Gender discussions

[jewelkitty]

Sorry for double post but just want to add that 'women' is increasingly becoming a dirty word. Trans activists often want 'womxn' to replace it.
I have never seen them call for the word 'men' to be replaced with 'mxn.'

 

[Sarah-e]

Sorry for double post but just want to add that 'women' is increasingly becoming a dirty word. Trans activists often want 'womxn' to replace it.
I have never seen them call for the word 'men' to be replaced with 'mxn.'

I kind of feel woman are losing their own group identity because we have to be inclusive of the trans and non-binary community.

 

[jewelkitty]

I kind of feel woman are losing their own group identity because we have to be inclusive of the trans and non-binary community.

Yep, yet men still get to hold onto their group identity with a firm grip.
Notice how when somewhere introduces unisex toilets, it's nearly always the women's toilet that has to go. So you have a men's toilet and a gender-neutral toilet. So where are the toilets for women only? The group who are at most risk. Men do not need their own toilet.

 

[Sarah-e]

Yep, yet men still get to hold onto their group identity with a firm grip.
Notice how when somewhere introduces unisex toilets, it's nearly always the women's toilet that has to go. So you have a men's toilet and a gender-neutral toilet. So where are the toilets for women only? The group who are at most risk. Men do not need their own toilet.

I agree, I must say it might have to do with the fact most male toilets are urinals though so it might be easier to too make woman’s toilet unisex for that reason.
But yet again, do some rebuilding and make all toilets unisex or none at all.

 

[jewelkitty]

I agree, I must say it might have to do with the fact most male toilets are urinals though so it might be easier to too make woman’s toilet unisex for that reason.
But yet again, do some rebuilding and make all toilets unisex or none at all.

Yeah that's fair, it's still not good enough though.

Reminds me of when public toilets for women didn't exist which kept women trapped at home:

The History of Women's Public Toilets in Britain - Historic UK

In Victorian Britain, most public toilets were designed for men and there were very few women's toilets available. Therefore women could never travel far, only to family and friends. This restriction of women's movements is often referred to as the ‘urinary leash’...

www.historic-uk.com

A while ago at my work, the women's toilet broke so we had to just use the unisex toilet (there's a men's, a women's and a unisex toilet).
When the women's toilet finally got fixed the men wouldn't stop using it (as they became used to just having a men's and a unisex toilet) and all us women had to rally up, send out multiple emails saying that the toilet was for WOMEN ONLY. The men were leaving it in a disgusting state, pissing all over the seat and floor.
I'm grateful that my workplace isn't "ultra-woke" and didn't take offence to this (especially because women in my workplace are a very small minority as it is).

 

[4everb1tchin]

A group of people insisting their rights are being erased because another group is being allowed the same basic rights they have? This sounds awfully familiar. I can’t quite put my finger on it but as a black person it just seems really really really familiar....

 

[jewelkitty]

A group of people insisting their rights are being erased because another group is being allowed the same basic rights they have? This sounds awfully familiar. I can’t quite put my finger on it but as a black person it just seems really really really familiar....

How would you feel if white people started saying they "identify" as black, started doing blackface and invading your spaces?
Or another way of looking at it, that the words white and black became meaningless, or banned words, and language could not be used to differentiate you and your struggles from white people and their privilege?
And yet all of this was seen as white people finally getting the rights they deserve, or seen as brave, courageous, woke and progressive?

 

[4everb1tchin]

How would you feel if white people started saying they "identify" as black, started doing blackface and invading your spaces?
Or another way of looking at it, that the words white and black became meaningless, or banned words, and language could not be used to differentiate you and your struggles from white people and their privilege?

Are you talking about people who identify as transracial? As in adoptees who are raised by parents of a different race? I’m guessing you mean specifically white adoptees raised by black parents. I have no problem. If on the other hand you mean a white woman coming into black spaces pretending to be black then I don’t have to imagine. Its already happened, look up Rachel Denzel. Once again nobody is denying biological sex exists. The information given on this thread has not been any actual solid proof that Trans men and women want biological sex to be abolished. You have failed to show me proof of reforms implementing this so called ‘war on women’. You’re choosing to base your anger off a few statements made by fringe members of the trans community and the actions of a very minuscule minority who hide their predatory behaviour behind the guise of being trans. I find it incredibly insulting you’re trying to equate gender identity to race. Gender is something that can be shaped, especially culturally. Race, like biological sex, can’t. Once again I would love some solid evidence of doctors, scientists, politicians, anyone denying biological sex exists. I’m not going to pretend I know a lot about gender identity (non-binary is something I’m still trying to wrap my head around) and I personally don’t agree with diagnosing every child who happens to like something society deems of the opposite gender automatically trans however your scaremongering is pitiful.

 

[jewelkitty]

Are you talking about people who identify as transracial? As in adoptees who are raised by parents of a different race? I’m guessing you mean specifically white adoptees raised by black parents. I have no problem. If on the other hand you mean a white woman coming into black spaces pretending to be black then I don’t have to imagine. Its already happened, look up Rachel Denzel. Once again nobody is denying biological sex exists. The information given on this thread has not been any actual solid proof that Trans men and women want biological sex to be abolished. You have failed to show me proof of reforms implementing this so called ‘war on women’. You’re choosing to base your anger off a few statements made by fringe members of the trans community and the actions of a very minuscule minority who hide their predatory behaviour behind the guise of being trans. I find it incredibly insulting you’re trying to equate gender identity to race. Gender is something that can be shaped, especially culturally. Race, like biological sex, can’t. Once again I would love some solid evidence of doctors, scientists, politicians, anyone denying biological sex exists. I’m not going to pretend I know a lot about gender identity (non-binary is something I’m still trying to wrap my head around) and I personally don’t agree with diagnosing every child who happens to like something society deems of the opposite gender automatically trans however your scaremongering is pitiful.

Yes, Rachael Denzel is exactly what I mean, I've heard plenty about her. Not talking about adoptees or people of mixed race or anything like that. And I said imagine because she was not praised for it and she is not the norm. People did not worship her and call her a hero, she was condemned and obviously rightly so. But men dressing up as women and coming into women's space ARE celebrated for it.

And yes yes yes, people ARE denying biological sex exists!!! This has already come up on the JK Rowling thread. Please look it up. THIS is where the main issue stems from. It is now 'transphobic' to say that biological sex exists and that's why JK Rowling is getting so much abuse right now. You're going off this thread but it has kind of moved over to the JK Rowling thread now instead, there has been plenty discussion on this over there.

Ok so gender is a social construct. It's made up. Race is not a social construct. Sex is not a social construct. I am comparing race and sex, NOT race and gender.

 

[Globe]

What confuses me is the transwomen are women/transmen are men statement. Surely by making this statement you erase the fact that some people are trans and the associated struggles which will be different to struggles faced by people who aren't trans. I suppose that's what some people want but to me that's like saying "all lives matter".

 

[Barb]

Just popping this here for balance. There's a couple accounts and hashtags to investigate to see another side to this (ignore if you're comfy in your echo chamber though, not here to argue with anyone)
Edited to change pic, focus on the accounts and hashtags.

 

[jewelkitty]

Are you talking about people who identify as transracial? As in adoptees who are raised by parents of a different race? I’m guessing you mean specifically white adoptees raised by black parents. I have no problem. If on the other hand you mean a white woman coming into black spaces pretending to be black then I don’t have to imagine. Its already happened, look up Rachel Denzel. Once again nobody is denying biological sex exists. The information given on this thread has not been any actual solid proof that Trans men and women want biological sex to be abolished. You have failed to show me proof of reforms implementing this so called ‘war on women’. You’re choosing to base your anger off a few statements made by fringe members of the trans community and the actions of a very minuscule minority who hide their predatory behaviour behind the guise of being trans. I find it incredibly insulting you’re trying to equate gender identity to race. Gender is something that can be shaped, especially culturally. Race, like biological sex, can’t. Once again I would love some solid evidence of doctors, scientists, politicians, anyone denying biological sex exists. I’m not going to pretend I know a lot about gender identity (non-binary is something I’m still trying to wrap my head around) and I personally don’t agree with diagnosing every child who happens to like something society deems of the opposite gender automatically trans however your scaremongering is pitiful.

By the way, YOU are the one who decided to bring race into this. I then addressed this sex issue with the same lens, as that was the lens you were using. Don't try to bait and switch with me.

 

[Mycuppatea]

Just popping this here for balance. There's a couple accounts and hashtags to investigate to see another side to this (ignore if you're comfy in your echo chamber though, not here to argue with anyone)

Both of those conditions are considered to be intersex and most of us in the intersex community resent being used as a talking point in this way. We have our own struggles and issues and don't need to be co-opted into our existence being evidence in trans issues.

 

[Barb]

Both of those conditions are considered to be intersex and most of us in the intersex community resent being used as a talking point in this way. We have our own struggles and issues and don't need to be co-opted into our existence being evidence in trans issues.

It's part of a thread. I mentioned it was for the accounts and hashtags. Didn't mean to offend. I'll pick a new pic.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I have a real issue with the word "cis"- why are women now seen as a subcategory of their own gender?

Sorry for double post but just want to add that 'women' is increasingly becoming a dirty word. Trans activists often want 'womxn' to replace it.
I have never seen them call for the word 'men' to be replaced with 'mxn.'

Exactly. I'm sorry but this trans ideology is so damaging to women. It's basically men saying they can be better women than actual women. It's utterly misogynistic at it's core

 

[Globe]

I have a real issue with the word "cis"- why are women now seen as a subcategory of their own gender?

This bothers me too. It implies we conform to stereotypes in my opinion and I'm sure most of us couldn't care less for gender stereotypes.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

This bothers me too. It implies we conform to stereotypes in my opinion and I'm sure most of us couldn't care less for gender stereotypes.

Makes me think of this

 

[bubbletea123]

Makes me think of this

This is good! Yes I hate the term "cis" also.

 

[4everb1tchin]

Yes, Rachael Denzel is exactly what I mean, I've heard plenty about her. Not talking about adoptees or people of mixed race or anything like that. And I said imagine because she was not praised for it and she is not the norm. People did not worship her and call her a hero, she was condemned and obviously rightly so. But men dressing up as women and coming into women's space ARE celebrated for it.

And yes yes yes, people ARE denying biological sex exists!!! This has already come up on the JK Rowling thread. Please look it up. THIS is where the main issue stems from. It is now 'transphobic' to say that biological sex exists and that's why JK Rowling is getting so much abuse right now. You're going off this thread but it has kind of moved over to the JK Rowling thread now instead, there has been plenty discussion on this over there.

Ok so gender is a social construct. It's made up. Race is not a social construct. Sex is not a social construct. I am comparing race and sex, NOT race and gender.

So your issue is trans women who you deem not womanly enough taking over women’s spaces? So are you okay with trans women who have fully transitioned being in women’s spaces? Is it a penis issue? Are you going to deny intersex people who choose to aline with the female gender the right to be in women’s space then? Or is it a period issue? what about women going through menopause or suffering from pcos or women who’ve had their uterus removed? A testosterone issue? There’s biological females with high testosterone, are those women not womanly enough? Not ‘true’ women?


Trans women are psychologically women however biologically male. You can’t psychologically be another race, you can culturally feel more aligned with another race but you can’t change biology. Once again nobody (and I promise you nobody outside of the Twittersphere) is arguing that sex doesn’t exist.

The ‘abuse’ JK Rowling a very rich very privileged white woman faced was centred around the fact she used a time when most of the world is protesting systematic racism to stir up attention for herself

 

[Podcat]

Trans people already have rights. Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic in law, they have a right to medical treatment and to not be discriminated against for being trans.

WRT the erasure of biological sex the most pernicious thought is that although biolgocial differences may exist, they do not matter. That anyone can be a woman no matter their reproductive system. Feminists patently disagree with this.

A Lib Dem politician recently said that parliament could be said to be equal if it were 50% men and 50% trans women. No biological women at all. No women to discuss the realities of maternity policies, of maternal and female healthcare, of childcare funding. This is what the erasure of women looks like.

This SNP politician today said that trans women are "female". What use is the word female if it no longer means "the sex of any species that can produce ova that are fertilised by male sperm"?