I dont think anybody here blames any of the children for anything. No one has been insulting them. Everybody pointed out repeatedly that blame rests entirely with mAlice. To deny the fact that she has weaponised her eldest is in my view enabling the abuse to continue and more importantly aiding the oldest transition to a full blown narc.
i want to add I fully appreciate what everybody saying about the fear, emotional blackmail, lies etc these girls are being subjected to. And I do feel for them. I just believe that sadly (yes, sadly as I dont want it to be this way) E seeing through at least some of her mother’s antics and even defending her little sister does not necessarily mean she will not grow up into mAlice version 2. These things are not mutually exclusive unfortunately. We all tend to draw on our experiences. As I mentioned before, my story is very similar to Yo and Bee. Except my other half kids were boys and a bit older. Im hearing others who grew up with abusive narcissistic mothers and turned out to be lovely, compassionate and authentic individuals. However E seems - at least for now - be going in exactly same direction as my other half’s oldest. And drawing on my experience and seeing the dynamic I suspected it would go this way. My husband’s oldest, now a grown up, to this day hates his father, his paternal grandparents and even his god parents (friends of his father of course). The way he behaved towards his father and grandparents during the divorce was appalling. I think he grew up to be a real peace of shit. And part of the problem? That he was not called out on his shit behaviour when young. Everybody were like “oh but he is really upset". Upset enough to call his lovely gentle grandma a bitch just because she dared to call to see how he is. Him being upset and under the influence of a manipulative, unkind and unstable mother is of course an explanation. But NOT AN EXCUSE. He also perceived his father as a commodity that dared to withdraw its services (money, lifts to places etc). I see that in E’s behaviour too. Although Im sure others, who pointed that fear for her excuse of a mother also play a big role are right. And of course us calling out E’s behaviour as unacceptable is neither here nor there, she wont (I hope) see that nor would take any notice. But us expressing our opinion in the lines that her behaviour is not ok and scaringly like her mother’s (even though we understand the cause) is not victim blaming. My husband’s youngest was clearly bullied into compliance by his mother and older brother, but came back when he became independent, and now he is a grown up they have amiable relationship. Not as close as could have been, but good.
To me the dynamic similarities as in oldest = older E, youngest = little E are uncanny.
I really hope things will turn around for the girls and Ioan eventually. After all, my husband did not have the benefit of therapy, not even had access to so much information on narc’s behaviour and domestic abuse as it wasnt as available at the time (mind you, his ex wasnt as relentless as mAlice either, but probably because she succeeded in alienation sooner).
I also really hope Yo gets a lot of therapy (and this is expensive, I hope he can afford it) as well as coaching in behaviour and dealing with alienated children - looks like he does, from what Ive read. I know it sounds ridiculous as I dont know these people for Adam, but I would like to give him and B a big, big hug. I wish they knew how much support they have. And I hope he remains strong and manages to rebuild his life and career. I wish we could help. I wish we could just throw a bucket of water over the Wicked Witch of the West and make her melt into oblivion.
PS this long rant was written whilst in the online meeting. Im not sure Ive heard a word they said