Gender discussions

[Mselvista]

ContraPoints is a character played by Natalie Wynn. That may account for the patronising tone. Wynn has described ContraPoints as her drag queen persona.

 

[Zenchick101]

hey if anyone wants to look on twitter for a laugh I promise it's worth it.

 

[Halloumifries45]

I’m thankful the new act hasn’t come into play but the only problem I have now is that you can still be diagnosed with dysphoria yet not have any desire to take hormones or have the surgeries? I think that should be part of the diagnosis...

 

[Upsidefrown]

Perhaps I am being naive and someone can educate me - what is the issue with toilets and changing rooms?

 

[Mselvista]

Cis is absolutely not a “neutral, non-loaded term”. It’s not.

Go tell it to the Oxford English Dictionary.

 

[Mselvista]

I am not being obtuse. I am attempting to engage in good faith but I understand that you may not beleive that.

 

[Mselvista]

@Mselvista to be fair to @mindlessness you could ask her why she feels like that or try to understand a bit about her perspective. It’s great that you’ve linked resources but presumably on a thread like this one of the main resources is people speaking freely?

I linked to the video to show an alternative viewpoint. A few people had said they weren't familiar with the issues and were just learning. The discussion seems to be very skewed to the "gender critical" point of view.
Re asking @mindlessness why she felt that way, yes, I could have. But I didn't. @mindlessness Is still free to go into further detail if she wishes.

 

[Zenchick101]

A documentary by trans people about how trans are treated in the film and TV industry. I haven't seen it but saw a clip from it.

what's your take on it

 

[Vee6]

I don’t know his back story... what’s he all about?

 

[Mercedes12]

I don’t agree with their views largely. Mainly because I think they have put them across in a very petulant and immature way. Discussing “fragile femininity” and stating outright that
People should not have children is outrageous.

I believe most people (myself included) would support their child being trans. However, perhaps as parents they/we would wish said child (and other family members) to undergo therapy and explore all avenues (could this be a coping mechanisms for something else? Like abuse? Sexual orientation confusion? Bullying? Etc)
Those issues need to be explored and addressed fully before punting kids on hormonal blockers. Why is anyone debating this? I’m NOT saying kids cannot be trans or should suffer, absolutely not. But gender dysphoria diagnosis needs to rule out other things first to ensure they are truly ready to start blockers or indeed hormonal transition. 🤷🏻‍

Let me say this for folk in the back... THAT IS NOT TRANSPHOBIA.

That is PARENTING.




Ah thank you for posting some examples of the type of person society (trans and bio) should be wary and fearful of... predators!

Sadly, a lot of people (indeed on this thread) refer to you/us as. TERF or transphobic for referencing a “small number of cases” and would like us to not highlight these beasts as it casts the trans community in bad light.

let me be clear that some
Of those people (Jessica Yaniv) ARE NOT TRANS. He is a predator beast with an obsession in underage girls and tampons.

We need the wider trans community to be calling these fuckers out big time. And making it clear they they do NOT rep trans people.

I truly believe most folk don’t have an issue with trans people at all. It’s this rush to bring in hasty legislation to bow to woke af culture that people fear. Why? Because that legislation allows these types of animals to abuse it, align themselves with trans and access vulnerable members of society for criminal gain.

If you believe this is an acceptable level of collateral damage for the greater good then have a f*cking word with yourself.

Neither me or the other poster said we would give hormones to a child - that isn’t even legal or possible to do in this country. Talking therapies and assessments would be part of treating any gender dysphoria before even thinking about any treatment (which would begin once they are older and is a very lengthy, difficult process on the nhs).

We were simply saying if a person cannot accept a child who is genuinely trans or feel like they couldn’t be “on board” with it/find it odd then we think that’s really sad.

 

[Hepaticus]

Hepaticus, you have not countered a single one of my points. You ignore everything you can’t counter, and the only point you have unsuccessfully attempted to counter, basically involves continually screeching that male pattern criminality is so rare as to be irrelevant, which is patently untrue.

Violence and sex crimes in ordinary men is a significant enough problem that all women take daily precautions to avoid it, and women are legally protected from men by sex segregated spaces. According to Lisak and Miller 2002, 6% of men are rapists. This is NOT a tiny percentage. And this doesn’t include minor sex offences and violent crime (although these 6% were also likely to commit violence). My point (well this particular point, you’ve ignored the rest) is that as transwomen as a population retain male pattern criminality, they are just as dangerous as men.

Therefore treating them exactly the same as women puts women at risk. We need protecting from them.

I’m not sure why you think that the fact that female-to-males additionally develop male pattern criminality, takes anything away from the fact that all bio-makes are dangerous.

Incidentally, about 1% of transgender people commit suicide. This is significantly less than the 6% of bio males who are rapists.

I focus on victims of sex crimes and violence which are overwhelmingly WOMEN, not coddling the feelings of mentally ill bio-males. Do you really think that pretending these males are harmless females will solve their extensive mental health problems?

I don’t care about misgendering, it’s sailed past you, but I was drawing attention your hypocrisy by highlighting your gender assumptions.

Eek, no I think what I did sailed past you..,

How do you feel we, as women, are currently protected from men?

1% suicide rate. Oh god, we wish!

 

[Felix08]

I havent read the whole threat so Im sorry if I am saying things that dont go here.
I never understood why people dislike or hate transpeople. A collegue of mine recently starting to transition. Before I knew him as 'her' but now its him. I liked him before and the person hasnt changed, he just looks different. And his whole attitude is different, I know see a confident and happy man who can be who he wants to be. So should I start disliking him now I know him by a different name?

Its sad that peple took years to get the courage to become who they really are but with that might come even more risk of sexual abuse or even murder.

Now ill step back and will read this threat, my apologies!

 

[Vee6]

Yeah fair enough about Radcliffe and the other guy. I was just noticing yesterday that it seemed to be women reacting strongly one way or the other. And men (Not of the TRA variety) like my partner who are not in the slightest bit interested.

 

[kat.becs]

My head has just fallen off.

I thought it was all about biology.

That biology trumps everything.

That you favoured the description "biological woman" over cis woman.

Yeah, I've gotta admit that has thrown me a little too. Not wanting to be reduced to biology is fine but the phrase 'people who menstruate' doesn't do that at all. Surely it does the opposite? The people insisting when 'people' is used (cough, JK, cough) that the word is 'women' is surely reducing women down to their biology? At least more than the word 'people' does.

Idk. I thought maybe I misunderstood her comment there.

 

[bubbletea123]

You just know that those kicking off haven’t even bothered to read her statement. Anyone who has read it couldn’t possibly say she is a hateful transphobe. I shouldn’t be but I’m shocked at the vitriol she is getting. People are acting like she called for all trans people to be put in the stocks or something.

Controversial but if she has said something racist, I doubt she would have got this much backlash. She would have got some given the current social climate, but not on this scale. The reaction of some people is totally ridiculous literally throwing the baby out with the bath water based on assumptions of what they think she wrote not what she actually wrote.

The people trying to make this a race issue by calling her a white privileged woman are irritating too. This isn’t a race issue this is a WOMENS issue and that includes all women from all cultures and backgrounds. To have such a powerful and well known woman fighting our corner is absolutely huge. She doesn’t need our support but we certainly appreciate hers.

Also fuck body shop. They’re never getting my money again.

What did The Body Shop do?

 

[Sarah-e]

Good on you for taking the stand to voice an “unpopular opinion” I put that in quotations because I truly believe the average U.K. person would be on your wavelength and not the social media SJW side. They seem to think their online echo chamber is reflective of society. Sadly, this is not true. And perhaps instead of bullying anyone who dissents from their rhetoric they could actually deal with, ya know, *real issues* in real life.

Hold your head high; you’ll get loads of comments probably “calling you out” Try not let it get to you. If it gets personal or strays into doxxing then report the content/account.

Thank you

 

[SqualorVictoria]

is that an option?

Yeah if you click on the story, on the send message part there's three dots, click on that and there's an option to report. Worth a shot. Not sure if there's another more detailed way of contacting them

 

[Mselvista]

Some interesting stats about the disadvantages caused by periods:

• One in 10 girls in Africa will miss school when they have their periods
• In Rwanda, many girls miss up to 50 days of school or work every year because of period poverty and stigma
• A study in Ethiopia found that 50% of girls miss between one and four days of school per month due to menstruation.3 The impact of girls losing out on secondary education is huge: if all women had a secondary education, child deaths would be cut in half, saving 3 million lives
• Chhaupadi is an ancient period shaming practice carried out in parts of western Nepal....Girls are banished from their homes during their periods and forced to live alone in isolated huts
• In India, it has been estimated that as many as 1 in 5 girls drop out of school after they get their periods — and in some regions, like Maharashtra, that number is nearer to 4 in 5.
• Nearly half of the 1,000 teenage girls questioned across the UK said that period povertyprevented them from doing well at school.
  A third believed it held them back from achieving their ambitions and goals and five per cent said that they missed one week per term due to being on their period.
• Of the 52 per cent of girls who said they miss school due to their period, nearly one in 10 said it was a direct result of being unable to afford or access sanitary products while 14 per cent claimed they did not feel able to talk to staff at their school, causing them to stay home.

Ending period poverty and stigma is just one of many easy ways to end the systematic disadvantage and abuse of woman globally.
Pretending this isn't a woman's issue does the women suffering from this injustice.
With stats like the above I don't see how it is possible to label this as anything other than a woman's issue.

So campaign to help those affected in Africa and Asia.

But, no, making life more difficult for trans people, women especially, is more important to some uk feminists atm.

 

[Mselvista]

Well you pointed out "I'm a woman" so I was simply apologising for any confusion. Again, it was you who felt the need to bring it up and clarify it

I'm not confused so no need to apologise.

I mentioned that I'm a woman because you said "people like [me] are silencing women".
So women are silencing women?
Now I *am* confused.

Sorry you didn't find the resources good enough

I have not said anything about the quality of the resources linked.
If someone asked me about my views on a current news story and I gave them all of that day's papers and said there you are, would you think I was expressing my views clearly or would you think I was wasting your time? I doubt you would think I was being
I have been told gc feminism is not transphobic. I disagree. If you wish to show me that I am wrong it may be helpful to your argument to give me the name of a gc activist who you agree with or who has influenced your thinking.

 

[kat.becs]

And in regards to periods; I think there are definitely women hung up on that. If there wasn’t, why would people have an issue with saying ‘people who menstruate’ in some contexts? That phrase is only really ever used in contexts that need/allow for it but when it is used, there’s usually some kind of negative response to it.