I absolutely don't agree with every single thing he says, but in this case he explains the clear logical holes in this ideology regarding E. Page's coming out. Thought it was worth a share.
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That is definitely the end goal for some of them.
Not sure why that matters? All that means is you're not used to seeing trans women on screen. Which is fine but it doesn't make it unbelievable that a trans woman could be someone's assistant?!
Honestly all this focus on appearance is really counterproductive IMO - if we accept that children shouldn't be pressured to transition because they are gender non-conforming we shouldn't make fun of adults who don't "look" male or female enough
This is just factually wrong on the legal side of it anyway. Children do not have full bodily autonomy. I might have said this before but for example - children cannot refuse life-sustaining medical treatment. Children also can consent to treatment, but if they do not, their parents can consent on their behalf instead and this will allow treatment to be given.
The ideas that underpin all this are that children are less autonomous than adults, and their autonomy is on a scale. So the closer the child is to the age of 18, the more weight that ought to be given to their views - but this is still not determinative. This is obviously a flawed reasoning in some ways because it doesn't make a lot of sense that at midnight on someone's 18th birthday they suddenly unlock 'full' autonomy. But the idea of letting children consent to treatment is because it is in their best interests and this helps them build their decision-making skills and therefore build up their autonomy over time.
Anyone interested might have watched The Children Act film or read the book. This is based on a real case called Re E. A religious child who refused a blood transfusion under 18, and his parents also refused (Jehovah's). Court allowed it to be administered. His leukaemia came back once he turned 18, he refused blood, and died.
It is very well known that children do not have full bodily autonomy when it comes to medical decision-making. It is a stupid argument to say it's either or. This has already been debated for decades.
I often myself agreeing with Ben Shapiro on things like this... and then he says something about abortion and I’m like what was I thinking!? Way too right wing for my taste as I consider myself on the left. But on this issue I do think he’s right because it’s just biological facts and common sense.I'm internally struggling with the idea that I agree with Shapiro on something... He is awful. Really making me question if I am just being an intolerant mole with the trans stuff but only the right seem to make any sense on this
We can agree with some people and not endorse every single other view they have. I find the 'right wing' figures speak the most sense on this subject, I still vehemently disagree with some other things they say though.
And I also think that some 'left wing' figures use this as a weapon- "oh you agree with x person, did you know that they also have xyz beliefs". Just divisive nonsense
And I also think that some 'left wing' figures use this as a weapon- "oh you agree with x person, did you know that they also have xyz beliefs". Just divisive nonsense
Soooooo.... I have an upcoming assessment thing (can’t triangulate too much!) but to gain full marks, not just some, I have to use my pronouns when I introduce myself. If I don’t, I’ve just met ‘some competency’. I’ve just emailed someone and said I feel really uncomfortable doing this and don’t feel that I should be penalised marks wise for not wanting to. I said I don’t feel comfortable stating my sex any more than my sexuality or religion and shouldn’t be forced to. No reply yet but how can they deduct marks because I won’t use pronouns? Imagine if they made you state your sexual orientation! I’m quite upset. I said I can see why it’s been encouraged (I don’t agree with it!) and of course with the person I was talking to I would check how they like to be referred to but I don’t want to and shouldn’t be made to. Where is my choice about it?
I don't know if this is for your work or your education or something...but I would refer this policy to HR immediately, it doesn't sound lawful to grade you based on whether you will give out personal information.
Agreed, it’s absolutely ridiculous to ask you to include it as part of your assessment criteria! I would be upset too.
Isn't sex protected by GDPR? And also gender ideology covered by personal beliefs?
I'm sure of course, because you've said you don't want to share your 'sex' it will be a battle now. Whereas if a nonbinary/trans person had said - as I keep seeing on social media - 'it's ok not to share pronouns if you're still figuring it out or don't know them yet blah blah blah' they would back down immediately. Do keep us updated with the response @holliebollie
@judgejohndeed It’s a uni course for a certain role... I don’t know if it’s the uni alone who decides on the mark scheme for each assessment or it goes beyond them to the service. I will have to check but I’m just really shocked at it. I said we are more likely to encounter a client (sort of) with autism than be transgender/NB but we haven’t been asked to state if we are autistic or not after our names. I know it’s about normalising but how many people are actually NB? Is it all for the people who like to use they? Or is it for trans people who don’t ‘present’ with the sex they have now chosen? I don’t know. Either way I just don’t feel comfortable but know I’ll look like a TERF for even bringing it up 
Sorry to go on... I am respectful of how people choose to be addressed and I have no problem with asking what their preferred pronouns are but how can I be penalised for not saying mine? It surely can’t be a fair mark scheme.
Sorry to go on... I am respectful of how people choose to be addressed and I have no problem with asking what their preferred pronouns are but how can I be penalised for not saying mine? It surely can’t be a fair mark scheme.
I would have thought just saying your first name is enough to demonstrate that you know how to introduce yourself. Obviously you don’t want to triangulate yourself so don’t say exactly what it is, but i imagine as you are having to introduce yourself it is a service based introduction or a language oral assessment - or similar...either way, how on earth is omitting to clarify your pronouns considered worthy of losing assessment marks. I would consider who you can speak to about this.@judgejohndeed It’s a uni course for a certain role... I don’t know if it’s the uni alone who decides on the mark scheme for each assessment or it goes beyond them to the service. I will have to check but I’m just really shocked at it. I said we are more likely to encounter a client (sort of) with autism than be transgender/NB but we haven’t been asked to state if we are autistic or not after our names. I know it’s about normalising but how many people are actually NB? Is it all for the people who like to use they? Or is it for trans people who don’t ‘present’ with the sex they have now chosen? I don’t know. Either way I just don’t feel comfortable but know I’ll look like a TERF for even bringing it up
Sorry to go on... I am respectful of how people choose to be addressed and I have no problem with asking what their preferred pronouns are but how can I be penalised for not saying mine? It surely can’t be a fair mark scheme.
ETA: Also, in society you don’t have to introduce yourself to anyone by listing all your hidden conditions or even visible conditions, so why must you state your sex/pronouns etc? I personally like how more people with hidden disabilities are able to voluntarily wear those green sunflower lanyards so people are more understanding, but the key thing here is those who feel the requirement to do that, do it, and it is voluntary.
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If you mean you've applied for something like a nursing degree and this is part of the assessment - fighting back on this would probably take a lot longer because the requirements have likely been set by the relevant regulatory body (GMC, NMC, HCPC, etc etc). Depends how much you want to get onto the course. There's nothing to stop you from complying and then carrying on a complaint afterwards, it might be that the complaint goes to the regulatory body. I know you don't want to give too many details so sorry if I've missed the mark here, I'm not sure if you mean you've applied to uni or you're on a course already and it's part of the assessment. In the latter I'd say you're safer because you're already in.@judgejohndeed It’s a uni course for a certain role... I don’t know if it’s the uni alone who decides on the mark scheme for each assessment or it goes beyond them to the service. I will have to check but I’m just really shocked at it. I said we are more likely to encounter a client (sort of) with autism than be transgender/NB but we haven’t been asked to state if we are autistic or not after our names. I know it’s about normalising but how many people are actually NB? Is it all for the people who like to use they? Or is it for trans people who don’t ‘present’ with the sex they have now chosen? I don’t know. Either way I just don’t feel comfortable but know I’ll look like a TERF for even bringing it up
Sorry to go on... I am respectful of how people choose to be addressed and I have no problem with asking what their preferred pronouns are but how can I be penalised for not saying mine? It surely can’t be a fair mark scheme.
I agree though, I don't think as a healthcare professional you should be required to give out your personal info to patients even to make them feel comfortable. The duty surely extends to asking how they want to be addressed (if at all) and leaving it at that. This is not a two way street, you are providing the care. It only matters that they are not uncomfortable by how you address them, not that you tell them about yourself.
fair point, one case where their appearance matters and trans identity would be if they're playing a biological woman in a movie. That'd
i mean.. you could make up some bs about how you don't enjoy pronouns? play their own game? you know?@judgejohndeed It’s a uni course for a certain role... I don’t know if it’s the uni alone who decides on the mark scheme for each assessment or it goes beyond them to the service. I will have to check but I’m just really shocked at it. I said we are more likely to encounter a client (sort of) with autism than be transgender/NB but we haven’t been asked to state if we are autistic or not after our names. I know it’s about normalising but how many people are actually NB? Is it all for the people who like to use they? Or is it for trans people who don’t ‘present’ with the sex they have now chosen? I don’t know. Either way I just don’t feel comfortable but know I’ll look like a TERF for even bringing it up
Sorry to go on... I am respectful of how people choose to be addressed and I have no problem with asking what their preferred pronouns are but how can I be penalised for not saying mine? It surely can’t be a fair mark scheme.
Either way, it's crazy and just another example of how this ideology is infecting everything. And unis in particular seem to be pretty woke.
Well it didn’t matter really. And I didn’t say it was unbelievable that a transwoman could be a secretary. I guess it’s simply indicative of women losing out on acting roles because a series will score points for casting a trans woman.
Sorry, I don’t get the point you’re making here. Children shouldn’t be pressured to transition and most trans women don’t pass. Two facts. No one was taking the piss.
That is bleeping OUTRAGEOUS. I am so, so angry on your behalf. I’m sorry, I can’t really offer any advice because I’ve never faced that situation and have no idea what to say, but I was speechless reading what you wrote. Unbelievable.@judgejohndeed It’s a uni course for a certain role... I don’t know if it’s the uni alone who decides on the mark scheme for each assessment or it goes beyond them to the service. I will have to check but I’m just really shocked at it. I said we are more likely to encounter a client (sort of) with autism than be transgender/NB but we haven’t been asked to state if we are autistic or not after our names. I know it’s about normalising but how many people are actually NB? Is it all for the people who like to use they? Or is it for trans people who don’t ‘present’ with the sex they have now chosen? I don’t know. Either way I just don’t feel comfortable but know I’ll look like a TERF for even bringing it up
Sorry to go on... I am respectful of how people choose to be addressed and I have no problem with asking what their preferred pronouns are but how can I be penalised for not saying mine? It surely can’t be a fair mark scheme.
I’ve just had a reply. They said that it’s not obligatory and you won’t be marked down if you don’t give them. Not sure why it’s on the full marks box then.... but I feel much better now. I’ve actually just done some reading into the argument against using pronouns or even asking people their preferred and it’s very interesting. Cases similar to what you just said @judgejohndeed where people actually don’t KNOW what to use! Can be upsetting to be asked if you’re still figuring things out. Also noted was being asked what to use could make someone who is trans feel like they haven’t ‘passed’ for the sex they’re transitioning to. I’ll look into this a bit more.
I’m already on the course and it’s working with young people, some of whom may be trans or NB. Well, the same rate as the general public so not as many as you’d think if you went on Twitter for 5 minutes. As I said, there will be more people with a disability and we aren’t being encouraged to talk about our own after our names (well, some people on Twitter are... Jack!!
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I’m already on the course and it’s working with young people, some of whom may be trans or NB. Well, the same rate as the general public so not as many as you’d think if you went on Twitter for 5 minutes. As I said, there will be more people with a disability and we aren’t being encouraged to talk about our own after our names (well, some people on Twitter are... Jack!!
)If it's working with young people surely it's especially sensitive...they might not have worked it out, they might feel they're being 'outed' if they are trans/NB, they might feel like they 'look' trans if they're not trans but are being asked...honestly, shouldn't it be left to them to tell you when/if they want to? When they sign up for the service, aren't they asked on a form these days about gender rather than sex (as everything seems to be now). I wish they would stop forcing this on kids, it seems like it has more potential to harm than to help!I’ve just had a reply. They said that it’s not obligatory and you won’t be marked down if you don’t give them. Not sure why it’s on the full marks box then.... but I feel much better now. I’ve actually just done some reading into the argument against using pronouns or even asking people their preferred and it’s very interesting. Cases similar to what you just said @judgejohndeed where people actually don’t KNOW what to use! Can be upsetting to be asked if you’re still figuring things out. Also noted was being asked what to use could make someone who is trans feel like they haven’t ‘passed’ for the sex they’re transitioning to. I’ll look into this a bit more.
I’m already on the course and it’s working with young people, some of whom may be trans or NB. Well, the same rate as the general public so not as many as you’d think if you went on Twitter for 5 minutes. As I said, there will be more people with a disability and we aren’t being encouraged to talk about our own after our names (well, some people on Twitter are... Jack!!
Also very misleading they've included this requirement in the marking scheme if it's not compulsory. If I were you I'd be asking for an updated mark scheme so that you cannot be marked down later anyway.
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