Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evans #229 The day that Ioan realised she was totally and utterly bonkers

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I know there are a lot of uncertainties regarding the kids futures but I can see Elsie stepping into her fathers footsteps and leaving Alice too at some point.
She doesn't seem to be as heavily involved as Ella does.
And yes the eldest is a victim too but especially over the last year she's also behaved exactly like Alice in a lot of ways.
Lying about being physically assaulted is a serious (criminal) offence. But here's the thing: I don't know if she even realizes the seriousness of dragging someone to court based on false accusations or if she still thinks this is some sort of game or whatever.
Understanding that your actions have consequences and dealing with them is a big part of growing up. If your parents care about you, they are there to help and guide you in these situations. As we've all seen, Alice doesn't. What I fear is that Alices complete disregard of the law will also rub off on Ella. And if she finds herself in another courtroom (-I hope that doesn't happen-) the person on the other side might not be as understanding of her situation as her father was.
 
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Sure, Ella is being groomed - I know that and if IG was dead (AFE acts like he is) then I would see her as nothing but a victim. However, he's not so that's the parent I would favour and want to live with. Abuse can't be normalised and that includes abuse from 14 yo too though they have more mitigating factors. I just heard of a 14 yo (a girl) who threw a chair at a teacher in school and physically hurt her. Now the kid has a dysfunctional background obviously, but they were taking about expelling her, but didn't. (I would have). There's consequences even at 14. That's the way society works.
I think it's important to really read that first sentence and think about how Alice has not protected her oldest daughter in any meaningful way. It was two years ago that there was all the craziness of the hacking of Ioan's instagram and it seems like there were other kids and/or adults that were commenting on it until control was regained. When the video of Ella was released of her fake RO and circulated on twitter, it's part of a discord thingy of others who may or may not be kids but it may also be adults. It had the Ella pissed herself thing on it. Now, maybe it's a joke but wtf is that?

Who are the people that the daughter is interacting with and do you really think that Alice has vetted them? Do you think they are as quality as Lupine or strange non-family people who are pretending to be grandparents? She has pubic social media profiles for reasons that make no gd sense to me, especially in a case this high profile.

Alice already has started to put chatter online about how her daughter will soon be able to drive.

Strangers know this - meaning thousands of strangers know it. Not on tattle, from Alice. My heart breaks for the kids that they are allowed to be online for anything beyond school, unsupervised, with pictures of them as children, for anyone to see.
 
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Ioan definitely is not often playing LOL


I agree fully with you but re: fun parent. I think in this case fun parent means the parent that doesnt put boundaries and doesnt limit my screen time etc etc. Ioan is the way more active parent, he would take them to trips and whatnot, but he may (that's at least my impression) also force them on trips just to get them off their screens



The problem the current generation has is that there is an (by pseudo activists encouraged) push to switch around roles. In the past parents were dictacting activities or deciding if they grant their kids wishes. Nowadays it's seen as abuse to do certain things if the kids don't want to (yknow like meeting your dads partner after 2 years), or to not grant them wishes. That's why Team Alice went batshit over him not bending backwards to go with Ella to Universal on the day she wanted. Ioan is 100 % right to do that, but this only works if both parents do that.



I reckon this is one reason why for Elsie a) the PA didnt work for a long time and b) her behavior isnt even near as terrible. She seems a more playful/outdoor-y child, but it doesn't mean that this will stay this way.



Or take the groceries: I bet the kids can buy whatever they want with Alice, with Ioan probably not (at least that would be my idea if I see their groceries spendings, and Alice has implied something like this before)



What I'm trying to say with this: I can actually imagine that Ella - even if she wouldn't have irrational hate against her father, and even if Bianca wouldn't exist (and the existence of another party does play a role for how comfortable a child feels at first) - would prefer to stay with her mother. Simply because she is a pretty awful parent, and teenagers like to take advantage out of awful parents. On top of that Alice is also guilt tripping to the max, you certainly would fear that she would kill herself, and she has implied this more than once even.



With that I am not excusing her behavior though. No matter if Alice ordered her to behave this way at some point you have to call her bluff, because if you don't you actually will end up hurting someone else you deep down may still love. And tbh I find it shocking that she hasnt, the way Alice treated her in court by abandoning her was utterly disgusting (and showed that since "be a mother" nothing has changed in her treatment of her kids). It shows how far the brainwashing has gone though if that (presumably) doesnt bother her but her father breathing does. As others have said the brainwashing likely started already during their marriage: if her IG feed is anything to go by (and Ioan said the same) she was always disrespectful to him in front of the kids. That stays with you
just to add on this: the "phone free zone" he had in visitations showed that this is the case
 
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I know there are a lot of uncertainties regarding the kids futures but I can see Elsie stepping into her fathers footsteps and leaving Alice too at some point.
She doesn't seem to be as heavily involved as Ella does.
And yes the eldest is a victim too but especially over the last year she's also behaved exactly like Alice in a lot of ways.
Lying about being physically assaulted is a serious (criminal) offence. But here's the thing: I don't know if she even realizes the seriousness of dragging someone to court based on false accusations or if she still thinks this is some sort of game or whatever.
Understanding that your actions have consequences and dealing with them is a big part of growing up. If your parents care about you, they are there to help and guide you in these situations. As we've all seen, Alice doesn't. What I fear is that Alices complete disregard of the law will also rub off on Ella. And if she finds herself in another courtroom (-I hope that doesn't happen-) the person on the other side might not be as understanding of her situation as her father was.
BIB - the thing is, who could Ella have turned to if she didn't want to go along with the fake RO plot?

She wasn't in school at the time, thanks to Alice.

What other responsible adults in her life were there that she could have turned to for advice, or to have said "my mother wants me to do this, but I don't want to"?
 
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I’ve been thinking about what’s going on with Ella, and the disapprobation she still receives on these threads sometimes.
I teach psychology to pre-U students - one of my many hats. I won’t go into axons and dendrons; but I think it’s important to bear in mind what happens to the brain as a child reaches adolescence. In short, it’s Armageddon. Grey matter decreases; white matter increases. The brain refolds itself, trimming away extraneous matter. Neurons and neuronal activity increases. Emotions run riot. A teenager’s social state reflects directly on her mental state, and vice versa. Lifelong tendencies to depression and addiction are established during the teen years. Ella has been going through years of hell. We only see the carnage of Casa Evans from a distance. Ella is in the middle of it.
Alice referred to the girls as her ‘life’s work’. IG, for the sake of his own sanity - and I don’t think it would be pushing the envelope through the sorting-office wall to say ‘existence’ - left Ella at the worst possible time in her development, because Alice left him no choice in so doing. She was on the cusp of young adulthood, where, as mentioned above, the brain goes through sizeable and unalterable changes. Physical development, menstruation - with its huge challenges, not the least of which means a young woman realises her capacity for fertility and has to guard against it, plus all the predatory behaviour from the males of the species it brings - and, as a Harvard study suggests, cycling through every single human emotion once every twenty four hours… plus the nightmare of a manipulative and damaging mother-figure who punishes where she should praise, and praises where she should punish.
Ella should have been allowed to follow the normal maturation process, i.e. begin to separate herself from the mother figure and explore her own identity. (Usually, this involves a lot of slammed doors, ‘I hate you’, and competition.) Instead, she was forced to believe she could ‘change’ and counsel her own father. She had to witness her mother’s incessant drunkenness, alarming behaviour, and experience foulmouthed abuse. Ella endured endless tales of her father’s apparent betrayal, to the extent she became brainwashed against him. Then, at a time when she should have been indulging in customary adolescent risk-taking and social interaction, she was pulled from school and wider society for an entire year and isolated with an abusive, substance-addicted woman. God knows how many hours Alice worked on Ella. And God only knows what Alice claimed, given her unfamiliarity with the truth. I wouldn’t be surprised if Evans claimed IG perpetrated the most vile and horrific crimes in an effort to get Ella onside.
What seems to be forgotten is just how young Ella is. Her shocking behaviour during the sleepover is not that of an adult, but a much younger child. Older adolescents may have indulged in a bit of arson and/or criminal damage. Ella threw around groceries and ran away. The account of her behaviour by the psychiatrist is more reminiscent of a nine-year-old - and the judge saw it.
Because she has been simultaneously infantilised and parentified, she has been forced into the position whereby she feels responsible for Alice, yet has absolutely no compulsion to mature. Her various crimes - hacking into his IG and posting infantile messages, stealing $400 for Christmas presents - are the actions of a much younger person. Her height is irrelevant. She’s a damaged, disturbed kid who has been kept in a near-hostage situation. She has had no chance to develop at her own speed, and her enforced isolation ensures she’s infantilised.
She’s not beyond hope, though. The therapist with whom she is working will be making sizeable changes. By appealing to her immaturity, they will hopefully be able to instill in her the foundations for responsible, mature adulthood. But it is incredibly difficult to undo that much manipulation, estrangement and faux-adoration. Pushing her down the model route, so that Alice can be a Kardashian-style momager, is a catastrophic mistake. While Ella is undoubtedly a beautiful girl, she has neither the maturity nor resilience to cope with the dark, cutthroat, shallow and insincere world of modelling.
I think IG knows all this, which is why he hasn’t given up hope. It may take years for Ella to grow up and wake up to what has been done to her, but he will always be ready to welcome her home. She is a desperately wounded soul who needs understanding and compassion, no matter how vilely she has behaved. It is best not to judge her by adult standards, but see her as the wounded, manipulated child that she is.

(Apologies for the essay. Returning to lurking - depression. Love to all.)
Such a thoughtful, educational post. Thank you Autisteuse and big hugs as you battle the Black Dog x
 
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I find it shocking that she hasnt, the way Alice treated her in court by abandoning her was utterly disgusting (and showed that since "be a mother" nothing has changed in her treatment of her kids).
Yes I think I would notice being left alone in a court with no lawyer and a made up case against my dad and his gf even at 14. It was humiliating and Ella's body language when she was papped outside the court (thanks Mommy Dearest) showed that.

Judge: I don’t think you accuse her of purposely slamming; is that right? Is that fair?”
Ella: “Yeah, I’m not saying that she did. I don’t know myself.”

The whole case fell apart in a second. Just going over the transcript, AFE and her soldier were woefully ill prepared. I think that's what the hearings will be like. AFE constantly interrupting and then running off if a hard question is asked. It will be a tit show. Good job she has such a great lawyer like Bernal to carry the can for her. :rolleyes:
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she is a pretty awful parent, and teenagers like to take advantage out of awful parents.
Yeah but she might notice the fun stuff that's on BW's timeline. If I was 14 I would want to go to a bowling alley, Joshua Tree, maybe even meet Uncle Alun etc. I know kids are addicted to phones but staying in looking at a screen all day gets boring eventually. AFE does nothing except sock, visit the supermarket and moan about the 'bogan' and the 'dead beat dad'. That's boring.
 
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BIB - the thing is, who could Ella have turned to if she didn't want to go along with the fake RO plot?

She wasn't in school at the time, thanks to Alice.

What other responsible adults in her life were there that she could have turned to for advice, or to have said "my mother wants me to do this, but I don't want to"?
Yep, her isolation works really well, doesn't it?
That's also a reason why I question any of Alices so called "friends". What kind of a person do you have to be not only to see this behaviour and think it's totally fine but also to actively encourage it? What reasonable adult would look at this kids past actions and still believe all of those "we're so happy posts" on instagram?
I just hope that someday Ella will be able to open up to someone about this whole mess and move past it.
 
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Yes I think I would notice being left alone in a court with no lawyer and a made up case against my dad and his gf even at 14. It was humiliating and Ella's body language when she was papped outside the court (thanks Mommy Dearest) showed that.

Judge: I don’t think you accuse her of purposely slamming; is that right? Is that fair?”
Ella: “Yeah, I’m not saying that she did. I don’t know myself.”

The whole case fell apart in a second. Just going over the transcript, AFE and her soldier were woefully ill prepared. I think that's what the hearings will be like. AFE constantly interrupting and then running off if a hard question is asked. It will be a tit show. Good job she has such a great lawyer like Bernal to carry the can for her. :rolleyes:
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Yeah but she might notice the fun stuff that's on BW's timeline. If I was 14 I would want to go to a bowling alley, Joshua Tree, maybe even meet Uncle Alun etc. I know kids are addicted to phones but staying in looking at a screen all day gets boring eventually. AFE does nothing except sock, visit the supermarket and moan about the 'bogan' and the 'dead beat dad'. That's boring.
well, that's why she uses other families to cover that (my parents did the same, except they did that because they were working every day). Elsie has done various trips within California (one time it was even prioritised over visitation with her dad) and we have seen videos of Ella bowling with other girls.


I think it's important to really read that first sentence and think about how Alice has not protected her oldest daughter in any meaningful way. It was two years ago that there was all the craziness of the hacking of Ioan's instagram and it seems like there were other kids and/or adults that were commenting on it until control was regained. When the video of Ella was released of her fake RO and circulated on twitter, it's part of a discord thingy of others who may or may not be kids but it may also be adults. It had the Ella pissed herself thing on it. Now, maybe it's a joke but wtf is that?

Who are the people that the daughter is interacting with and do you really think that Alice has vetted them? Do you think they are as quality as Lupine or strange non-family people who are pretending to be grandparents? She has pubic social media profiles for reasons that make no gd sense to me, especially in a case this high profile.

Alice already has started to put chatter online about how her daughter will soon be able to drive.

Strangers know this - meaning thousands of strangers know it. Not on tattle, from Alice. My heart breaks for the kids that they are allowed to be online for anything beyond school, unsupervised, with pictures of them as children, for anyone to see.
I went last week on her tiktok and noticed that the user she interacts most with is someone with a errr pretty explicit username that has called her an "annoying stupid anorexic ass" (I get sometimes it's jokes, but...) - I obviously don't know if her online friends are also her real life friends, but online friends are in those situations pretty dangerous because they tend (not all, obviously) to give "advice" that is to their entertainments benefit because they are simply too far away to be impacted by the consequences of any action they are encouraging. I can well imagine that those freaks on Ella's discord chat are exactly these kind of "friends" (and I put this in quotation marks by intention because from my experience in moderating discord servers those little friend circles are usually pretty toxic and all about being cool enough to belong there, which given the above quoted comment and the DM group name methinks is also the case here)
 
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Aw, look how lovely and relaxed I looks being filmed in a normal way by a normal fiancèe in a normal setting. How bloody beautiful and normal 😍
 
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