Ioan Gruffudd & Alice Evans #196 Sure, Jan

[lulooo]

PART 2

Ella nods affirmatively.

Judge: “Okay. And then, the flipside of that, of course, is that I would presume that we have to resolve this issue—that is, was there domestic violence or not, before we can have the custody hearing. Is that not right or wrong? I think that’s right.”

Anne Kiley states that she would also oppose a continuance and that there are complicated issues in the dissolution proceeding, which Ella is not part of, such as the influence and “the problems in the case and why she’s here.” Anne Kiley states that “there are serious issues that need to be dealt with in the dissolution proceeding. Frankly, there are reasons that this case should be in dependency court, not because Ms. Wallace or Mr. Gruffudd are child abusers, but because we believe that Ella and her sister are victims of abuse by their mom. So we’re—”

Alice again interrupts the court.

Alice: “Oh my God!”

Anne Kiley: “We want—”

Judge: “Please. Please. I’m going to ask everybody to refrain.”

Alice: “No. It—it—”

Judge: “No. No. No. There’s no “No.” Please just—everybody keep your composure. Go ahead, counsel.”

Anne Kiley: “Family Code 3044 applies as it relates to Ms. Evans, because we have a restraining order against her, and the situation is so horrible for the family—”

Alice interrupts again but her words are unintelligible to the court reporter because she is speaking at the same time as Anne Kiley.

Anne Kiley: “—that we want it heard today. And we oppose the continuance.”

Gregory Jessner: “Your Honor, if I may. I agree with what Ms. Kiley said. I should add, my client, unfortunately, does suffer from a very serious medical condition. She has M.S. and the stress of this proceeding is debilitating for her, and she needs to get this past so she can reclaim her health, your Honor. So I do, for that reason, very strongly oppose a continuance to the extent that one is requested.”

The Judge states that he will read the case over a little closer and asks Ella if she is asking the court for a continuance and, if so, if she intends to hire a lawyer. Ella responds, “I’d like to hire a lawyer. Yeah.” The Judge inquires whether Ella has the ability to get counsel. Ella responds, “I think so, yeah.”

The Judge states that Anne Kiley makes a good point, that this is a well-noticed hearing, that Ella or someone on her behalf put together a fairly comprehensive pleading, and that he has to weigh Ella’s interest in getting her case effectively tried against Bianca’s interest in getting some finality in light of her medical condition and the hardship a delay would cause her.

Ella: “Could I also add, my mom also has a medical condition?”

Alice interrupts the court again.

Alice: “Thank you.”

Ella: “My mom also has a medical condition that’s like—it’s hard for her as well.”

Judge: “Right. Except your mom—I don’t mean to sound insensitive, okay, but your mom isn’t a party—”

Ella: “Okay. I’m sorry.”

Judge: “—to the two cases that we’re dealing with today. Okay?”

Alice: “We tried. I tried to, but she’s over—she’s over 12.”

Ella: “My mom—”

Judge (to Alice): “I just—I can’t hear from you. You don’t have standing right now, ma’am.”

Alice: “Go ahead.”

Ella: “All I knew was that I had to file it because I was over the age of 12. But I didn’t—like, anything I was supposed to do. So like, I didn’t know I was supposed to get an attorney or anything.”

Judge: “You don’t have to get an attorney.”

Ella: “Okay.”

Judge: “I want to be clear with you. I just want to make sure—you’re a child in the midst of a highly contentious divorce between your parents, and I want to make sure that what you’re doing here today, whether it happens today or it happens at a later date, I want to make sure that what’s happening is in your best interests and that you really want it.”

Ella: “Okay. Thank you.”

Judge: “And that this isn’t a subtext to something else. That’s my concern.”

Ella: “Okay.”

The Judge asks if there is anything else the parties wish to discuss before breaking for lunch and then diving deeper into the two issues after lunch. Hearing nothing, the court adjourns for lunch.

~Noon Recess~

-END OF PART 2-

Again poor Ella, trying to protect her mother by saying that she, the Abuser also has a medical condition and that it’s difficult for her too. The Abuser has lazy cuntitis together with abusive lyingitis. How can the Abuser do this to her own child? She has done a masterful job of PA
, pity she couldn’t put all that energy into something productive, like getting off her fat ass and getting a job.

 

[twittwottoo]

Fuck me that woman is deplorable. Mothers have to sit in court when their children have been murdered, face the cunt that murdered them and listen to the gory details of how their beloved child died and Alice couldn’t be arsed to sit with her daughter on a stupid jumped up RO. I HATE HER

 

[Citney]

Jesus Christ, that poor child.

I have a feeling Ioan’s heart was breaking.

 

[M33L4]

Tell me you asked Lupine to submit this RO without telling me.
I think both things can be true. Alice can manipulate Ella and Ella can be a liar as per these court transcripts.

 

[welp]

I wouldnt say this transcript shows how smart Ella is but rather how well (or rather not) she is in carrying out malicious plans. The judge (who was brilliant imo) had calmly talked sense into her and she agreed with him. It's btw clear that she realized that she "fucked up" then because she then tried to re-open the discussion again.

i btw like how Alice lied to the judge about what the therapist said. Coz if that were true why was Alice so desperate for them to not have therapy while Ioan was. She panicked there.

It's no wonder that Ella isnt good at this when the master already sucks.

another cock up is Ella's whataboutism about Alice's "illness". the case isnt about Alice, but uhhh...thanks for confirming that it is!

unbelievable that they go ahead with this scam but dont hire a lawyer.

edit: noticed my earlier comment got swallowed. reposting below

A note regarding Discord: It is pretty complicated to set up a recording on discord. You need to set up over your browser a client for every new voice chat you are recording (eg if you did a recording on Server A the day before it will not work on Server B without setting it up again) and then connect it with OBS to record. Of course you could just screenrecord somehow instead but the voice chat is often not reliable enough to then get captured properly and OBS is often malfunctioning that way. What I'm trying to say with this: the friend will have prepared for the recording, and Ella also gives this away by saying she consented to being recorded.

As for the transcript: LMAO. I gave Alice WAAAAY too much credit. I always assumed she would at least try in front of the judge to put an act on, but she is acting almost as bad as in the worst parodies. The judge has 100 % seen through her.

 

[NarcRage]

What 9 year old says they want to kill themselves rather then be with a chaperone? This is really alarming that Alice puts these histrionic ideas into their heads. Everything she does is so out of proportion.

Also did we get to the bottom of why iris was subpoenaed?

I'd love to know what Alice is going after her about.

 

[Tabitha D]

That first part of the transcript is depressing. Poor Ella, completely out of her depth and put there by her witch of a mother.

 

[sweetnessfollows]

Well mAlice managed to demonstrate to the Judge very clearly that she is manipulative, happy to throw her kids under the bus and cannot control herself even in court

I think the judge knows she's dangerous now. Sure, it's one thing to not control yourself online but quite another to have repeated outbursts in court.

And I really am focused on the use of the word "dysregulated" when describing the events. It might be more parlance of a family court judge, but it is something that very much stands out. The judge can see Ella needs intervention to prevent further dysregulation.

 

[IKickLikeKatya]

Reading Al's actual words and interruptions of the judge makes it painfully obvious how stupid she is. I can't believe she actually accused the therapists being "in cahoots" to the judge.

Some people don't have a support system close to them because of circumstances. Al had nobody because she is unbearable to be around.

 

[Loveu2]

Ella: “Yeah, I’m not saying that she did. I don’t know myself.”

Alice is fucked and I think she knows it.

 

[M33L4]

I’m back. Tell me you want a wedding photo Alice, without telling me…
Trying to catch up and have come back to transcripts?? Woohoooo

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Can you imagine Ella having to go home and face Alice’s fury after all this, because Ella was not able to stick to the script?

It brings back bad memories for me.

We never were in court but when I had not said the thing my mother wanted in some public or social situation and she could not lash out instantly I knew and felt it (a horrible sinking feeling -- I even feel it now, your all body so tense it is trembling) that there was hell to pay when we returned home.

I ran away a few times and once even threw myself in front of a moving car (was lucky, the speed was low and the driver managed to avoid me -- poor driver though) as I felt that being dead or being injured and in the hospital would be easier and a way to avoid her wrath.

(That time my extreme behaviour startled her though, made her ever more convinced that I am mad -- and we had to go to the ER for my bleeding knees and palms, yet I avoided the major drama and punishment for whatever trivial mistake I had made).

Poor Ella.

(Also, if there is any truth in Alice's claim that Ioan did not look even once at their direction, then it must have felt awful too).

 

[maggie72]

Alice & co wondering how everyone knows things posted in publicly available court documents, her own social media, and daily mail articles. What a mystery.

 

[Hiraeth]

-PART 4-

The Judge said that he had to abide by the “clear and convincing” evidence standard and, taking all of the evidence into account, he doesn’t think that this is civil harassment.

Judge: “As I say to my kids, you want better, you’ve got to do better; right? So if you want positive reactions to you, you’ve got to put positive in the world; right? And if you don’t want negative, you’ve got to at least—if you can’t muster positive, you’ve got to muster neutral; right? But coming in with milk—as I say to my kids, you’re coming in hot. You can’t come in hot; right? So I think this was a really unfortunate incident, and I hope for you—because someday this case is going to be over and you’re going back to being a kid, which is what I want for you, okay. And I don’t know what’s going to happen with Dad and Mom and Ms. Wallace. That’s—those are issues for another day. But what I want for you—if Dad and Ms. Wallace continue to see each other, maybe there’ll be an opportunity for a reset. Maybe, who knows, but I don’t think what I’ve heard here today and what I’ve read, I don’t think it’s civil harassment. So I’m going to deny your request.”

Ella nods.

The Judge asks if there’s anything Ella thinks he has missed that they should talk about.

Ella: “One thing. I just don’t know why anyone would, like, try to close a door when someone’s clearly trying to exit it. Like, if I’m there, why wouldn’t you even go near it before making sure I’m out of the way. And also, I don’t know if you’ve mentioned it, but it said that I was out, and then put my arm back in.”

Judge: “Say that again.”

Ella: “One person mentioned that I was out of the apartment, then put my arm back in when she was trying to close the door, which is kind of just, like, contradicting. That adds to the case at all or is it just—”

Judge: (shaking head)

Ella: “Okay. I’m sorry.”

Judge: “No. What I think happened was…I think you were trying to get out. I’m not clear what Ms. Wallace was trying to do, but…there’s just no explanation that I could imagine she divined. It would be a great idea to slam a door on Dad’s child. I just—that doesn’t ring as likely, especially when, you know, she seems to want to get to know you. Again, I’m not opining whether that’s a good or bad thing, whether you need to be receptive to that or not. Those are different issues for a different day. But, that’s a big leap from ‘I want to get to know you’ to ‘I’m going to, like, do something to harm you.’ That just doesn’t—that doesn’t feel like what’s going on to me, to be honest with you…And I think everything was going down. And it was going down quickly, and it was a lot of chaos, and a lot of confusion, and some anger and some big emotions. And I suspect her seeing you and your sister getting ready to leave—at worst, it probably caused some concern. And I could imagine a scenario, where if I were in shoes, my instinct would be to close the door, because you don’t let a 13-year-old and a 9-year-old run out the door, but you know, it’s not going to get any better outside. You know, especially if we’re chasing down and trying to find you. I mean, this is a crazy world we live in. So I hear you. I understand. I think it was an unfortunate set of circumstances, but I just don’t find that you met your burden; you weren’t able to show me that what she did was harassment, the way the statute defines it. Okay?”

Ella: (nods affirmatively)

The Judge then stated the ruling of the court was that the civil harassment restraining order request was denied and he would honor Ella’s request to continue the restraining order request against Ioan.

Bianca’s attorney, Gregory Jessner, then removed himself to the back of the courtroom since his involvement was over.

It appears that Ella tried to leave then, as well, but Anne Kiley let Ella know that they still had to deal with her request for the restraining order against Ioan. Ella agreed and apologized. Anne Kiley asked the Judge whether Alice could come into the courtroom since she was a self-represented party in the dissolution case. The Judge requested a 10-minute break, then Alice and Ioan could come back in and deal with logistics of continuing the hearing.

~Court Recess~

-END OF PART 4-

 

[Hermes Banana]

What a sad read that was. Alice clearly wearing her Interjecting gilet.

 

[BessieNessie]

At the tender age of three thirty one Alice was orphaned.

By her mid forties she was estranged from her father and his lovely wife.

At a little over fifty she was left destitute and evicted onto the streets, a divorcee.

And now at 55 she’s submitting her financials. Get your tissues ready everyone, this is going to be a real tear jerker. She can frame it how she likes and pull all the pity parties she wants but the receipts don’t lie.

 

[Ametrine]

How long will the kids use the Evans sur name after they see what Alice has done to them.


View attachment 2347584

It's funny, Alice claims that Ioan's mother didn't like her because she was "racist" against Alice as Alice wasn't Welsh enough.

However, Alice, and now Tone, both make fun of the Welsh spelling of Ioan's surname. Who's the xenophobe now?

 

[Hiraeth]

Thanks to our wonderful legal experts @Hiraeth and @ButterTart, you pair of legends , do you know what the 3044 is about?

I put it in a note in the summary--here's a brief explanation:

Family Code 3044 is a California law that states that if a party seeking custody of a child has perpetrated domestic violence against the other party seeking custody of the child or against the child or the child’s siblings within the previous 5 years, there is a rebuttable presumption that an award of sole or joint physical or legal custody of a child to a person who has perpetrated domestic violence is detrimental to the best interest of the child.

 

[AnneinHever]

I'm so sorry! It got cut off. I'll post it as part 2.5. So sorry!!!

Please, don’t apologize. We are thankful for all you do

 

[Ninas purse]

Huge thanks to @Hiraeth and @ButterTart. It really was so much worse than I had imagined. Not only did Alice completely fail to prepare Ella for the situation - the girl hadn't even read what Bianca, Ioan or the witnesses were going to say, but she bailed out on her when she (Ella) had to speak to the judge because she was upset. Be a mother for heaven's sake Alice - you were the reason Ella was up there in court trying to get a RO based on nothing at all, and you can't support her because you are upset?

Alice was too scared to show up to court in her own DVRO, but she's happy to put her daughter through it without preparing her. Mind, I imagine that Alice in her head, still thinks that Ioan's DVRO against her isn't justified, so because she didn't fully participate in her own case, she thought that you just rock up and it's granted.

Then the continuation of the 'He didn't even say 'hello to them' crap. As I said before, what the actual hell? They're in court trying to get a RO against him: he can't just wander up to them and start chewing the fat. Alice would, as Anne Kiley said, have screamed blue murder saying that he was trying to intimidate them. It would have killed him to be in that situation with his little girl claiming that he's abused her and she wants him to stay away from him. What the hell is wrong with Alice?

I think the judge was bit wishy-washy with Alice, but he was brilliant with Ella. You can tell that he really felt sorry for her and understood that she was being manipulated by her mother and that at the end of the day, she's just a frightened kid caught up in a horrible mess. I'm not in anyway excusing her behaviour because she's old enough to know better, but the judge was excellent with her. I really liked how he said to her that he tells his kids 'you want better, you've got to do better', when he was gently pointing out that her behaviour in the flat was out of order. He said that when she threw the milk, she was coming in hot, and you can't come in hot. There's got to be a thread title in there somehow! Sadly, Alice seems to spend her life coming in hot.

I don't blame Ella. She is a kid trying to survive a situation she doesn't understand, with a mother constantly dripping poison in her ear, isolating her from everyone. Her actions in court shows how that evil woman has manipulated her. She has been parentified and made to believe that she has to protect her mother.
There is hope for her because the moment Alice is out of the courtroom she conceded that there was no assault. She grasped at the lifeline the judge offered her. I hope Ioan gets full custody and both the girls can recover from that evil woman. Ella will be in school in the next few weeks, therapy is hopefully going well. Both girls deserve to enjoy what's left of their childhood. Alice can go drown in a bottle of the cheapest vodka.