Gender Discussions #2

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Its a really tricky one. I was genuinely torn at the last election. I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water and I fear that is what is happening. Other posters have made the same or similar points, I know. I fundamentally believe in the social and economic principals of left wing politics, however I am acutely aware of the painful gender policies which are railroading things at the moment and are in direct conflict with my core beliefs. The right’s policy making seems to be more aligned with with my gender politics to a point (but scratch the surface and it isn’t really though their policy making remaining “conservative with a small ‘c’” means that it appears to be) but their economic, foreign and social policies are pretty much in direct odds with everything I believe in.

There isn’t a party that effectively represents me. There isn’t a good quality political alternative for GC women (or men). I know there are a few parties tinkering at the edges but they are too small and single issue to be viable, sadly.
True it's really complicated.. However I do believe in "the devil you know". I remember how this started and how progressively they asked for more and more and also changed their narrative over time, so it's scary to not know what else they're planning. Whereas with the right I think there might not be that unknown factor as much.

I actually am starting to like Piers more and more.
He doesn't take crap from them and calls them out on their stupidity. Unfortunately since no one cares what we have to say we're gonna need men on our side.
 
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True it's really complicated.. However I do believe in "the devil you know". I remember how this started and how progressively they asked for more and more and also changed their narrative over time, so it's scary to not know what else they're planning. Whereas with the right I think there might not be that unknown factor as much.
A friend of mine who was fairly liberal now admits she is right and she says the change happened after having a baby - she is in the USA and actually works for the US government, her boss is someone high up. She has worked there since the Obama years. Some of the stuff she supports, I do not agree with but for the most part we agree on topics.
 
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Depends whether the film is bold enough to refer to “women” rather than “people who menstruate”, “pregnant people” and “people who have miscarriages”.
It’s incredibly women-centric! In fact, I think it’s a beautiful mini-film!
 
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Re politics. I think the real issue is no-one agrees with any one part on all the issues, yet the narrative is that you're either left or right, Democrat or Republican, Labour or Conservative etc (at least in two major party democracies). People now treat it like sports teams - supporting your side even if they play badly/mess up (see: Republicans supporting Trump in 2016 just because they hated Hilary more, and at least he was a R etc). Not to mention, any divergence from the primary narrative is disloyal or treachery - so me being GC means a lot of left-wingers who I would agree with on human rights, social welfare etc still see me as the enemy.

Bah. I hate it all.
 
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Everything is so tribal. I’ve voted Labour all my life and considered myself left wing but I question what I belong to now. I value some progressive ideas, but also some (smaller c) conservative. Never in a million years would I have thought I’d question it.

What’s even more painful is that it seems to be more of a vicious “all or nothing” stance from the left, and it’s impossible because even they (like Lisa Nandy did in the Piers Morgan interview above) repeatedly tie themselves up in knots as disadvantaged identity groups are pitted against each other. In the last year alone, there’s been so much fence sitting on the following:-

Transgender vs women’s rights
Religious belief rights vs sexuality rights taught in schools
Brexit
Asian grooming gangs vs white working class girls

The reason being, you cannot criticise or point out problems with any “protected status” identity group as it leads to a loss of power and support. Except maybe age. Because old people are nearly dead and tend to have entrenched views.
 
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Everything is so tribal. I’ve voted Labour all my life and considered myself left wing but I question what I belong to now. I value some progressive ideas, but also some (smaller c) conservative. Never in a million years would I have thought I’d question it.

What’s even more painful is that it seems to be more of a vicious “all or nothing” stance from the left, and it’s impossible because even they (like Lisa Nandy did in the Piers Morgan interview above) repeatedly tie themselves up in knots as disadvantaged identity groups are pitted against each other. In the last year alone, there’s been so much fence sitting on the following:-

Transgender vs women’s rights
Religious belief rights vs sexuality rights taught in schools
Brexit
Asian grooming gangs vs white working class girls

The reason being, you cannot criticise or point out problems with any “protected status” identity group as it leads to a loss of power and support. Except maybe age. Because old people are nearly dead and tend to have entrenched views.
Nuance is a dead idea in modern politics and it is dangerous.
 
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I’ve always voted labour and consider myself left wing. I have had a Twitter account for a couple of years but rarely went on. Had no idea what was going on with TRAs at all until JKs essay and then spending more time on twitter. Feeling very confused now
 
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Everything is so tribal. I’ve voted Labour all my life and considered myself left wing but I question what I belong to now. I value some progressive ideas, but also some (smaller c) conservative. Never in a million years would I have thought I’d question it.

What’s even more painful is that it seems to be more of a vicious “all or nothing” stance from the left, and it’s impossible because even they (like Lisa Nandy did in the Piers Morgan interview above) repeatedly tie themselves up in knots as disadvantaged identity groups are pitted against each other. In the last year alone, there’s been so much fence sitting on the following:-

Transgender vs women’s rights
Religious belief rights vs sexuality rights taught in schools
Brexit
Asian grooming gangs vs white working class girls

The reason being, you cannot criticise or point out problems with any “protected status” identity group as it leads to a loss of power and support. Except maybe age. Because old people are nearly dead and tend to have entrenched views.
completely agree what's put me off is this "do or die" "submit" mentality. I hate bullies and bullying tactics trying to force people into complete agreement of their POV. I hate it and that's the main reason why I'm so put off right now and giving c views a second look. (here we have right then extreme right for example)
 
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completely agree what's put me off is this "do or die" "submit" mentality. I hate bullies and bullying tactics trying to force people into complete agreement of their POV. I hate it and that's the main reason why I'm so put off right now and giving c views a second look. (here we have right then extreme right for example)
It’s cancel culture the politics way! My way or the highway.
 
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It’s interesting to me. I’m left of centre and married to a man who sits right of right of centre, politically. We pretty much agree what the country should look like but we don’t agree on how we should achieve it. Most likely down to the fact that he grew up in a comfortable MC family and then studied economics under a Thatcherite gvt. I grew up in a Northern WC family in an area which was heavily adversely affected in the Thatcher Years and studied Sociology as a mature student under a Blairite gvt. These things definitely shaped our individual outlooks and it’s easy to see why.


We’ve been married a long time and have held our respective political views since before we got together. Occasionally I am told by others (often on fora, admittedly but also in RL), “Oh, I couldn’t be married to/shag a Tory”, like I’m betraying the cause or he’s some kind of monster. I don’t think he’s EVER been told that it’s immoral to have a relationship with a commie. There is a definite sense of insecurity in some parts of the left and it seeps out in little moments like that.

Sorry, I know I’ve strayed OT.

Sorry, the point of that ramble was to reinforce this CANCEL! idea that you can only mix with those who have the same beliefs as you. The idea that I can be happily married to someone who thinks differently to me is so abhorrent to some people. No. We have these things called ‘discussions’ when we disagree or come across a topic that we have questions about. Crazy, I know.
 
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It’s interesting to me. I’m left of centre and married to a man who sits right of right of centre, politically. We pretty much agree what the country should look like but we don’t agree on how we should achieve it. Most likely down to the fact that he grew up in a comfortable MC family and then studied economics under a Thatcherite gvt. I grew up in a Northern WC family in an area which was heavily adversely affected in the Thatcher Years and studied Sociology as a mature student under a Blairite gvt. These things definitely shaped our individual outlooks and it’s easy to see why.
I grew up in Barnsley (still here!) and so I totally get the Northern issues with Thatcherism etc - my husband is from the same town and both our families are stuffed full of ex-miners/steel workers but both of us are clear right of centre however our families are certainly not especially my dad who is a staunch Labourite in fact we call him Ned Stark because, well ‘The North Remembers’
 
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Please read this everyone!
oof I couldn't read all that it was too upsetting. This is really worrying.

any organization who seeks to reduce the influence/control parents have on their children is suspect. Also the fact that playing with dolls as a boy = trans. God if I was born 10 years later I would probably have fallen for this.

the whole "don't tell your parents/make a new e-mail address to get in contact with us" is weird
 
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