed that it was the person inside who mattered, whether you were kind or nasty , lazy or a hard worker etc. I grew up at a time when appearances didn't matter, and when we didn't have as much money to spend on clothes, make up etc

So I get so confused about trans issues, cos What difference does the packaging on the outside make? Why does someone's external or internal appearance matter or be relevant? If you want to dress as a man or as a woman, so what? So if someone wants to identify as a man or woman, thats fine by me, but why does it need to interfere with my identity and how I see myself as a woman?

What I do find frustrating is that...my old definition of what it is to be a woman....is no longer valid. I am no longer a woman because i was born female, I am now a CIS woman. Why has my defintion of what a woman is been changed? Who asked me if it was ok to change the definition?

Of course part of being a woman is about the biological facts of sex, periods, pregnancy, menopause, mood swings etc,.....same as being a man is about having a penis, having a broader chest, having a lower voice, having higher testosterone levels.......etc

Being a woman, for me is nothing about wearing particular clothes, or having to wear make up or high heels, or liking pink and fluffy cute kittens....which is what is confusing to me about some trans women, like caitlyn Jenner, who are all about the external appearance.

 

[Glaschelle]

No matter what - I think JK Rowling has the right to say what she said - I'll nail my copies to the mast and say that I agree with JK.

I also think that people have the right to disagree with her.

And that is a bigger issue. We are no longer allowed to disagree with each other.

I honestly have never been so frightened about the world!!!