What does instances mean? Actual fact or something else
Not ever at the expense of women
If it also true that people there for offences against children are more likely to be targeted by the general population. They are keep separate
- Status
New to Tattle Life? Click "Order Thread by Most Liked Posts" button below to get an idea of what the site is about:
Not ever at the expense of women
If it also true that people there for offences against children are more likely to be targeted by the general population. They are keep separate
Apologies, I don't have time to link things right now, I will come back later. I do remember reading a while ago, it was US based data not sure if that matters, that of the transgender women housed in mens prison (I think the figure was) 59% had been subjected to sexual assault, versus 5% of non transgender in mates (in the mens prison). As I said, I haven't had the time to link to this at the moment so figures may be off!
if you have a link or anything that'd be nice. What about them having a seperate wing? no threat to them, no threat to women = win-win
This always boils down to men can't behave, so "put them [transwomen] in with the weaker ones". Women do not exist to provide a buffer against men for other men.
i tend to think people care more about validation, since the seperate wings idea always gets rejected. If safety is the most important thing wouldnt you want that to be taken care of first ? even if the current proposed solution isn't 100% what you wanted
You're absolutely right. They'd happily, gratefully take a third space if safety was the issue. It's not, is it? It's 100% validation.
I'd like the numbers @mcfeez has to offer, but it's highly sus to not take the third space first (focus on safety), then focus on validation.
Thanks for the recommendation. I hadn't heard of Jesse Singal but I remember reading Katie Herzog's article about detransitioning and thinking that it was well-written and balanced. I can absolutely understand that detransitioning is a sensitive topic, especially when so many people want to deny the rights and/or existence of trans people, but I don't think that it should be off limits for discussion.
Of course, but the solution is not to put female prisoners at risk by putting transwomen in with them.
This needs to be taken seriously but yet again the argument is about transwomen and how women prisoners should be put at risk in order to protect them. Women are not responsible for male violence, men are and given that the majority of the judiciary and legal system are men I think that they should be dealing with it.
Sorry, what I meant to say was that the debate here is far more civilised than any other places I've seen. It was early this morning so I wasn't fully awake. Yes maybe it sometimes can get heated but people feel strongly about this. However, it's still far more balanced than most places.
This is where I am tbh. The Keira Bell case made me investigate more about things like mermaids. I don't want to take away treatment from trans people - my feeling is that I don't want people to mistakenly go through transitioning. So whatever we can do to best support one and avoid the other is what needs to be figured out. I also don't like how some of the messaging is that if you're a girl and like footy and shorts then you're a boy and visa versa. I think that just teaches regressive gender stereotypes that I would have hoped we were beyond.No. Which is a shame because I really did come on here looking for a discussion. There don't seem to be many places to discuss viewpoints that fall anywhere between 'trans women are men who want to threaten our identity and hurt us' and 'if you're even the slightest bit gender non-conforming you should get on hormones straight away' and the polarisation doesn't help anyone (hey, it's almost as though binary viewpoints are bad news). I guess I'm going to have to finally sign up for a bloody Reddit account so I can join r/truscum, as though I don't already waste enough time on the internet.
I think these are complex topics and it is difficult to try and work out how to do right by everyone. I think shouting 'TRA/gender ideologist' at people for using words like cis or 'TERF' for anyone who has any kind of qualm isn't helpful. It just forces people into their own echo chambers where they only hear things that reinforce their original view.
I haven't put any of my thoughts on Keira Bell or Mermaids on Facebook because it'd cause social disaster with certain friend groups of mine - the ones currently boycotting lush. I have spoken to it with a couple of friends, but only privately. Things oughtn't be that way because free, polite, thought out discussion is how you explain your point and change minds - not name-calling or friend blocking.
i'm also betting trans men aren't lining up to go to prison with men either..
Absolutely agree with all that you've said here.
My thoughts on the Keira Bell case is that she was used by people who have an anti-trans agenda. She made some very unfortunate mistakes but some of them were as an adult, like the mastectomy she had at age 20. I think that blockers are a very useful way to allow young people more time to make more permanent decisions and that more research should be done into them so that they can be used safely by both trans children and cis children who are experiencing precocious puberty.
No offense, but that sounds like such a conspiracy theory. Knowing society's massive approval of ALL things trans and the backlash one gets if you publicly voice concerns and an opposing opinion (JKR). Why would she a black, not privileged woman in any way (JKR), expose herself like this to potential backlash and abuse from rabid trans supporters, just to be a puppet for others?
You think blockers "are a useful way to allow young people more time to make more permanent decisions"? right now before more research has been done on blockers that are not completely reversible? Young people, you mean children? why shouldn't children be allowed to do drugs, smoke weed, drink? I mean if we're letting kids take expiremental drugs.
Also "she made some mistakes, and some as an adult" means that some of these mistakes were when she was a minor. System failed her when she was a minor - not her fault.
Wait a second. Its a bit weird to say she made the decision to have a mastectomy at 20 as an adult (and presumably you think fully autonomously?) but was then also ‘used by people who have an anti-trans agenda‘ during the case? She has put herself at the centre of a fraught and frenzied debate, not something I could imaging doing unless you truly believed in what you were going to the High Court for.
I am not sure if you have come across this Newsnight report from the middle of the year, but it is worth a read, especially to see the lack of care and harm that is being caused to young LGB children who are take to Tavistock for ‘gender affirming’ treatment. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51806962
See you may very well have read this and will be coming back any moment with the figures, but the problem is if you don't, you've created a situation where people reading this thread will think 'oh yeah, I read somewhere that 59% of transwomen are assaulted in prison' when it's based off you also saying 'I do remember reading...'
It's a load of supposition. We shouldn't be posting any stats without links. Ok, we do it all the time - it's not specifically having a go at you. But it creates memories of stats that may or may not be true.
It wouldn't surprise me if that was the figure, but that doesn't mean TW should be placed in women's prisons instead - that's just making women at risk instead of the TW.
It reminds me of the whole 'don't teach your girls to be afraid of going outside, teach your boys not to grape'. And the whole population rears up and goes 'but of course my boy wouldn't grape'. It's a systemic problem.
Again, of course we can't teach men to be safe overnight but let's face it, that's the real issue. Men as a sex class (so that includes TW) are dangerous.
Puberty blockers
Research and history of the use of puberty blockers in the UK, Keira Bell's case at the High Court and the Cass Review.
www.transgendertrend.com
What evidence do you have that shows Kiera Bell was ‘used’. Who in that court room had an ‘anti trans agenda’? Have you even read the transcripts? The evidence from the other side was flimsy at best and actually helped Kiera’s case in some instances. It’s incredibly patronising of you to suggest Kiera was ‘used’ rather than her being able to think for herself and feel so strongly on this that she’s willing to put herself in the firing line for abuse and go to the high court. Detrans people like Kiera get constantly ignored and brushed aside in this debate, good for her for putting her neck on the line and forcing people to take note.
Theres no evidence that puberty blockers are reversible, the NHS very recently updated their guidelines on this. The notion that these off label cancer treating drugs buy these kids more time and are fully reversible is a lie that has been peddled by the likes of mermaids.
Puberty is such a vital part of human development, literally the transition from child to adult where your brain and body goes through so many changes. I’m shocked that so many people seem to think it’s fine to pause or even prevent it altogether.
Last edited:
The lack of empathy shown towards Keira Bell in some circles is astounding- this is someone who was let down by the system she was depending on. She might have won but she will have to live with the changes made to her body for the rest of her life.
- Status