J. K. Rowling #2 JK and the Chamber of Mysogyny

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Scotch Mist

I also agree that gender stereotypes seem to be the problem. Do we really live in a world where people are hung up about what is considered male or female?
I was able to play with toys for both sexes when I was a child and I dont remember being told that I couldn't do something because of my sex. Were gender constucts such a big deal in the bad old days?
It makes me laugh when celebs come out with shit like 'we're raising our children to be gender fluid' as if being a free thinker is something they just invented
 
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thatstupidcat

I just wanted to chime in and make it clear that from my standpoint, it is ridiculous that as various social media platforms shut down any and all gender critical discussions (but keep all the rape and abuse fiction up, looking at you Reddit), it is a crying shame we are having to have this serious discussion on a gossip page for a children’s author.

I wish this was a discussion about some author going off the rails and getting a gastric band while doing enough coke to floor an entire 70’s rock band.

Also, for any newcomer here’s a list, helpfully provided by Fionne Orlander, as to what women rights we are going to lose if anyone can identify as female under the law:

 
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Falkor

To drag things vaguely back on topic - anyone else following the 'I JK Rowling' billboard at Edinburgh Waverley station saga? It was put up a couple of days before her birthday, paid for by Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull (probably better known as Posie Parker). Network Rail took it down a couple of days later, saying:

"The poster in question is against our code of acceptance for advertising in our stations owing to its political nature. We do not allow advertising that is likely to support or promote one viewpoint over another."

Well, (a) all advertising promotes one viewpoint over another, that's kind of the point, and (b) Network Rail currently pays Stonewall £2,500 a year to be listed as one of their diversity champions, which is a pretty political statement on its own.

It's going to be interesting to see how this one plays out, taking it down has, ironically, created far more press coverage than it would have had they let it run its allotted booking time (which was exactly what Posie was hoping for, I suspect).
 
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Milliemoo99

If all trans people recognise that biological females have vaginas, where on earth did this idea of 'cis' females come from?

I was born female, and I am still female, or a woman, I have absolutely no idea why anyone is attempting to change my personal identity and label me cis?

I dont have any issue with anyone wearing whatever they want to, or identifying as whatever gender they choose, I am sure it has been going on for generations.
I do have an issue if it tries to change my identity, or if transwomen, born male, full of testosterone enhanced muscles etc, try to say they have an equal right to compete in all womens events!
And I have issues if we arent allowed to discuss it openly without causing offence!
 
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Thank(space)you

I've not been following this thread but just wanted to pop on and say this thread title is inspired
 
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SqualorVictoria

I agree with all of that and I utterly reject the term "cis". If we respect their right to pronouns they should do the same and not apply terms to us that we don't want.
 
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Lanavalentine

cupboardsarebare said:
Thank you! The level of transphobia on this thread is shocking.
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Which posts do you find transphobic? How are you defining transphobia?

This is the root of the problem for me. So many people seem to feel that it’s perfectly ok for women’s language and rights (see above for a handy list of the rights women would lose under a reformed GRA, from transwoman Fionne Orlander) to be removed and revoked, in order to make room for transpeople and their identity and feelings around that.

We have gotten to the point where biology, women’s rights and ability to clearly label and define ourselves is transphobic. How is this ok?

Now, if we’re talking about actual transphobia, which I haven’t seen any examples of on this thread - hating people because they are trans, attacking them, mocking them as “freaks”, refusing to employ them because they are trans... that is abhorrent, and like JK Rowling said in her essay, I’d march alongside the people who campaign against this.

Funnily enough though, I don’t see a huge amount of campaigning for trans rights beyond those that trample women’s rights in the process. Never seen a campaign about housing for example, or discrimination in employment and education (beyond sex-segregated bathroom use). I wonder why that is?
 
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SqualorVictoria

I note how no examples of transphobia on this thread have been forthcoming. How surprising

Rosie Duffield and the war on women

It’s summer but the war on women continues. The latest person to fall victim to the transgender thought police is Labour MP Rosie Duffield after she liked a tweet by Piers Morgan where he harrumphed CNN’s reference to ‘individuals with a cervix’. Duffield later angered her critics more by...
www.spectator.co.uk

Common sense is taking a foothold again
 
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Bitofthebubbly

People come on this thread regularly to call us all transphobic but very rarely do they come back to actually discuss it.

Guess it just gives them good feels and woke points to come in and ‘put us in our place’ (and add exactly nothing to the discussion) and then flounce off again whilst congratulating themselves on how woke and inclusive they are.
 
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Scotch Mist

Thank goodness for The Spectator reporting this.
If this nonsense isn't stamped out in the Labour party then a huge number of women will never vote for them again.
 
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Lanavalentine

Scotch Mist said:
Thank goodness for The Spectator reporting this.
If this nonsense isn't stamped out in the Labour party then a huge number of women will never vote for them again.
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Yes and I notice the Green Party have a gender critical woman in the deputy race (Andrea Carey Fuller) and a male leadership candidate who endorses allowing women to have a platform to discuss their concerns (Sharhar Ali) and welcomes the “politically homeless” women in particular.

I predict an influx of former Labour women if either of these two win.
 
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SilentSue

My husband is a member of the Communist Party, and they've seen a huge influx of people from Labour - men and women alike.
 
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Sunraged

So....

The term Transphobic is a misnomer, and nothing more than a weaponised term to shame anyone who disagrees with trans ideology. It's a political term, and not the only term that's weaponised to shame people into not expressing their views.

Gender Dysphoria is indeed something that can lead to suicide in many cases, but that's not the whole story. You have to look at underlying psychopathology to get a clearer picture of what Gender Dysphoria is, and where it comes from. The irony in all of this is that the attempt to browbeat the general public into agreeing that gender can cover everything from pixies to Morris Dancing gerbils has actually caused a greater sense of difference, and therefore an increased level of risk in people who are Dysphoric.

There are correlations between personality-based difficulties and autism in GD, not always, but it's there. There's evidence that children who are Dysphhoric grow out of it and eventually live quite happily as their sex at birth. There's evidence that some people who fully transition regret it, and seek out a reversal of the transition, and there is evidence that people who regret transitioning are also at high risk of self-harm.

There are some real shysters out there, peddling their self led research PROVING that their trans ideology is spot on and that TERFS, Cis gendered infidels, and so on, deserve to die (yeah, anyone seen the Twitter comments aimed at JK Rowling by Trans Activists? Fucking disgusting, and those people would be taken to court, and prosecuted if it were up to me). Thousands of confused, vulnerable people trawl the internet every minute of the day, looking for an identity, something that fits, a place to belong, and lo and behold, there's the equivalent of the Jesus Army/Born Again Christians/Any other Cult organisation online saying "you belong with us-we can make you better".

There is evidence that "reputable clinics" are coercing children and parents to consent to giving the child puberty blockers. and there are now private and anonymised chat rooms where gender curious kids can go and talk to a "mentor" who will essentially convince the child they are trans, and will force them down that road to getting something they might not necessarily want.

Let's be balanced though, and acknowledge that some people transition and feel completely happy. Like a well-done nose job, they believe it's given them the appearance they need to feel they can function.

I would never ever want to see trans people who genuinely want to make a 100% informed decision to transition. It should be their right, and they should be guided towards the services that would help them do that. What I do want to see however is the ceasing of trying to invent an ideology that fits an agenda, and then purport it to be science. I have more than enough knowledge of science and research methods to know that I could provide a prima facie slam dunk that we are all descendants of Cumquats, and that our internal organs should be referred to as "segments", but it doesn't make it so.

The solution is to encourage people to accept their difference, to own their Dysphoria, understand where it comes from, and to develop skills which will allow them to navigate the world safely. Trying to pathologise and normalise something that is borne from a dysfunctional view of self, will do absolutely nothing to help that person feel ok about themselves. They can still refer to themselves as trans, they can still live as the opposite sex, but for fuck's sake, stop those people who believe that anyone opposing their ideology should have their face ripped off by dogs and their children killed, from having any voice at all. Ever.
 
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Doc

Transphobic... TERF... Karen... old... ugly... middle aged... bitter.

All attempts to denigrate and degrade and claim superiority. It’s a kind of bigotry never seen before... unless you count the hundreds of years of female oppression that is.
 
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C

creme.egg92

Doc said:
Has anyone else started to feel really pissed off by drag lately? I mean, I used to love it and admire the skills. Now I’m finding it kind of gross since this whole TRA push.
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Yes. I have hated it for a long time. Drag to sexism is what black face is to racism. Being female is not a costume.
(Sorry just catching up)
 
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creme.egg92

northernspaces said:
I assume you are completely fine with pantomimes though? Or Shakespeare plays?
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Why would I possibly be ‘fine’ with pantomimes when I’ve just said I hate drag? Clearly, I am not ‘fine’ with the pantomime dame trope. I haven’t been to a pantomime since I was about 5 years old.

Re Shakespeare, unsure whether you’re referring to the fact that women were played by men in his plays, or the problematic way that women are portrayed in much of his work. In both cases I am not ‘completely fine’ with either of those things however this is unfortunately typical of the social attitudes towards women during his time so I’m not sure what it is you want me to do about that? I think it is important these works are studied so that we are aware of women’s history and can progress. I can’t change history. We can stop doing drag now however.
 
Reactions: 22
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