Israeli - Palestinian Conflict #16

[Dogmuck]

I mentioned the Holocaust as I was quoting the picture somebody posted. And said that what the Israelis have been doing in Palestine will have now created generational trauma to the people of Gaza. But you were trying to imply that I was favouring one side.

I was suggesting, like you stated that “now we are a few generations in it’s happening to the Palestinians”, that if we can accept these “relentless attacks” by Israelis then you’re correct and that GT MUST accept the same principle for the anger of Hamas. We are agreeing really. You gave me a theory and I ran with it. I’m thankful you came on and brought it up. It makes much more sense of why 7/10 occurred and why there’s so much anger and aggression is happening. Sorry I probably should have said thank you. It took me a while to understand but I’m there. Thank you

 

[Veronicaaa]

They've done one about Jews in England but never seen any about the people that went to Israel straight after the war.

Tantura and Blue Box are 2 documentaries which look at this.

 

[rainbowlemon]

Im struggling to see a connection with why the Israelis would dislike Arabs when the Holocaust occurred in Europe at the hands of the European and despite the horrors that were inflicted on them, the US, their closest alley, refused Jewish immigrants. Surely there is nobody so far removed from their trauma than the Palestinians?

Personal opinion:

Firstly they fundamentally believe they have a right to that land. Why have just a part when you can have it all? They have forgotten the kindness they were shown.

The British had promised support for Arab independence, but facilitated Jewish immigration and land purchases instead.

With the White Paper ruling, Jewish immigration was only supposed to 75,000 over five years with restrictions on land purchases. The number of immigrants pouring after the second world war was heavily exceeded and this would create tension with the Arabs, giving rise to the “ Us versus you “ mentality.
---
(Not sure if ruling is the right word,but it’s a policy)

The Passfield White Paper

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[Ennui]

Israelis are celebrating this national hero today. The UK government and opposition think we are extremists to oppose this.

 

[Dogmuck]

 

[Dogmuck]

I hope this is true and please keep those brave men safe

 

[slayer123]

CC: @Jen667

 

[Lammington]

Im struggling to see a connection with why the Israelis would dislike Arabs when the Holocaust occurred in Europe at the hands of the European and despite the horrors that were inflicted on them, the US, their closest alley, refused Jewish immigrants. Surely there is nobody so far removed from their trauma than the Palestinians?

Personal opinion:

Firstly they fundamentally believe they have a right to that land. Why have just a part when you can have it all? They have forgotten the kindness they were shown.

The British had promised support for Arab independence, but facilitated Jewish immigration and land purchases instead.

With the White Paper ruling, Jewish immigration was only supposed to 75,000 over five years with restrictions on land purchases. The number of immigrants pouring after the second world war was heavily exceeded and this would create tension with the Arabs, giving rise to the “ Us versus you “ mentality.
---
(Not sure if ruling is the right word,but it’s a policy)

The Passfield White Paper

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Something to keep in mind when contextualising these studies and why Israel is attacking Palestine - just as the Israeli and Palestinian conflict did not start on October 7th, the Jewish diaspora’s discussion of trauma and loss did not start with the holocaust.

Biblical texts largely start after the destruction of the first temple, and the second temple period is where we see some of the basic elements of Judaism (and all other Abrahamic faiths, as a result) and how its adherents view themselves and the world is set in the shadow of the destruction of the first temple. Worship of Yahweh started when Yahweh was a god of war and violent storms - though that changed, it shows through and Abrahamic faiths tend to be militaristic and view themselves as needing to fight for their faith against a world out to get them.

Add to that base ideology the religious text that says god promised your people these lands, and gave your people consent to massacre the tribes living there to have that land, and then millennia of being attacked and targeted for your faith.

Israelis believe god promised their people the lands of various tribes. While in a secular world this means justifying right of return by means of history or links to the prior population of Judea, it is a religious tenet that this land is theirs.

So a group that has faced genocide and hatred, has (as do Christians and Muslims) a base view of being separate to and suspicious of outsiders, and have a base belief that their god will forgive any action taken to gain the land he promised them.

Dehumanisation of Arabs is easy when that’s the context - they can be painted as the descendants of those that took the lands from the Israelites (despite history being a LOT more complex than that) and they can then be seen as every kind of evil that you grew up being told were out to get you.

As I have said before, this conflict is not a religious war, but it certainly relies on and calls upon religious lore to justify itself.

 

[Charlotte1993]

Omg they’re psychopaths unbelievable

Biden administration begins lengthy process to approve new $1 billion arms deal for Israel

The Biden administration on Tuesday began the early stages of a process to move ahead with a new $1 billion arms deal for Israel, according to two congressional sources.

www.yahoo.com

 

[IBH8-8]

Random thought of an early morning but whatever happened to the New York tunnel story?

 

[bitterntwisted]

I'm struggling to see a connection with why the Israelis would dislike Arabs when the Holocaust occurred in Europe at the hands of the European and despite the horrors that were inflicted on them, the US, their closest alley, refused Jewish immigrants. Surely there is nobody so far removed from their trauma than the Palestinians?

This phenomenon can be best described as the "oppressed becoming the oppressors." There is no rhyme nor reason for it, because you would think that those who have been mistreated, know what a miserable position it is to be in, ergo they would never think to inflict it on another people. Yet, this is what happened with the Zionists and the creation of Israel. A group of people licking their wounds (for lack of a better phrase), ripe for the picking, find salvation in Zionism, the solution to all of their problems as a collective. Israel is a place where they can be in charge, no one can ever put them down, interfere in their lives or kill them en masse. In psychological parlance, they would call it transference. They don't have a beef with the Palestinians, but they are a substitute for the Germans and take out their anger and pain on them. They didn't anticipate that the Palestinians would have the temerity of stay on their land and that frustrates them so much that the Zionists have to kill them obviously.

Personally, I don't believe in the concept of generational trauma. If you are talking about an immediate family line, then yes, but as it pertains to a people, an ethnic group, religious faith, etc. then no. No one likes perpetual victims. You have to get to a point where you take hold of the reins in you life. The Holocaust was over 80 years ago, it was a horrible display of the worst of humankind, but enough. It's not like it happened 4 years ago, was not the first wholesale expulsions and/or slaughter of a people and it was most certainly not the last. The ethnic Germans were booted out of Eastern Europe, the Partition of India, Cambodia, Indonesia, Uganda, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Rwanda. Never Again, yeah right.

We are all victims of circumstance. We don't choose to be here, we just are and with our time on earth we have to make it a better place in our own way, calling out the wrongs and rectifying them without stepping on others. It isn't difficult, yet we keep finding ourselves in the same damn spot.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I wish I could just scoop up all the children and keep them safe until all this was over. The mental torture it must be for the parents, grandparents and guardians to not only be going through it themselves but knowing it's happening to the little children in their lives. The non stop worry they must feel.

 

[bitterntwisted]

@IdeletedbutI'mbackagain I know exactly how you feel. You want to take those wee ones out of there from harm, but at the same I feel like they have to stay lest they be prevented from ever going back. God I hate this situation.

 

[carriage120217]

Im struggling to see a connection with why the Israelis would dislike Arabs when the Holocaust occurred in Europe at the hands of the European and despite the horrors that were inflicted on them, the US, their closest alley, refused Jewish immigrants. Surely there is nobody so far removed from their trauma than the Palestinians?

I think even zionists struggle to make the connection which is why they print tit like this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/10/22/netanyahu-blames-a-palestinian-for-the-holocaust-what-does-the-evidence-say/

It's the most frustrating article. Apparently refusing to take in European Jews = supporting the Holocaust.

 

[NotGonnaLieToYou]

I know I've repeated myself many times - but nothing prepares me for when I open up my Instagram and see the horrors unfolding in Gaza. Yesterday evening a video came up on my timeline of a cat injured and struggling. And the video earlier in the day of the girl having pieces of concrete lifted off her which she was crying out for her mother. It's worse than a horror film and yet this is real life.

 

[Moley1]

Im struggling to see a connection with why the Israelis would dislike Arabs when the Holocaust occurred in Europe at the hands of the European and despite the horrors that were inflicted on them, the US, their closest alley, refused Jewish immigrants. Surely there is nobody so far removed from their trauma than the Palestinians?

Personal opinion:

Firstly they fundamentally believe they have a right to that land. Why have just a part when you can have it all? They have forgotten the kindness they were shown.

The British had promised support for Arab independence, but facilitated Jewish immigration and land purchases instead.

With the White Paper ruling, Jewish immigration was only supposed to 75,000 over five years with restrictions on land purchases. The number of immigrants pouring after the second world war was heavily exceeded and this would create tension with the Arabs, giving rise to the “ Us versus you “ mentality.
---
(Not sure if ruling is the right word,but it’s a policy)

The Passfield White Paper

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Are you saying that all Israelis dislike Arabs? Yes there are some who believe that they should live in certain places at the expense of those who were living there before, but many in both sides just want to live in peace. We are seeing the results of an extremist ultra nationalist Israeli government up against an extremist ultra nationalist Palestinian organisation. Both want the other gone. I don’t think that either are representative of Israelis or Palestinians as a whole.

 

[bitterntwisted]

I just watched a clip of Norm Finkelstein on PoliticsJOE. He was talking about knowing the history of the Palestinians and likening it to being the neighbour of a battered woman, who finally kills her abusive husband.

"I know what happened before October 7th, you know? I know what happened to the battered woman for 20 years, because I was the next door neighbour, before she killed her spouse. I know what brought her to that point. I heard the screams. I heard the banging. I saw how physically battered she was, so when I heard that she killed her husband, she stabbed him a hundred times! And all of the tabloids had as the headlines 'Monster Woman Stabs Husband A Hundred Times,' I know what preceded those hundred stabbings."

 

[avabella]

My heart feels so heavy today. I saw a post from a mother and how she had deleted her child’s apps off her phone because it reminded her too much of him, and how she can’t look at photos because it’s too painful.

I think it really hit me that these kids and parents are the same as us. They have favourite apps on phones or little programmes they like to watch. Songs they like to sing and hobbies they have. It really hit home that these families are just like my own and I hadn’t really considered that before.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Just wanted to say that their is nothing wrong with us for being upset by what we are seeing. It's the sign of an emotionally developed human to be able to empathise with others and to put yourself in their position. What is happening is wrong. I man set himself on fire because he knew how wrong it was. People are protesting in their millions because they know how wrong it is. People are speaking up and losing their jobs because they know how wrong it is.

We are not the abnormal ones.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

I know I've repeated myself many times - but nothing prepares me for when I open up my Instagram and see the horrors unfolding in Gaza. Yesterday evening a video came up on my timeline of a cat injured and struggling. And the video earlier in the day of the girl having pieces of concrete lifted off her which she was crying out for her mother. It's worse than a horror film and yet this is real life.

My heart absolutely breaks for all of the animals too, I can’t even think about their suffering
I’m still suffering from seeing an injured donkey around the 10th of October

I hug my little furry boy that bit tighter every time I see anything animal related ( Much to his horror ) I wish I could go in and rescue them all