Israeli-Palestinian Conflict #7

[Dogmuck]

Bit like being a POC in the UK, then.

A Kurd in Iran.

Africans in India.

Muslims in China.

The LGBT community and women in practically all Muslim-majority countries.

This is what people mean when they say Israel is held to higher standards than other countries. It's not what aboutism - it's anti-semitism.

Can you please reference the law in the UK where it specifically states that if you are a POC different laws apply to them? As a lawyer I’m very interested in this legislation as I’ve been doing law wrong for decades!

This is exactly whataboutery at its absolute peak. You ask if Muslims are oppressed in Israel and the answer confirms this is the case with relevant legislation and then you start pointing at other countries in relation to other breaches of human rights. It’s not an either or conversation anyone in their right mind or with an ounce of humanity doesn’t want people oppressed in any country, but we are here talking about the current situation in Palestine and Israel. If you feel so strongly about those crimes against humanity in other countries then I suggest you make a thread exclusively for them, maybe arrange a March in London, boycott them, I’m pretty sure you’ll find a whole lot of the people on this thread coming over there and agreeing with your outrage.

 

[Emotional Support Ferret]

Are posters here uploading stuff from Twitter? Seriously looks like you should be uploading it to the conspiracy thread

Is this that thing people do when they think that attempting to ridicule someone will cause the other person to abandon their morals rather than be laughed at by someone who imagines their personal approval to be more important than genocide?

 

[Shimmering]

The real wake-up call to me was how easy it was to do. The amount of stone cold psychopaths in positions of power. And how powerless we are against them. The whole thing is horrifying. And, like, young kids whose brains haven't even developed properly will be seeing all this, all around the world, these truly hellish images - you have to wonder how that will affect them. idk it just feels like the wolrd has spun on its axis or something. Like it feels like we're standing on a faultline of history, if you'll excuse the poetics.

It's definitely a defining moment in modern history. A line has been crossed and it can't be undone.

I'm not just worried and heartbroken for Israel and Gaza, I'm terrified about what this will unleash. I'm really concerned about the attempts to clamp down or silence people who are opposing this. Whether it's posters on social media / discussion forums or our government, there is a concerted effort to shut down dissent and I see it getting worse in the future. I think the backlash will be huge when it happens. I dread to think what horrific propaganda we will be exposed to.

Sometimes I even feel scared to post on social media in case I myself become a target which is pathetic and cowardly, I know.

I am seeing a rise in antisemitism on social media. Not on tattle. But on twitter and Instagram which is where I am active.

A lot of people who to me seem younger and maybe more idealistic / naive are rejecting the label of antisemitism but in doing so are in danger of being sucked into antisemitism. Or else they don't care and are embracing it. It is a danger but at the same time, when there are people online who are literally saying that every view that isn't "yay genocide by Israel rocks!" is Antisemitism you can see that we are in serious trouble. Words lose all meaning and people give up since they will be called antisemitic no matter what.

I think pro Israel people arent used to being called out on their views with such passion and strength. When their well worn arguments are not convincing they're not willing to engage in good faith which is creating this incredibly toxic atmosphere.

Meanwhile a genocide continues while we get bogged down debating our right to a viewpoint.

God help Gaza.

 

[Veronicaaa]

It's antifascism, not antisemitism. A lot of people find it quite alarming that a country can bomb and bulldoze their way through another country, killing civilians in their thousands, while cutting them off from water, food, power, fuel, with the apparent goal of annihilating them, and I'm not sure why that's difficult to understand.

 

[BWGossip]

Yes, it's important to differentiate jewish people from Israeli and from zionists.
Unfortunately, zionists have spent decades trying to assimilate zionism and judaism, making any critcism of zionism (and/or Israel's politic) as antisemitic. Which is obviously BS and dangerous. Anti-zionism is as old as zionism in the jewish population. It's possible to be jewish, and not Israeli or zionist (like me). Some people are zionist but not jew nor Israeli!

Lots of Jewish Students Associations, especially in the US, have been very vocal against the war in Gaza (protests, sits in, walk out). Unfortunately, there is pressure from universities administrations and zionists to silence them (lots of doxxing). Even in Israel, anti-zionist/people advocating for peace with Palestine exist. Viviane Silver, who was killed on 7/10, was a big voice for the peace in the Middle East. B'Tselem is an Israeli NGO advocating for Palestinians rights (despite the pressure from the government). Some of the most vocal advocates for Palestine in western academia are jewish.

Another example: anti-war protest in Tel Aviv today!

 

[Dogmuck]

I wish people would stop staying that Hamas aren’t going to release the hostages - they would, they want to, do people understand what hostages are? “a person seized or held as security for the fulfilment of a condition” They are a bargaining chip. The idea is “we’ve got something you want so let’s deal” - It’s Israel who don’t want to deal, they have no intention of giving an inch. They are saying fk you Hamas and fk you hostage’s, fk you palestine, fk you UN, fk you WHO, fk you Red Cross, fk you Red Crescent, fk you the rest of the world. They’ve been saying fk you to all of these people and institutions for 75 years and they are more emboldened than ever. They never had any intention of getting the hostages back they don’t care about these captives, they’re using them to forward their agenda to initially occupy gaza, continue their brutal apartheid policies, with the end game of co-opting ALL Palestinian land

 

[pink321]

Yet many of them support Hamas though. They are not all quite so innocent, are they!

 

[curious cookie jar]

If you are a lefty type who supports issues such as LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech and are anti racist/xenophobia.

Then you are a bloody hypocrite if you are supporting Pallestine/Hamas over Israel.

More so, if you attend the marches whereby blatant anti-semitism is rife.

Hamas do not support LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech, nor is it allowed in Pallestine.

With the marches, many attending are also proving themselves to be hypocrites of the highest order. Throw around abuse to people of other ethnic minorities/races then it is condemned to the hilt by them. Yet those same people see no issues doing the exact same thing to Jewish people and their faith.

I call that double standards.

I’m getting tired of reminding new posters on here but anyway, I’m of Jewish heritage as are many others here who are calling out the Israeli government ( note Israeli government not Jews as a whole) and what they’re currently doing in Gaza and increasingly now in the West Bank

 

[curious cookie jar]

tbf saying that there is a 'right kind of Jew' means accepting that Jewish views aren't monolithic (ETA is that the right word?) and therefore it's an ideological issue rather than an antisemitic one, so I guess that's progress.

As someone with Jewish heritage I find calling someone the right or wrong kind of Jew is very offensive

 

[Dogmuck]

I completely agree with any religious state being problematic, but my point is that people seem dead set against the Jewish people having a Jewish state, but not against Muslim people having (several) muslim states (where, btw, there are multiple human rights atrocities committed daily). Omid Djalili is particularly eloquent on this IMO.

You keep coming on here saying people seem dead set against a Jewish state. I’ve not seen anyone on here call for that. In fact I would say that the MAJORITY of worldly opinion is to accept a Jewish state BUT that state needs to accept a Palestinian state, which Isreal is making VERY clear it won’t. You keep missing this point, bringing whataboutery into the conversation. This isn’t about the eradication of a Jewish state, I laugh hard at the thought that given the paid for depth of support for Israel, that would even be a credible threat. What this is about is illegal occupation, apartheid and genocide of another nation by the state of Israel.
I see whilst I’ve been writing this you’ve already tried to close any discussion of this down with the your usual lines and the absolute classic of “attacking Zionism is an old antisemitic trope”. Despite your constant protestations that you don’t care about religion you keep bringing all your arguments back to Jews V Muslims. It’s very telling on you.

ETA - top tip for us slow typing folk who keep getting caught out by tattles reset which clears your comments.
What you need to do is tap < Prev (situated at top and bottom of every page prev) then come back to the current page and go down to your comment box and you’ll see all your post is still there. Well that’s working for me.

 

[IBH8-8]

If you are a lefty type who supports issues such as LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech and are anti racist/xenophobia.

Then you are a bloody hypocrite if you are supporting Pallestine/Hamas over Israel.

More so, if you attend the marches whereby blatant anti-semitism is rife.

Hamas do not support LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech, nor is it allowed in Pallestine.

With the marches, many attending are also proving themselves to be hypocrites of the highest order. Throw around abuse to people of other ethnic minorities/races then it is condemned to the hilt by them. Yet those same people see no issues doing the exact same thing to Jewish people and their faith.

I call that double standards.

The fact you conflate Palestinians with Hamas says it all

 

[Lammington]

If you are a lefty type who supports issues such as LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech and are anti racist/xenophobia.

Then you are a bloody hypocrite if you are supporting Pallestine/Hamas over Israel.

More so, if you attend the marches whereby blatant anti-semitism is rife.

Hamas do not support LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech, nor is it allowed in Pallestine.

With the marches, many attending are also proving themselves to be hypocrites of the highest order. Throw around abuse to people of other ethnic minorities/races then it is condemned to the hilt by them. Yet those same people see no issues doing the exact same thing to Jewish people and their faith.

I call that double standards.

Here's the thing. I don't tie someone's right to live with their political alignment with me.

I disagree with anyone denying the rights of another human, but not for one second will I use that as an excuse to justify them being murdered.

 

[Dogmuck]

If you are a lefty type who supports issues such as LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech and are anti racist/xenophobia.

Then you are a bloody hypocrite if you are supporting Pallestine/Hamas over Israel.

More so, if you attend the marches whereby blatant anti-semitism is rife.

Hamas do not support LGBT, Trans, Women's rights and freedom of speech, nor is it allowed in Pallestine.

With the marches, many attending are also proving themselves to be hypocrites of the highest order. Throw around abuse to people of other ethnic minorities/races then it is condemned to the hilt by them. Yet those same people see no issues doing the exact same thing to Jewish people and their faith.

I call that double standards.

Maybe you should change your name to Judgy Mcjudgefascist


lefty type here who supports the rights of others, yep I do support the Palestinians rights too. Guilty as charged with compassion, empathy & open mindedness - send me to The Hague asap

Attended Marches - your honour I didn’t see any anti-semitism but hell I can see you’re impartial so fexk it, just go ahead and string me up.

I’d address other points but you only made 2 and just repeated them

 

[IBH8-8]

People don’t have a problem with Jewish people having their own state. People have a problem with how the extreme Zionists in government use this premise in a twisted way to expand and annihilate a whole population.

 

[IBH8-8]

I’m questioning all the figures at this stage. I think anything that is put out by the IDF or Hamas should be scrutinised independently.

The figures concerning civilians killed in Gaza are independently verified and recognised by the UN. If anything they will be understated due to the number of bodies underneath buildings etc.

 

[Shimmering]

44000 dead and for what?

Babies and children, sick people, the elderly killed and maimed. Families destroyed. Humans wiped out.

For what? Self defence, revenge, hate?

Fuck everyone who justifies this.

 

[IBH8-8]

Nah we recognise a lot of people hate Jews. I've never read a propaganda guidebook, I have a brain.

Anyway this thread has turned into a conspiracy theory crackpot thread. I'm out you can all masturbate over the destruction of Israel which is never going to happen. 2 state solution will happen one day, Israel will continue to exist. The end.

Point me to one post where someone has called for the end of Israel. You can’t.

 

[pink321]

Ffs this ...

The level of dumb is just beyond anything I've seen from a supposed first world army (and especially one that's backed by a superpower!). They come out with such cringey b*llocks and fully expect people will believe their BS, the total clowns. They make my skin crawl with their gaslighting, lies and cruelty.



At this point I feel like they're trolling us, or just fishing to see how thick the public are and how much they can get away with. Either that or they genuinely are a bunch of idiots.
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and this is just absolutely tragic,


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If anyone still thinks this whole thing started in October 2023 then they need to take a long hard look at themselves (and analyse their critical thinking ability):

 

[IBH8-8]

Are posters here uploading stuff from Twitter? Seriously looks like you should be uploading it to the conspiracy thread

You would rather it was ‘official’ sources like the IDF I assume

 

[Charlotte1993]

I was at university when the marches against the Iraq war took place. I went along with one of my flatmates and I'm proud I did that even though we didn't manage to stop the invasion of Iraq. Another flatmate had friends round when we were leaving for the march and I suggested they come too. I will never forget that one of them said to me "I trust the government's decision as they have all the facts and they know better than we do".

Honestly as messed up as it is I thank my lucky stars I grew up through the troubles in NI and I know exactly how much faith to put in the official government position (clue - it ranges from vanishingly little to none)

Sorry for the little me rail there.

If we fail to stand for the oppressed if our time comes how can we hope for people to stand for us.