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barmj

Chatty Member
I don't know, it's a personal preference. Anyone can sleep with who they want and anyone can refuse to sleep with someone for any reason. I wouldn't want to be involved with a bi man due to my own insecurities, not biphobia
Sure, no one can and should not force you to sleep with someone you don’t want but you got to acknowledge that you are being prejudiced in your thinking. Insecure because being bi automatically means they will cheat on you? 🧐

I’m bi and I’m extremely loyal and monogamist (if that’s a word). I had a lesbian girlfriend who cheated on me but I don’t label all lesbians as cheaters.
 

barmj

Chatty Member


I already apologised for derailing the thread and making it about me. Like I said in my last post, I didn’t know what MSM actually meant, I thought it was another form of MLM but clearly I was wrong. I was trying to follow your direction of thinking when you said you wouldn’t consent to sleeping with a bi man (which sounded like you could be attracted to a bloke but changed your mind after finding out he was attracted to men too). Obviously I went in the opposite direction, I didn’t know then, and that’s why I thought you were being ridiculous because like, a MAN? is attracted to MEN? How awful! Again, I apologise for assuming, and for derailing.

To go back on topic, if it’s ok for me to comment on this —

Guess what else people can’t help? Their appearance, health, intelligence, personality, financial status. Literally everything that influences attraction can’t be helped. No one owes you anything, and nothing needs to change.
I agree. But you (general you) have said it’s mental/delusional to want to remove your penis and what not. The body that trans women have gives them dysphoria, that’s why they want to change their appearance and have surgery, etc. That’s why some of them look like they are being stereotypical with how they think women dress, because they’ve had male socialisation, but they’re genuinely trying to say “I’m not trying to be a man” even if they do a piss poor job of it. So what should biological men do? Grown, adult men. Do they have surgery or not?? It’s delusion if you want to chop it off but it seems to be the bare minimum if you want to use women only space. Which one is it??

Also, I don’t know if this is directed at me —
no one owes you a justification for why they aren’t attracted to you/men like you;
but I’m female :p
 

Pundertaker

Chatty Member
Nobody asks this of people with other protected characteristics, either. We never see disabled people saying 'let's let everyone identify as being disabled if they want to!' and when some very strange people have claimed to identify as a different race, it's shut down immediately. What is different about being female? I see no qualitative difference whatsoever. But for some reason, all bets are off when it comes to women. Where's our protection?

I feel very strongly about all of this and I fear this is going to result in the biggest fight of our generation. For that reason, I was looking into studying an MSt in Women's Studies at Oxford. I went onto the webpage today and see the name of the course is now 'Women, Gender, and Sexuality Studies.' We're not even allowed this course anymore. It's absolutely dire.
Women's studies has always included gender studies whether it is specified or not; it's part of gender theory (I studied it). Women's Studies has also evolved as feminism has progressed. Degree titles in sociological areas change all the time because the field is so dynamic; it's not about an agenda.

If you're looking for 1970s Germaine Greer feminism in one of these degrees, you'll be sorely disappointed. But a degree in this field will absolutely answer the questions you're posing here (with all due respect, it will show you how much you're barking up the wrong tree).
 

bottie1000

Active member
By the way, I forgot to post this earlier in answer to another comment but Munroe Bergdorf is extremely toxic and has a long history of abusive behaviour
I wasn't aware of that! I watched her channel 4 documentary a few years back about her facial feminisation surgery and she genuinely seemed like she had GD, so I was very sympathetic. Such a shame she seems to be no better than the rest.
 

melfish

VIP Member
The “lecture” you refer to was specifically an answer to your query, paraphrased: “why is my sexual partner’s sexual history my business?”.

Accusing people who disagree with you of being dogmatic and not thinking fluidly makes your tone sound pretty aggressive, and so does you proclaiming that you don’t care about this issue, which is besides the point. The point is that women who do care are being deceived, browbeaten and bullied into sex and relationships that they don’t consent to.
I accused no one of anything. I merely made an observation that there is dogma on both sides of this debate. I can't help it if you chose to interpret that as a personal attack. You moved the goal posts and then attacked me for a position I never took. No one was talking about rape
 

barmj

Chatty Member
MSM are not necessarily Bi or gay. That is why the term MSM is used. It is not about orientation or inclination, sometimes it is out of necessity. There are men who have sex with men for financial reasons, social/cultural reasons, because of circumstances like being in prison or other all male environments, just to experiment or while under the influence of a substance. I have a friend whose boyfriend was in prison for a decade - while he was there he had sex with men despite being straight and he told her, she didn't care and it works for them.

I think it is wrong for you to decide that a man who has sex with men is bi. That's not your place. It is the opposite of "bi erasure".
oh that’s what MSM means? yeah, I wasn’t trying to assume that all MSM are gay/bi but OP mentioned about choosing not to sleep with bi men, so that’s what I was going with. but I understand now about the MSM thing. I know they’re not necessarily bi or gay. I still stand by my point that you should be tested/screened regardless of your sexuality and sexual history, and use protection! when someone asks me to get tested, I do it, not a problem. OP reckons I’d scream biphobia if that happened to me or other bi people but that’s not true. it’s your responsibility to take care of your body and take precautions, if your potential sexual partners won’t give you the same courtesy then don’t sleep with them. or take the risk, some people do that even though it’s daft and goes against common sense.
 

melfish

VIP Member
Well, yeah, honesty is important in any relationship. I wouldn't expect to have that conversation with a one-night stand though. I've never quizzed someone about their sexual history, but no one's ever deliberately hid theirs from me either (that I know of)
 

Shaza96

New member
Trans women don’t need access to women’s services because they aren’t women. The fuck does an mtf need to see a gynaecologist for? Why should they be placed in women’s domestic violence refuges with vulnerable women who may find the presence of a biological Male triggering because of trauma they have suffered at the hands of other biological males?

No, they don’t need access to women’s services. Trans people need to campaign for their own services and spaces, much like women have. No body gave rape crisis and women’s aid to us, women fought for those things. Women and trans women have different needs and life experiences. They do not mix in settings where women are at their most vulnerable.

And kids going on blockers is absolutely nothing to be so blase about. There is zero evidence to say these blockers are fully reversible or what the long term effects of these off label cancer drugs are, despite the the likes of Mermaids and Stonewall claiming otherwise. The nhs recently changed its guidance on blockers and removed any mention of them being reversible. Anyone who thinks stunting such a vital part of human physical and mental development is normal or healthy and should be supported is delusional quite frankly. It’s a scandal waiting to be uncovered.

A trans women is a women, thats why they are called women.

However, i would also not say that their rights sre more important than anyone else's, as in i think eveyone should have equal rights. So yes, if someone is going to find their presence uncomfortable at a women's rescue shelter, then another solution should be found. But why should they be turned away for a service they also need? Because I don't believe a trans women is going to turn up at a gynecologist or a domestic shelter unless they actually need that service. Why would they want to make their own lives harder knowing the backlash they'd face for it? (There will of course always be a minority who exploit services, for now, I'm not talking about them).

I agree, trans women having their own services is a good idea if it makes people feel more comfortable. But i disagree with the notion that they should be the ones to fight for it just because we had to fight for women's rights on our own. We should help everyone we can get equal rights and opportunities.

I also definitely do not think giving children blockers is anything to be blaise about. I've already covered my opinion on trans children and their treatment and support so I'll not repeat it.


I would also just like to point out that just because I disagree with J.K.Rowling and the way she has going about things and used her platform, does not mean that I don't think a discussion needs to be had surrounding all of this. Because it most definitely does.