Maggiemaynot
VIP Member
Oh can that please be the next thread title! Simply, #117 Basically, She’s Unhinged
- Notice
NutMegandCinnamong
Well-known member
I’m so touched that someone remembered me!Hello I saw you were back the other day having been away a whileNot sure if it's ok to comment on a poster's absence? ...but glad to see you back Nutmeg !
Glad to be back, I had to take a break from those idiots, they were doing my head in!Some personal stuff in the spoiler tag, feel free to skip.
Some might remember way back in February that I mentioned my mum’s cancer had spread, and the support and kindness I received was so lovely. I’m pleased to say that after having chemo, both of her tumours have shrunk by more than half, and are not currently ‘active’. The doctors are firmly optimistic that she will have “many years” to look forward to. She has also kept her hair, only having thinned out a bit. She will begin treatment soon, and will likely also have surgery as long as she stays healthy, which will also help to prolong her life. Compared to what we were thinking back then, we’re blessed. Obviously she will never be cured, but we are hopeful that we will have her with us for much, much longer than we thought. Just wanted to update you all and say thank you once again.
timemachinephantom
Well-known member
Just saw this on Quora. Thought you Tattlettes might like it too.
50sGirl
VIP Member
I don’t believe that the children are dolls so I just scroll on by those posts. Who am I to judge what others believe? I certainly wouldn’t insult fellow members by calling them deluded and deranged.
Have you ever read comments from fans of the gruesome twosome? They wish death on the Royal Family - including the children! Now THAT is truly vile. You will have not seen anyone on this thread wish death on H&Ms children.
Finally (and apologies but I’ve always wanted to say this... ) - this is not an airport lounge, no need to announce your departure! 
Have you ever read comments from fans of the gruesome twosome? They wish death on the Royal Family - including the children! Now THAT is truly vile. You will have not seen anyone on this thread wish death on H&Ms children.
Finally (and apologies but I’ve always wanted to say this...
) - this is not an airport lounge, no need to announce your departure! 
Churchill's Ghost
VIP Member
So this article in The Times is the family taking off the gloves. We predicted that they would wait for the baby to arrive, and the added insult of the name means that they are not holding back. The Twits can’t claim retaliation because all of this was documented well before Megxit.
Can’t stop laughing at Harry’s claim that she was incredible at the job. Sure Jan…we all know what kind of job she is incredible at and it ain’t the one representing the RF
Can’t stop laughing at Harry’s claim that she was incredible at the job. Sure Jan…we all know what kind of job she is incredible at and it ain’t the one representing the RF
Lilliesgran
Active member
bearysecret
New member
Long time lurker here coming out for quite selfish reasons in need of understanding people!
Glad to know there are people who feel the same as i about the gruesome twosome! Anyway..
My partner ex wife (awful) has got ‘the Bench’ for him from the kids for Father’s Day. So there is now a copy in my house! Wtf! I might have known she would be a sugar. Fucks sake I need wine. I felt immediate rage when I saw it.
Glad to know there are people who feel the same as i about the gruesome twosome! Anyway..
My partner ex wife (awful) has got ‘the Bench’ for him from the kids for Father’s Day. So there is now a copy in my house! Wtf! I might have known she would be a sugar. Fucks sake I need wine. I felt immediate rage when I saw it.
Bubblesdahling
VIP Member
Anyone for a spot of afternoon tea 
🫖
🫖
freda19
VIP Member
I agree totally.
I think people tend to forget that he was a nasty little shit long before Di died. He was clearly a child "with issues" exaccerbated by his mother insisting on babying him while expecting Wills to just get on with things. After Di popped her clogs this attitude was continued with everyone trying to pander even more to his every whim and even cover his misdeeds. He should have had counselling and therapy and been sent to an appropriate school that focused on building his personality and mental health rather than academic prowess, but Diana insisted, if Wills did Eton then Baby haz must do Eton cos haz is just as good as Wills.
In all honesty he is beyond help. If all the therapists and voodoo guys haven't had the bollox to tell him there is nothing wrong with him that a dose of reality and anger management won't cure then he's fucked. It is just so weird that he had all those wealthy clever mates and none of them are prepared to tell him straight that he's being a cunt and needs to ditch his enabler if he ever wants to get healthy again. First step, ditch the bitch. But he can't, cos magic minge.
It's so unhealthy the way he lives, under guard, under control, constantly seeking mind perfection that doesn't exist for anybody in the whole world. We are all broken in some way, that's just a fact that he doesn't get. He is not unique in his turmoil. He just thinks he is, and thinks it means he deserves special treatment. Fuck off haz and grow up. Heading toward 40 and still behaving like a hormonal 14 yr old girl.
I hope at some point someone challenges the narrative of Meghan being thrown in at the deep end, and clueless about protocol and scrutiny.
H&M set themselves up as so perfectly in tune, in love with, and protective of each other.
They throw shade at W&K - “poor, trapped them; they don’t have what we have”
Yet W&K lived together for some time before getting engaged because W wanted K to be absolutely sure that she knew what she was getting into by joining the RF.
THIS, imo, is what you do when you don’t want your loved one to be completely shell shocked by being thrown into the deep end of royal life like Diana was.
H on the other hand, seemingly couldn’t be bothered to even make sure his wife knew the National anthem.
He continually spouts his diatribe about not wanting his wife to suffer what his mum did, yet the lazy, entitled arse couldn’t be bothered to do anything constructive to make sure it didn’t happen, apart from belly aching about it, and blaming others.
He really is being so exposed as the self absorbed, weak, selfish and entitled brat that he is.
Harry’s marriage might just be the best thing that ever happened to William’s public image.
H&M set themselves up as so perfectly in tune, in love with, and protective of each other.
They throw shade at W&K - “poor, trapped them; they don’t have what we have”
Yet W&K lived together for some time before getting engaged because W wanted K to be absolutely sure that she knew what she was getting into by joining the RF.
THIS, imo, is what you do when you don’t want your loved one to be completely shell shocked by being thrown into the deep end of royal life like Diana was.
H on the other hand, seemingly couldn’t be bothered to even make sure his wife knew the National anthem.
He continually spouts his diatribe about not wanting his wife to suffer what his mum did, yet the lazy, entitled arse couldn’t be bothered to do anything constructive to make sure it didn’t happen, apart from belly aching about it, and blaming others.
He really is being so exposed as the self absorbed, weak, selfish and entitled brat that he is.
Harry’s marriage might just be the best thing that ever happened to William’s public image.
freda19
VIP Member
I don't want them to divorce just yet. I want him to suffer lots more of her embarrassing publicity stunts and I want her to suffer his temper tantrums till her ears bleed. Then they can divorce.
In all seriousness, at this point he is trapped. More trapped than the trappiest trapness of his papa and big bro.
Does anyone think she has invested her own few million in any of this shit? The house price was $14million and the mortgage is $9million so the deposit was 5 million.The upkeep costs and staffing alone must be horrendous. Then the different PR companies cost and paying magazines for puff piieces. Then the cost of producing the crotch goblins. With nothing coming in since the "My mummy died" pity party at the Morgan Stanley event and the heffalump voiceover money. Even allowing for whatever money porka slipped them from from her mental health shows where he performed like a trained monkey their living costs in expensive Cali are horrific. Hazza has invested far too much of dead mummy's money in this arrangement and he'll be terrified to cut his losses too soon.
But it's all good, because when the divorce happens it will be carnage.
Flairey
VIP Member
Just seen this on Insta. What a surprise. View attachment 622409
[/QUOTE]
This actually pisses me right off. It shouldn't but it does. I have major anxiety and the most horrible flash backs travelling in the car, following a serious car crash leaving me in a wheelchair.. Husband can't get petrol with me in the car because the smell is one of my strongest triggers and I'm a gibbering wreck. I've had all sorts of therapy to try and get over it but guess what, it doesn't ever go away. You have to live with it and get the fuck on with your life. So if someone like little old me can deal with it this odious little goblin can deal with it. Besides, and I may be doing him a major injustice, if London was such a huge trigger for him, I'm sure granny could have found him somewhere out of the city that could have made things a little easier.
For example Mr Flairey has bought a motor bike and sidecar, I love it, no flashbacks and I can have a lovely day out. The fact I resemble Nora batty is irrelevant. You find ways to deal. I'm not saying it's easy to do, it isn't, far from it I find that pink Sparkly unicorns said over and over in my head makes car travel a little easier, doing crosswords or reading a book, anything to distract from the fact I'm in a car.
I have no doubt he is triggered by certain things the things he has gone through would suggest its very probable. However, I suspect, like the post says his wife has told him London triggers him. when they launched heads together, it would have been the perfect opportunity for him to speak out about it. He would have reached so many people because he was more relatable then. I also think William would have supported him with it and it would have been something the whole family would have got behind him in. Of this I am sure. I genuinely think he has PTSD, but I also know there is no way on earth I would have had a therapy session like he had on TV. No. Fukin. Way. It was an absolutely horrific experience, I wouldn't want my sheer terror out there for the world to see.
Maybe I'm wrong and I'm doing him a serious injustice, but I feel he's making a mockery of the whole PTSD issue, there are many many people who are completely debilitated by it, people not as lucky as me to have an incredible support network. People who are drinking to complete oblivion and self medicating with legal and illegal drugs (which he has admitted to doing) to get through their day, prefering to be out of their heads than live with the horrors they've experienced. Families utterly destroyed by it, because the sufferer has committed suicide because they cannot cope with what has happened. I know it is possible to have PTSD from hearing about things, I have a friend who fostered seriously abused children and the disclosures they gave to her have left her incredibly traumatised due to the fact the children went into the whole trauma and totally re lived it. So yes it's possible he has it from his mother's death, but I have this awful, and I hope I'm wrong, feeling that this particular trauma is manufactured by the wife for monetary gains. Shoot me if you like..
[/QUOTE]
This actually pisses me right off. It shouldn't but it does. I have major anxiety and the most horrible flash backs travelling in the car, following a serious car crash leaving me in a wheelchair.. Husband can't get petrol with me in the car because the smell is one of my strongest triggers and I'm a gibbering wreck. I've had all sorts of therapy to try and get over it but guess what, it doesn't ever go away. You have to live with it and get the fuck on with your life. So if someone like little old me can deal with it this odious little goblin can deal with it. Besides, and I may be doing him a major injustice, if London was such a huge trigger for him, I'm sure granny could have found him somewhere out of the city that could have made things a little easier.
For example Mr Flairey has bought a motor bike and sidecar, I love it, no flashbacks and I can have a lovely day out. The fact I resemble Nora batty is irrelevant. You find ways to deal. I'm not saying it's easy to do, it isn't, far from it I find that pink Sparkly unicorns said over and over in my head makes car travel a little easier, doing crosswords or reading a book, anything to distract from the fact I'm in a car.
I have no doubt he is triggered by certain things the things he has gone through would suggest its very probable. However, I suspect, like the post says his wife has told him London triggers him. when they launched heads together, it would have been the perfect opportunity for him to speak out about it. He would have reached so many people because he was more relatable then. I also think William would have supported him with it and it would have been something the whole family would have got behind him in. Of this I am sure. I genuinely think he has PTSD, but I also know there is no way on earth I would have had a therapy session like he had on TV. No. Fukin. Way. It was an absolutely horrific experience, I wouldn't want my sheer terror out there for the world to see.
Maybe I'm wrong and I'm doing him a serious injustice, but I feel he's making a mockery of the whole PTSD issue, there are many many people who are completely debilitated by it, people not as lucky as me to have an incredible support network. People who are drinking to complete oblivion and self medicating with legal and illegal drugs (which he has admitted to doing) to get through their day, prefering to be out of their heads than live with the horrors they've experienced. Families utterly destroyed by it, because the sufferer has committed suicide because they cannot cope with what has happened. I know it is possible to have PTSD from hearing about things, I have a friend who fostered seriously abused children and the disclosures they gave to her have left her incredibly traumatised due to the fact the children went into the whole trauma and totally re lived it. So yes it's possible he has it from his mother's death, but I have this awful, and I hope I'm wrong, feeling that this particular trauma is manufactured by the wife for monetary gains. Shoot me if you like..
Chilli pepper 19
VIP Member
I do love the downplayed shade Richard always gives to everyone associated with Hazzno and his current wife
humilityrides
New member
Just wanted to come out of the woodwork..I joined tattle a while ago and lurked on the last 10 or so of the gruesome twosomes threads. Many hours of my life I will not get back, but oh how wonderful to find people who feel like I do about the two chunts.
Very few people in my day to day life feel how I do about smegma, you guys are a breath of fresh air. The friday evening wine made me brave enough to post.
Personally, I have an ex wife in my life who is as manipulative, deceiving, money hungry and generally as cray cray as Smegma. I believe all of the stories of Meghans Narcisism
Very few people in my day to day life feel how I do about smegma, you guys are a breath of fresh air. The friday evening wine made me brave enough to post.
Personally, I have an ex wife in my life who is as manipulative, deceiving, money hungry and generally as cray cray as Smegma. I believe all of the stories of Meghans Narcisism
Pixillated
Active member
Has this been posted?
Scorching…
www.thetimes.co.uk
AP
Robert Lacey
Saturday June 19 2021, 12.01am BST, The Times
So, are you saying,” asked Oprah Winfrey, talking to Meghan and Harry in their famous interview of March 2021, “that there were hints of jealousy?”
She was inquiring about the Sussexes’s wildly successful tour of Australia and the South Pacific of late October 2018, and the couple shifted uncomfortably in their plush wicker chairs.
“Look,” replied Harry, “I just wish that we would all learn from the past.”
By bringing up “the past”, the prince was venturing into an area that was almost taboo. He was making a sensational comparison between his mother and his wife. Harry was suggesting that Meghan had demonstrated in Australia the same massive star quality as Diana and was now having to face the family envy that went along with that.
“It really changed,” he said, “after the Australia tour, after our South Pacific tour . . . it was . . . the first time that the family got to see how incredible she is at the job. And that brought back memories.”
Memories of what? Again Harry shied away from putting words to the almost unmentionable. But Oprah had prepared and polished this moment, like so many others in the interview, and she had a reference ready to prompt her prince’s revelation. The latest, fourth season of TV’s The Crown had depicted Charles and Diana’s 1983 tour of Australia, showing how Diana had been “bedazzling” in her ability “to connect with people”. Episode six had depicted how the crowds would groan when they realised that Charles, not Diana, was walking down their side of the street — hence the beginnings of the “jealousy” on the family’s part.
“So is that what you’re talking about?” asked Oprah. “It brought back memories of that?”
“Yeah,” Harry finally replied in a fashion that was both dismal and unmistakably aggressive.
What on earth had happened, viewers had to wonder, to the old and once-familiar happy side of Prince Harry?
When trying to define the moment that marked the decisive rift with his brother William — the break-up and actual separation of the joint household they had established together in 2009 — Harry would fix upon his triumphant return with Meghan from their Australian tour at the end of October 2018. But if asked the same question, William would have fixed on a more specific event: the explosive argument he had had with his brother earlier that month.
Both brothers agreed how bitterly they had clashed back in the early days over William’s attempt to slow Harry’s courtship of Meghan — “Don’t feel like you need to rush this . . . ” But both of them had subsequently moved on. Harry’s transparent contentment with Meghan had relaxed the tensions, give or take the odd row over bridesmaids’ dresses. The “no speaks” had eased just a little by the time “best man” William escorted his brother down the aisle in May 2018.
Then five months later came the conclusive and determining rupture — the division that has lasted to the present day — though here the brothers’ retelling of history diverged. As Harry explained it to Oprah, Meghan’s Australian tour success sowed the jealousies that caused feelings to “change”. According to this scenario, William and Kate resented the Diana-like popularity that was generated by Harry’s wife. William had a different recollection.
We now know that Princes William and Harry were no longer on speaking terms before the Sussexes set off for Australia. Feelings had already “changed”, as Harry put it, and drastically so. The brothers had parted on extremely poor terms, with the trouble centring on Meghan’s stringent treatment and alleged bullying of her staff.
Most Kensington Palace courtiers were noted for the comparatively long tenures of their comfortable and prestigious jobs. But it came to look as if employees could not wait to escape service with Harry and Meghan. Those who left formed themselves into an informal fraternity that they titled the “Sussex Survivors’ Club”. They had finally hit back, and their organising agent had been PR man Jason Knauf.
The joint communications secretary for Kensington Palace — who was still, at that date, working on behalf of both of the brothers and their wives — had become concerned by the numerous stories of mistreatment being brought to him by colleagues whom he knew well and trusted.
Texas-born and New Zealand-educated, Knauf, 34, was a popular character in Kensington Palace, widely noted for his friendliness and loyalty towards his colleagues. He had been considered a real “catch” when the brothers snared him from the Royal Bank of Scotland in 2015, and one of his concerns was that professional management practices should be more effectively enforced inside the traditional British palace. Knauf’s American sensibilities caused him to see the Meghan situation as raising principles of human resources management in the palace system that needed to be formally addressed.
Knauf’s first priority was to set down the facts, as he saw them, for the record: “I’m very concerned,” he emailed to William’s private secretary Simon Case, in a document he drafted in October 2018, “that the duchess was able to bully two PAs out of the household in the past year.”
Knauf described Meghan’s treatment of one aide as “totally unacceptable . . . the duchess seems intent”, he wrote, “on always having someone in her sights”. Specifying another staff member, Knauf alleged Meghan had been bullying her as well, “seeking to undermine her confidence”. His office had received “report after report”, he wrote, from people who had witnessed “unacceptable behaviour” by Meghan towards this member of staff.
“Meghan governed by fear,” claimed one courtier. “So many people said it. Nothing was ever good enough for her. [She] humiliated staff in meetings, [would] shout at them, [would] cut them off email chains — and then demand to know why they hadn’t done anything.”
As early as 2017, around the time of the couple’s engagement, according to a subsequent report in The Times, a senior aide had spoken to the couple about the difficulties caused by their treatment of staff. “It’s not my job to coddle people,” Meghan was said to have replied.
“Americans can be much more direct,” wrote the authors Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durand in defence of the duchess, “and that often doesn’t sit well in the much more refined institution of the monarchy.”
A Brit might have raised an eyebrow at Meghan’s alleged behaviour, then looked the other way. The Yank decided to act. Knauf was actually one of Meghan’s most senior advisers — her chief adviser, in fact, when it came to public relations. Earlier that year she had gone to Knauf for help when drafting the disputed letter of severance that she sent to her father. She valued his PR expertise.
Before that, Knauf had helped Harry to word the fierce anti-media statements that he had framed to try to protect Meghan from press harassment, both as his girlfriend and then as his fiancée. The PR man had taken considerable stick from some of his non-royal contacts who criticised him as being overprotective in fighting the newcomer’s corner. Like so many people in all the palaces, Knauf had started off on Meghan’s side.
But as the months went by the American’s feelings became more ambiguous, as numerous colleagues — women whom he greatly respected — continued to bring him stories of what they said they had suffered at Meghan’s hands.
“I can’t stop shaking,” one aide had told a colleague in anticipation of an encounter with Meghan. Another reported that the prospect of confrontation with the duchess had made her “feel sick”. “Emotional cruelty and manipulation”, were the words of a third, “which I guess could also be called bullying.”
The b-word featured prominently in the accounts of several, along with an even more sinister set of initials: PTSD. Post-traumatic stress disorder was a deeply serious condition to allege — flashbacks, nightmares and feelings of deep anxiety — but that was how one complainant said that they had felt.
Several people maintained they had been “humiliated” by the duchess, and that criticism extended to Harry as well.
“I overheard a conversation between Harry and one of his top aides,” recalled one Kensington Palace courtier. “Harry was screaming and screaming down the phone. Team Sussex was a really toxic environment. People shouting and screaming in each other’s faces.”
Shouting and screaming? PTSD? Making people feel sick? Prince William went ballistic when he heard the “dossier of distress” that Knauf had gathered. We do not know whether the communications secretary brought his allegations directly to his boss or submitted them via Simon Case. What we do know is that the prince was astonished and horrified. He was instantly furious at what he heard.
“I remember Christian Jones [William’s press secretary and later private secretary] explaining to me how the Cams [the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge] are paternalistic with their staff,” recalls one royal correspondent. “They copy the Queen in that respect with all her Christmas parties and Christmas presents to her people. They’re proud to treat their staff like family. They recognise that they don’t get paid loads of money, so they are just really nice to them. So this was a very deep clash of philosophies, with Meghan being used to a Hollywood service culture — getting exactly what she wanted whenever she wanted in that famous way that Harry said.”
William personally knew and liked all the individuals whom Knauf had named in his dossier. The prince regarded them as assets to his household — colleagues to be cherished and for whom he was responsible. Human beings. Like Knauf, the prince was appalled that his respected staff may have been put in this position.
For William, Knauf’s allegations also clarified something that the prince had long believed — that Meghan was fundamentally hostile towards the royal system, which she failed to understand as an outsider. William wondered if she had not wanted to leave from the very start — even dreaming, perhaps, that she could whisk Harry back with her to North America.
But Meghan’s lawyers and PR representatives said this was quite the wrong interpretation of their client’s thinking and behaviour in a statement that they issued to The Times early in March 2021. They denied all allegations of bullying as inaccurate and the product of what they described as a “smear campaign”. The duchess wished to fit in and be accepted, they insisted. She had left her life in North America to commit herself to her new role.
I have never met Jason Knauf. What you have just read is based upon the published accusations that Knauf set down on paper — refuted as “defamatory”, it must be stressed again, and “based on misleading and harmful information” in the view of the Duchess of Sussex’s lawyers. It also relies upon William’s personal account of these events to one of his friends who then spoke to this author.
The moment the prince heard the bullying allegations, he related to this friend, he got straight on the phone to talk to Harry — and when Harry flared up in furious defence of his wife, the elder brother persisted. Harry shut off his phone angrily, so William went to speak to him personally. The prince was horrified by what he had just been told about Meghan’s alleged behaviour, and he wanted to hear what Harry had to say.
The showdown between the two siblings was fierce and bitter. William’s pre-engagement questioning of Meghan’s suitability had been quite reasonable, in William’s opinion. His fraternal doubts had been provisional, based upon how the new recruit appeared to be. The elder brother did not really know Meghan in those early days.
But now William had seen enough of his sister-in-law to feel sure that, sadly, he did know her and that many of his reservations linked unhappily with what Knauf’s colleagues had alleged. William believed Meghan was following a plan — “agenda” was the word he used to his friend — and the accusations he had just heard were alarming. Kate, he said, had been wary of her from the start.
Meghan was undermining some precious principles of the monarchy, if she really was treating her staff in this way, and William was upset that she seemed to be stealing his beloved brother away from him. Later courtiers would coin a hashtag — #freeHarry. It was only half a joke.
“Meghan portrayed herself as the victim,” recalled one Kensington Palace staffer, “but she was the bully. People felt run over by her. They didn’t know how to handle this woman. They thought she was a complete narcissist and sociopath — basically unhinged. Which was why the pair of them were drawn to each other in the first place — both damaged goods.”
William felt deeply wounded. “Hurt” and “betrayed” were the two feelings that he described to his friend. The elder brother had always felt so protective. He had seen it as his job to look out for Harry but this was the moment the protection had to stop. At the end of the day the British crown and all it stood for with its ancient traditions, styles and values — the mission of the monarchy — had to matter more to William than his brother did.
Harry, for his part, was equally furious that William should give credence to the accusations against Meghan, and he was fiercely combative in his wife’s defence. Some sources maintain that in the heat of the argument Harry actually accused someone in the family of concepts that were “racist”. But it must be stressed that neither brother has ever confirmed that the hateful r-word was used face to face.
Only William and Harry can know what they said to each other and they have respectfully maintained their silence on that. But Harry made clear to the world in his interview with Oprah that he considered his family’s response to Meghan to have been essentially racist — using the heavily freighted code words “unconscious bias” to provide an intellectual framework for his analysis.
Where could the two brothers go after such painful and damning notions had been thrown into their debate?
We have reached the crux of the drama. What painfully unforgettable and surely unforgivable things have been said? These are not passing differences. They are two core sets of values in conflict — love versus duty — going to the very heart and deriving from the deepest beliefs and loyalties of each man. Two opposing identities butting heads. In the months following the tragic and not-obviously bridgeable rift of October 2018 between William and Harry, the younger brother solidified his belief that his family were suffering from “unconscious bias”.
William, for his part, felt just as strongly about Meghan and the need for her subversive “agenda” to be removed from the operations of the British monarchy, which she did not appear to understand or respect. He certainly wanted Meghan removed, for a start, from the hitherto harmonious joint household that he and his brother had operated together for the best part of a decade. William simply did not want her or Harry around any more.
When accounts of the rift started seeping out through the winter months that followed, it was generally assumed that the volatile Harry must have set the pace in the splitting up of the joint Kensington Palace household. He was the brother who visibly departed, stalking off to set up a new home in Windsor, with offices for himself and Meghan in Buckingham Palace.
But the reverse was the case. It was William who made the decisive move. Following his furious confrontation with his younger brother in the autumn of 2018, the prince instructed Simon Case to start the process of dividing their two households immediately. William wished to be separated from Meghan on a day-to-day basis — and that meant being separated from his brother as well.
“William,” says a friend, “threw Harry out.”
©Robert Lacey 2021 Extracted from Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of a Family in Tumult by Robert Lacey, to be published by William Collins on June 24 at £9.99
So. Sorry. I tried to use the Spoiler box, but, could not get it to work.
Then, my time ran out
I apologize!!!
Tried to use the spoiler box, then time ran out.
Scorching…
Prince William ‘split his household from Prince Harry after Meghan bullying claims’
‘So, are you saying,” asked Oprah Winfrey, talking to Meghan and Harry in their famous interview of March 2021, “that there were hints of jealousy?”She was inqu
AP
Robert Lacey
Saturday June 19 2021, 12.01am BST, The Times
So, are you saying,” asked Oprah Winfrey, talking to Meghan and Harry in their famous interview of March 2021, “that there were hints of jealousy?”
She was inquiring about the Sussexes’s wildly successful tour of Australia and the South Pacific of late October 2018, and the couple shifted uncomfortably in their plush wicker chairs.
“Look,” replied Harry, “I just wish that we would all learn from the past.”
By bringing up “the past”, the prince was venturing into an area that was almost taboo. He was making a sensational comparison between his mother and his wife. Harry was suggesting that Meghan had demonstrated in Australia the same massive star quality as Diana and was now having to face the family envy that went along with that.
“It really changed,” he said, “after the Australia tour, after our South Pacific tour . . . it was . . . the first time that the family got to see how incredible she is at the job. And that brought back memories.”
Memories of what? Again Harry shied away from putting words to the almost unmentionable. But Oprah had prepared and polished this moment, like so many others in the interview, and she had a reference ready to prompt her prince’s revelation. The latest, fourth season of TV’s The Crown had depicted Charles and Diana’s 1983 tour of Australia, showing how Diana had been “bedazzling” in her ability “to connect with people”. Episode six had depicted how the crowds would groan when they realised that Charles, not Diana, was walking down their side of the street — hence the beginnings of the “jealousy” on the family’s part.
“So is that what you’re talking about?” asked Oprah. “It brought back memories of that?”
“Yeah,” Harry finally replied in a fashion that was both dismal and unmistakably aggressive.
What on earth had happened, viewers had to wonder, to the old and once-familiar happy side of Prince Harry?
When trying to define the moment that marked the decisive rift with his brother William — the break-up and actual separation of the joint household they had established together in 2009 — Harry would fix upon his triumphant return with Meghan from their Australian tour at the end of October 2018. But if asked the same question, William would have fixed on a more specific event: the explosive argument he had had with his brother earlier that month.
Both brothers agreed how bitterly they had clashed back in the early days over William’s attempt to slow Harry’s courtship of Meghan — “Don’t feel like you need to rush this . . . ” But both of them had subsequently moved on. Harry’s transparent contentment with Meghan had relaxed the tensions, give or take the odd row over bridesmaids’ dresses. The “no speaks” had eased just a little by the time “best man” William escorted his brother down the aisle in May 2018.
Then five months later came the conclusive and determining rupture — the division that has lasted to the present day — though here the brothers’ retelling of history diverged. As Harry explained it to Oprah, Meghan’s Australian tour success sowed the jealousies that caused feelings to “change”. According to this scenario, William and Kate resented the Diana-like popularity that was generated by Harry’s wife. William had a different recollection.
We now know that Princes William and Harry were no longer on speaking terms before the Sussexes set off for Australia. Feelings had already “changed”, as Harry put it, and drastically so. The brothers had parted on extremely poor terms, with the trouble centring on Meghan’s stringent treatment and alleged bullying of her staff.
Most Kensington Palace courtiers were noted for the comparatively long tenures of their comfortable and prestigious jobs. But it came to look as if employees could not wait to escape service with Harry and Meghan. Those who left formed themselves into an informal fraternity that they titled the “Sussex Survivors’ Club”. They had finally hit back, and their organising agent had been PR man Jason Knauf.
The joint communications secretary for Kensington Palace — who was still, at that date, working on behalf of both of the brothers and their wives — had become concerned by the numerous stories of mistreatment being brought to him by colleagues whom he knew well and trusted.
Texas-born and New Zealand-educated, Knauf, 34, was a popular character in Kensington Palace, widely noted for his friendliness and loyalty towards his colleagues. He had been considered a real “catch” when the brothers snared him from the Royal Bank of Scotland in 2015, and one of his concerns was that professional management practices should be more effectively enforced inside the traditional British palace. Knauf’s American sensibilities caused him to see the Meghan situation as raising principles of human resources management in the palace system that needed to be formally addressed.
Knauf’s first priority was to set down the facts, as he saw them, for the record: “I’m very concerned,” he emailed to William’s private secretary Simon Case, in a document he drafted in October 2018, “that the duchess was able to bully two PAs out of the household in the past year.”
Knauf described Meghan’s treatment of one aide as “totally unacceptable . . . the duchess seems intent”, he wrote, “on always having someone in her sights”. Specifying another staff member, Knauf alleged Meghan had been bullying her as well, “seeking to undermine her confidence”. His office had received “report after report”, he wrote, from people who had witnessed “unacceptable behaviour” by Meghan towards this member of staff.
“Meghan governed by fear,” claimed one courtier. “So many people said it. Nothing was ever good enough for her. [She] humiliated staff in meetings, [would] shout at them, [would] cut them off email chains — and then demand to know why they hadn’t done anything.”
As early as 2017, around the time of the couple’s engagement, according to a subsequent report in The Times, a senior aide had spoken to the couple about the difficulties caused by their treatment of staff. “It’s not my job to coddle people,” Meghan was said to have replied.
“Americans can be much more direct,” wrote the authors Omid Scobie and Carolyn Durand in defence of the duchess, “and that often doesn’t sit well in the much more refined institution of the monarchy.”
A Brit might have raised an eyebrow at Meghan’s alleged behaviour, then looked the other way. The Yank decided to act. Knauf was actually one of Meghan’s most senior advisers — her chief adviser, in fact, when it came to public relations. Earlier that year she had gone to Knauf for help when drafting the disputed letter of severance that she sent to her father. She valued his PR expertise.
Before that, Knauf had helped Harry to word the fierce anti-media statements that he had framed to try to protect Meghan from press harassment, both as his girlfriend and then as his fiancée. The PR man had taken considerable stick from some of his non-royal contacts who criticised him as being overprotective in fighting the newcomer’s corner. Like so many people in all the palaces, Knauf had started off on Meghan’s side.
But as the months went by the American’s feelings became more ambiguous, as numerous colleagues — women whom he greatly respected — continued to bring him stories of what they said they had suffered at Meghan’s hands.
“I can’t stop shaking,” one aide had told a colleague in anticipation of an encounter with Meghan. Another reported that the prospect of confrontation with the duchess had made her “feel sick”. “Emotional cruelty and manipulation”, were the words of a third, “which I guess could also be called bullying.”
The b-word featured prominently in the accounts of several, along with an even more sinister set of initials: PTSD. Post-traumatic stress disorder was a deeply serious condition to allege — flashbacks, nightmares and feelings of deep anxiety — but that was how one complainant said that they had felt.
Several people maintained they had been “humiliated” by the duchess, and that criticism extended to Harry as well.
“I overheard a conversation between Harry and one of his top aides,” recalled one Kensington Palace courtier. “Harry was screaming and screaming down the phone. Team Sussex was a really toxic environment. People shouting and screaming in each other’s faces.”
Shouting and screaming? PTSD? Making people feel sick? Prince William went ballistic when he heard the “dossier of distress” that Knauf had gathered. We do not know whether the communications secretary brought his allegations directly to his boss or submitted them via Simon Case. What we do know is that the prince was astonished and horrified. He was instantly furious at what he heard.
“I remember Christian Jones [William’s press secretary and later private secretary] explaining to me how the Cams [the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge] are paternalistic with their staff,” recalls one royal correspondent. “They copy the Queen in that respect with all her Christmas parties and Christmas presents to her people. They’re proud to treat their staff like family. They recognise that they don’t get paid loads of money, so they are just really nice to them. So this was a very deep clash of philosophies, with Meghan being used to a Hollywood service culture — getting exactly what she wanted whenever she wanted in that famous way that Harry said.”
William personally knew and liked all the individuals whom Knauf had named in his dossier. The prince regarded them as assets to his household — colleagues to be cherished and for whom he was responsible. Human beings. Like Knauf, the prince was appalled that his respected staff may have been put in this position.
For William, Knauf’s allegations also clarified something that the prince had long believed — that Meghan was fundamentally hostile towards the royal system, which she failed to understand as an outsider. William wondered if she had not wanted to leave from the very start — even dreaming, perhaps, that she could whisk Harry back with her to North America.
But Meghan’s lawyers and PR representatives said this was quite the wrong interpretation of their client’s thinking and behaviour in a statement that they issued to The Times early in March 2021. They denied all allegations of bullying as inaccurate and the product of what they described as a “smear campaign”. The duchess wished to fit in and be accepted, they insisted. She had left her life in North America to commit herself to her new role.
I have never met Jason Knauf. What you have just read is based upon the published accusations that Knauf set down on paper — refuted as “defamatory”, it must be stressed again, and “based on misleading and harmful information” in the view of the Duchess of Sussex’s lawyers. It also relies upon William’s personal account of these events to one of his friends who then spoke to this author.
The moment the prince heard the bullying allegations, he related to this friend, he got straight on the phone to talk to Harry — and when Harry flared up in furious defence of his wife, the elder brother persisted. Harry shut off his phone angrily, so William went to speak to him personally. The prince was horrified by what he had just been told about Meghan’s alleged behaviour, and he wanted to hear what Harry had to say.
The showdown between the two siblings was fierce and bitter. William’s pre-engagement questioning of Meghan’s suitability had been quite reasonable, in William’s opinion. His fraternal doubts had been provisional, based upon how the new recruit appeared to be. The elder brother did not really know Meghan in those early days.
But now William had seen enough of his sister-in-law to feel sure that, sadly, he did know her and that many of his reservations linked unhappily with what Knauf’s colleagues had alleged. William believed Meghan was following a plan — “agenda” was the word he used to his friend — and the accusations he had just heard were alarming. Kate, he said, had been wary of her from the start.
Meghan was undermining some precious principles of the monarchy, if she really was treating her staff in this way, and William was upset that she seemed to be stealing his beloved brother away from him. Later courtiers would coin a hashtag — #freeHarry. It was only half a joke.
“Meghan portrayed herself as the victim,” recalled one Kensington Palace staffer, “but she was the bully. People felt run over by her. They didn’t know how to handle this woman. They thought she was a complete narcissist and sociopath — basically unhinged. Which was why the pair of them were drawn to each other in the first place — both damaged goods.”
William felt deeply wounded. “Hurt” and “betrayed” were the two feelings that he described to his friend. The elder brother had always felt so protective. He had seen it as his job to look out for Harry but this was the moment the protection had to stop. At the end of the day the British crown and all it stood for with its ancient traditions, styles and values — the mission of the monarchy — had to matter more to William than his brother did.
Harry, for his part, was equally furious that William should give credence to the accusations against Meghan, and he was fiercely combative in his wife’s defence. Some sources maintain that in the heat of the argument Harry actually accused someone in the family of concepts that were “racist”. But it must be stressed that neither brother has ever confirmed that the hateful r-word was used face to face.
Only William and Harry can know what they said to each other and they have respectfully maintained their silence on that. But Harry made clear to the world in his interview with Oprah that he considered his family’s response to Meghan to have been essentially racist — using the heavily freighted code words “unconscious bias” to provide an intellectual framework for his analysis.
Where could the two brothers go after such painful and damning notions had been thrown into their debate?
We have reached the crux of the drama. What painfully unforgettable and surely unforgivable things have been said? These are not passing differences. They are two core sets of values in conflict — love versus duty — going to the very heart and deriving from the deepest beliefs and loyalties of each man. Two opposing identities butting heads. In the months following the tragic and not-obviously bridgeable rift of October 2018 between William and Harry, the younger brother solidified his belief that his family were suffering from “unconscious bias”.
William, for his part, felt just as strongly about Meghan and the need for her subversive “agenda” to be removed from the operations of the British monarchy, which she did not appear to understand or respect. He certainly wanted Meghan removed, for a start, from the hitherto harmonious joint household that he and his brother had operated together for the best part of a decade. William simply did not want her or Harry around any more.
When accounts of the rift started seeping out through the winter months that followed, it was generally assumed that the volatile Harry must have set the pace in the splitting up of the joint Kensington Palace household. He was the brother who visibly departed, stalking off to set up a new home in Windsor, with offices for himself and Meghan in Buckingham Palace.
But the reverse was the case. It was William who made the decisive move. Following his furious confrontation with his younger brother in the autumn of 2018, the prince instructed Simon Case to start the process of dividing their two households immediately. William wished to be separated from Meghan on a day-to-day basis — and that meant being separated from his brother as well.
“William,” says a friend, “threw Harry out.”
©Robert Lacey 2021 Extracted from Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of a Family in Tumult by Robert Lacey, to be published by William Collins on June 24 at £9.99
So. Sorry. I tried to use the Spoiler box, but, could not get it to work.
Then, my time ran out
I apologize!!!
Tried to use the spoiler box, then time ran out.
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Margo_Channing
VIP Member
Meghan Markle says The Bench shows 'another side of masculinity'
In a statement on the Archewell website, the Duchess said the poem 'began as a love letter to my husband and son'. It has topped The New York Times Bestseller list for children's picture books.
She really is full of her self isn't she?!
Cassandra333
VIP Member
Thanks to @freda19 for the title. Sorry but I had to cut some words out to make it fit.
Vague recollections of last thread.
We don't like Meghan
We don't like Harry.
Discussion on Lilibet as a name (might be the previous thread)
Discussion on whether Haz or Megz will attend Diana statue thing.
General belief that Megz wouldn't dare and we're not too sure if Haz will either.
We talked about Tarot
Some of us came out of the Broom Closet.
There was lots of wit and wisdom.
Can't think of anything else.
Last Thread:
Vague recollections of last thread.
We don't like Meghan
We don't like Harry.
Discussion on Lilibet as a name (might be the previous thread)
Discussion on whether Haz or Megz will attend Diana statue thing.
General belief that Megz wouldn't dare and we're not too sure if Haz will either.
We talked about Tarot
Some of us came out of the Broom Closet.
There was lots of wit and wisdom.
Can't think of anything else.
Last Thread:
Cassandra333
VIP Member
News headlines on July 2nd.
The Duchess of Sussex horrified to discover that the statue unveiled was not of her. 'It's racist' she claims.
Sycophant Scooby Doo reports that Harry had promised Duchess Meghan that the statue would be of her. He told her that the statue would show the commitment she made to the country and how beloved she was in the world. It was to be a meaningful work of art. Once unveiled, it was quite clear that it was a statue of a white blonde woman who looked nothing like the Duchess. Princess Meghan was particularly upset that commentators spoke of the high regard that Harry held this woman in.
It's totally racist, the Supreme Ruler Meghan said. They've made me look like a white blonde. Hiding my race and changing the color of my hair. They don't want a statue of a black woman in their garden. What they don't admit is, that without me, there wouldn't be a garden. It's just too much, how offensive are they going to get? Star of the Sea Meghan is said to be discussing the matter with her lawyers. Harry has yet to make a comment but it's reported that he is seeking solace with Pablo whilst he waits until all the pottery has been smashed. Fortunately the children are living with their nannies and are unaware of this monstrous denial of Leader of the Universe Meghan's rights.
#FreePablo.
The Duchess of Sussex horrified to discover that the statue unveiled was not of her. 'It's racist' she claims.
Sycophant Scooby Doo reports that Harry had promised Duchess Meghan that the statue would be of her. He told her that the statue would show the commitment she made to the country and how beloved she was in the world. It was to be a meaningful work of art. Once unveiled, it was quite clear that it was a statue of a white blonde woman who looked nothing like the Duchess. Princess Meghan was particularly upset that commentators spoke of the high regard that Harry held this woman in.
It's totally racist, the Supreme Ruler Meghan said. They've made me look like a white blonde. Hiding my race and changing the color of my hair. They don't want a statue of a black woman in their garden. What they don't admit is, that without me, there wouldn't be a garden. It's just too much, how offensive are they going to get? Star of the Sea Meghan is said to be discussing the matter with her lawyers. Harry has yet to make a comment but it's reported that he is seeking solace with Pablo whilst he waits until all the pottery has been smashed. Fortunately the children are living with their nannies and are unaware of this monstrous denial of Leader of the Universe Meghan's rights.
#FreePablo.
kev1974
VIP Member
Ha ha ha, as IF there is a "Royal Family Whatsapp Group", like they're all really the best of pals, or a work team! They must think we're stupid.
Even if there is such a group, Ginge and Cringe would obviously have been kicked out of it long ago. No way the rest of the family is going to continue sharing memes with those two disruptive muppets every day.
If there is a group with them in it, I bet there's a parallel group without them, set up alongside, in which the rest of the family share memes of the muppets antics and laugh at them without them knowing.