It has been said time and time again, drawing attention to the male behaviour and strength of biological males is not "cherry picking" or implying that transwomen should be feared. That is NOT the point. The point is that they are no more safe than any other male, and need to be treated as such. Males are not "feared", but our sex-segrated safe spaces such as prisons, shelters and toilets give us protection from them as it's acknowledged that they statistically commit most violent and sex crimes. Transwoman statistically exhibit male pattern criminality, ie sex crimes and violence. In terms of public safety, they are no different from men.
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Trans women are men lol. Theres no getting around it. Screaming bigotry doesn't change reality.
What is your opinion of the fact that only 20% of men prisoners are inside for sex offences, while 48% of transwomen prisoners are inside for sex offences? Are transwomen nearly 2.5 times more likely to be perverts, or is this increase due to bog standard cis men dressing up as women in an attempt to gain access to women's prisons? Either way it's terrible for transwomen.
I agree, it is a good Twitter thread (from the OP, a lot of the replies say things that I don't agree with). Most of the TERFs I have encountered don't seem to agree with point number one but it's nice to know that there are some who do.
I do wonder if trans people would exist if we somehow ever reached a truly post-gender society. Maybe there would still be people who experienced dysphoria purely based on their bodies and not on the gendered expectations that came with them.
Has anyone been on Tinder lately? If not I suggest that you do and put that you are a women looking for women. You will then see lots of men who are obviously now self identifying as women wearing really bad wigs and badly applied make up looking like what they are, men in very bad drag. It’s so disturbing, I feel so disgusted that the trans community has been infiltrated by these misogynistic men who feel entitled to women and their bodies and will even pretend to be ones in order to gain access to gay women.
I guess I can see where there's a hint of that but I still think that's a pretty big stretch. Also the idea that trans women are not men is debatable. If going by the idea that sex and gender are seperate and they identify more with the gender role of women in society, then you could either state that they are gnc males or women in the context of their place/roles in society. In any other context? where biology comes into play? no.
If you look at that article from a neuroscientific pov kudos to her that was explained really well. I'd also like to add that the use of pronouns and the approval vs disapproval you get if you use them or not seems like a form of cognitive reinforcement learning (ex. when you train a pet they then automatically know sit = cookie, the cookie being the positive reinforcement for said good behaviour).
The thing is, these males are genuine transwomen like any other. In the past they would have been called transvestites and their dressing up would be confined to home (and maybe public meet ups, for the braver ones). Now the trans umbrella has widened to include cross dressers and “transvestite” is no longer a word that gets used. That’s opened the floodgates for straight males with AGP to head to les dating apps and no one can complain for fear of being called transphobic. Must be like all their Christmases have come at once (bet they don’t get any dates though).
But some men have "identified as women" in order to harm women - or at the very least have exploited the opportunity to harm women that comes from being treated as a woman - ie sex offenders who become trans and assault women prisoners when moved into a female only prison facility, or the individual from Fife who took the opportunity of being in a women's loo to attack little girls. I don't think anyone is saying all trans people are rapists because that is obviously not true, but it is equally not true that no trans people exploit their status to harm women. I think there are some people who genuinely feel deep unhappiness about their bodies and biological sex and just seek relief, but the aggression and militancy that many of us note and encounter in recent years seems to be coming from a very different motivation.
Yes I did see that on the celeb gossip thread and it’s partly why I brought it up (as well as the JM stuff). As you said, it’s a gossip thread fgs. Some posters should really check themselves and their posting history before they start coming down on others. Worse things are said that get a pass on this site (which is why I like it, too much moderation ruins a forum imo).I read that with an open mind thinking there was going to be a really good analogy behind it but apart from the initial provocativeness of seeing the word, I don’t really understand the link between the two even though I 100% agree with not using pronouns.
I’m a bit of both, because I found it really annoying when the celeb gossip thread (was that the one you mean?) turned into the royals thread because it’s not something I want to read about and was glad when people told them to go away to the royals thread so it would be hypocritical on my part if I didn’t feel the same if a topic unrelated took over the same thread but one I had an interest in. But that poster saying “please don’t deadname him, it’s very disrespectful”on the celeb GOSSIP thread? And the same poster frequents the JM thread where she gets called worse things on a daily basis!? GTFO! There were a lot of people agreeing with the GC comments even if they didn’t want to enter the topic of conversation themselves, going by the positive reactions
Ummmmm
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Exactly, the stonewall definition of trans is this:
"
TRANS
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois."
So call me bigoted or prejudiced but they are not women.
And what's happening to lesbians is awful- lesbians being gaslighted and called bigots for not wanting to touch someone's fool.
A while ago I posted a story about a trans person who said that "genital attracted individuals" are bigots
One rarely sees it the other way around, I.e FTM calling gay men bigots for not wanting to sleep with someone with a tina but it happens a lot to lesbians. Now, I wonder why that could be?
It is increasingly happening. There was a pretty active Facebook group dedicated to posting examples, then it got banned under the TOS, I don't know if it resurfaced anywhere else. And it seems there's a fair number of FTM on gay dating apps - Scruff changed its policy under pressure so it's now for anyone who "identifies" as a man or as "queer", regardless of whether or not they're an actual gay/bi man. But, yes, gay men in general don't put up with it the way women are expected to - same as how you don't often see MTFs pressuring straight men to sleep with them the way they do lesbians
I thought that most of the links posted on here were from American sites, but this is shocking.
I’ve seen it a couple of times but most gay men give no ducks about trying to be nice and will explicitly say they only like fool and that trans men are female. And they’re generally allowed to get away with saying this without being called evil terf witches bleeps like lesbians are. TRAs seem to only really care about controlling women.
Gay men are allowed to be “transphobic” on reddit while all the les subreddits for females only and gender critical subreddits were banned for promoting hate speech. I do love seeing gay men tell their truth and call out the homophobia of TRAs but the double standard is depressing.
Ive attached some screenshots of a thread like this on a gay subreddit, there are many more like it. Link here:
Also hi I’m new to this thread, I’m usually on Twitter but great to see so many likeminded on Tattle too.
Attachments
I like how they point out that the whole "if you won't sleep with me you're a transphobe!" is both homophobic and biphobic. I really can't stand it when people cling to a "gay" identity that so blatantly isn't theirs. Yes, some of them are genuinely just confused but the Erika Moens and Amanda Jette Knoxes of the world, or that guy who drew the infamous comic about "I'm a GOLD STAR gay man, my boyfriends just happen to be trans" or the woman in that awful "I'm the fool-sucking-est les in the world!" viral video are not
I know from first hand that these concerns are 100% true (not that anything is being done, mind).
Your screenshot: interesting. I don’t know if that’s the History Channel official account (logo looks similar) but Caitlyn Jenner has repeatedly said it is BRUCE Jenner who won the Decathlon, NOT CJ. I remember CJ even saying it on I’m a Celebrity when they were on it. So in actual fact, whoever decided to write and update that is deadnaming Bruce and his achievements, denying CJ’s request own request to respecting their historic achievement.
EDIT: Adding onto this and in regards to your previous comment above screenshot, I did my usual read through of the OP in the latest JM thread and by chance saw through various links that my comment had made it onto there having been copied and pasted and dissected! I would respond on there but don’t want to derail from the topic at hand. But all that “we never said anything about JM being trans”, well! Maybe the gas from all Jack’s lighting has seeped into those threads and they can’t remember what has previously been written on there...
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There’s a Bill here in Victoria under discussion that ostensibly wants to ban conversion therapy. Which is obviously a good thing right? Well, maybe, buts it’s a very broadly written Bill. LGB alliance is in agreement with the Australian Christian Lobby (not the normal state of affairs!) that the Bill is overreaching.
https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...-practice-of-gay-or-gender-conversion-therapy Guardian article covers things generally, and outlines why in theory it’s a really good Bill protecting kids. I would argue not protecting kids from trans agendas though...
www.theage.com.au
https://frayingthenet.com/2020/12/0...ohibition-bill-2020-vic-summary-and-analysis/ legal analysis of Bill
I feel so stuck. I hate that trans issues have become so dominant in discussions around protecting and supporting LGB people.
edited to add this tweet I just saw
https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...-practice-of-gay-or-gender-conversion-therapy Guardian article covers things generally, and outlines why in theory it’s a really good Bill protecting kids. I would argue not protecting kids from trans agendas though...
Gay conversion legislation puts Andrews on a collision course with churches
The proposed new law is the biggest threat to religious freedom in years according to a number of faith groups who face potential prison terms if they cause harm to LGBTI people.
https://frayingthenet.com/2020/12/0...ohibition-bill-2020-vic-summary-and-analysis/ legal analysis of Bill
I feel so stuck. I hate that trans issues have become so dominant in discussions around protecting and supporting LGB people.
edited to add this tweet I just saw
Not a fan of Caitlyn or any of the Kardashians but fair play to him for acknowledging his time as Bruce, most seem to want to pretend they never even transitioned in the first place.
I have a feeling the JM thread is not a thread I want to get involved in...
The JM thread is funny and horrifying (horrifying only because of JM’s antics). You know how Jameela Jamil twists and gaslights? That’s what JM does but think of it as cranked up by 100%. It’s a very interesting spectacle in how the mind of someone not all there and loose with the truth plays out in real time. But the piss has been taken out of her on those threads for “that time she said she was non binary” (that was my mistake in my previous comment, it was NB, not trans) and when she changed her name from Ms. Monroe to Mx. Monroe and this photo shoot and interview:
So why it’s “so disrespectful” to “deadname” EP but not JM, especially when JMs phase of it lasted longer than EPs has so far is somewhat of a head scratcher and like I said, trying to lay claims that this was never a part of why the piss is taken out of JM is a downright lie like JM is frequently (rightly) accused of doing. And I don’t care, because she does deserve the piss to be taken for her because it’s one of the many bandwagons she jumped on in both feet, but as a les who went NB and changed pronouns to they/them just like EP, why is EP’s (shorter) change considered valid and respected but JM’s not?
So why it’s “so disrespectful” to “deadname” EP but not JM, especially when JMs phase of it lasted longer than EPs has so far is somewhat of a head scratcher and like I said, trying to lay claims that this was never a part of why the piss is taken out of JM is a downright lie like JM is frequently (rightly) accused of doing. And I don’t care, because she does deserve the piss to be taken for her because it’s one of the many bandwagons she jumped on in both feet, but as a les who went NB and changed pronouns to they/them just like EP, why is EP’s (shorter) change considered valid and respected but JM’s not?
Use of Jack's former name is discouraged in the JM threads though? And people don't tend to directly question whether Jack is non binary, probably for the same reason that her claims of having done sex work, being a victim of domestic violence and grape, being an alcoholic etc etc aren't thoroughly examined - these issues are so sensitive that subjecting claims to scrutiny feels wrong. Timelines and other things on the periphery of the issues are sometimes discussed. With the photo you've posted above a lot of people have rightly pointed out that it does massively reinforce a gender binary.
@Lava Was thinking about your prejudice and bigotry comment from yesterday and I have some genuine questions:
Do you believe that women and teenage girls should be allowed the right to have pen free spaces?
Should we tell young girls to not bother with instinct or ignore feeling uncomfortable if there's an obvious male because that's just bigotry or prejudice?
If an 80 year old woman feels uncomfortable with an obvious male in a private space does that make her a prejudiced bigot?
Do you believe that women and teenage girls should be allowed the right to have pen free spaces?
Should we tell young girls to not bother with instinct or ignore feeling uncomfortable if there's an obvious male because that's just bigotry or prejudice?
If an 80 year old woman feels uncomfortable with an obvious male in a private space does that make her a prejudiced bigot?
Maybe if said issues were throughly examined we could put aside the transvestites, agp males and other fetishists, trenders, who say they're trans without being dysphoric?
Or even if we called out people who say they're alcoholics etc, but have proof that they might not be, then we'd focus our attention on the people that actually need support and not the ones simply craving attention?
just a thought.
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