Gender Discussion #94

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Hi everyone, I've read this thread on and off for a while and I wonder if this might be a good place to ask for advice. This is long so I'll pop it behind a spoiler.

I have a relative who was trans. She recently detransitioned and is finding a lot of difficulty, gate keeping and opposition for her decision.

For context, she was born a girl and grew up in a household where domestic abuse and sexual abuse was the norm. She struggled with her mental health, depression has always been there. She struggled with her identity as a teenager in terms of going through phases (goth, emo, preppy and so on). As a young adult, she came out as trans and was disowned by her family. She lived abroad for a time and recieved testosterone via the insurance based health service. When she returned to Scotland, she was seen at a gender clinic. The Dr (now retired in Spain) at the clinic did not look into my relative's mental health or history of sexual abuse. She was not assessed by a psychologist either which I find shocking. She now feels that as a naive, young adult, traumatised and confused, she was steered towards transitioning, including being asked leading questions. After a few sessions at the clinic, she had a full mastectomy and hysterectomy in her early 20s (on the NHS) and had been on testosterone for the last 16 years or so.
Last year she was able access support via a mental health nurse and this lead to her realisation regarding her trans identity.
She now feels she became trans as a defence mechanism to cope with the trauma from being abused by men. I think she is right.
She is devastated because now of course, she cannot have children and is struggling with facial hair and a non feminine appearance.
She had to fight to get permission to stop taking testosterone and has only recently been allowed to start taking HRT. She will not recieve help from the NHS for reconstructive surgery. She does not have the funds to fund this privately and this is affecting her mental health.
She has reached out to charities such as Stonewall and Women For Scotland and they don't want to know, stating its not their area.
She is looking to take some sort of legal action against the clinic as she feels and certainly the evidence suggests, that she was pushed into a decision when she didn't have full mental capacity. She has been left feeling let down, rejected and that the trans movement is very much a cult. I'm starting to think that way myself. I supported her for years, for the sake of her mental health and against my own instincts. Since witnessing how establishments are shutting down discourse and access to help for detransitioners, I'm convinced it is a cult now. Detransitioners seem to have pariah status, there is not a great deal of information on the Internet about it even.

Does anyone here have any insights into how my relative can either access affordable or ideally free legal advice? She either needs financial compensation to fund breast reconstruction or somehow convince the NHS to do it for free. That's her biggest issue right now. Thankfully she did not have bottom surgery during the trans years. She is funding regular electrolysis herself. She is heartbroken that she has been robbed of her ability to have children. I've wondered if it's even possible to contact JK Rowling about this but I doubt she reads her own mail. It's just very frustrating because we don't know where to look or who to ask. It's obviously quite a niche and complex situation but my relative deserves help and support. It's utterly galling that men play acting as women will be humoured but a bio woman's issues will be swept under the carpet.
I'd be grateful for any help or advice. I'm feeling especially let down by Women for Scotland and increasingly worried for my relative's mental health.
She seems to have a cause of action against the NHS. This might help

Edit to add
 
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Hi everyone, I've read this thread on and off for a while and I wonder if this might be a good place to ask for advice. This is long so I'll pop it behind a spoiler.

I have a relative who was trans. She recently detransitioned and is finding a lot of difficulty, gate keeping and opposition for her decision.

For context, she was born a girl and grew up in a household where domestic abuse and sexual abuse was the norm. She struggled with her mental health, depression has always been there. She struggled with her identity as a teenager in terms of going through phases (goth, emo, preppy and so on). As a young adult, she came out as trans and was disowned by her family. She lived abroad for a time and recieved testosterone via the insurance based health service. When she returned to Scotland, she was seen at a gender clinic. The Dr (now retired in Spain) at the clinic did not look into my relative's mental health or history of sexual abuse. She was not assessed by a psychologist either which I find shocking. She now feels that as a naive, young adult, traumatised and confused, she was steered towards transitioning, including being asked leading questions. After a few sessions at the clinic, she had a full mastectomy and hysterectomy in her early 20s (on the NHS) and had been on testosterone for the last 16 years or so.
Last year she was able access support via a mental health nurse and this lead to her realisation regarding her trans identity.
She now feels she became trans as a defence mechanism to cope with the trauma from being abused by men. I think she is right.
She is devastated because now of course, she cannot have children and is struggling with facial hair and a non feminine appearance.
She had to fight to get permission to stop taking testosterone and has only recently been allowed to start taking HRT. She will not recieve help from the NHS for reconstructive surgery. She does not have the funds to fund this privately and this is affecting her mental health.
She has reached out to charities such as Stonewall and Women For Scotland and they don't want to know, stating its not their area.
She is looking to take some sort of legal action against the clinic as she feels and certainly the evidence suggests, that she was pushed into a decision when she didn't have full mental capacity. She has been left feeling let down, rejected and that the trans movement is very much a cult. I'm starting to think that way myself. I supported her for years, for the sake of her mental health and against my own instincts. Since witnessing how establishments are shutting down discourse and access to help for detransitioners, I'm convinced it is a cult now. Detransitioners seem to have pariah status, there is not a great deal of information on the Internet about it even.

Does anyone here have any insights into how my relative can either access affordable or ideally free legal advice? She either needs financial compensation to fund breast reconstruction or somehow convince the NHS to do it for free. That's her biggest issue right now. Thankfully she did not have bottom surgery during the trans years. She is funding regular electrolysis herself. She is heartbroken that she has been robbed of her ability to have children. I've wondered if it's even possible to contact JK Rowling about this but I doubt she reads her own mail. It's just very frustrating because we don't know where to look or who to ask. It's obviously quite a niche and complex situation but my relative deserves help and support. It's utterly galling that men play acting as women will be humoured but a bio woman's issues will be swept under the carpet.
I'd be grateful for any help or advice. I'm feeling especially let down by Women for Scotland and increasingly worried for my relative's mental health.
Sadly her story is a common one. I honestly believe that there will be an avalanche of lawsuits and more support in the future. I know this doesn't help your friend right now, but maybe it will give her hope to know she's not the only one affected and things will change.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to Reddit on here, but if you or she searches for "detrans" and "actual detrans" then you'll find many others going through the same. Although the people on there are world-wide (so what's available will differ from the UK) she may find comfort from being in a community where others have experienced the same.

Andrew Gold on YouTube has interviewed several detransitioners.

The NHS is starting to think of detransitioners (and we know how slowly this will happen :rolleyes:
https://archive.ph/yGprk

If she's in England, this appears to be genuine.
8gjngj18czue1.jpeg


This is from a Reddit post, it's 2 years old.

Screenshot 2025-08-08 142327.png


I genuinely wish the best for your friend. The medical professionals involved in her care have let her down massively.
 
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Sadly her story is a common one. I honestly believe that there will be an avalanche of lawsuits and more support in the future. I know this doesn't help your friend right now, but maybe it will give her hope to know she's not the only one affected and things will change.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to Reddit on here, but if you or she searches for "detrans" and "actual detrans" then you'll find many others going through the same. Although the people on there are world-wide (so what's available will differ from the UK) she may find comfort from being in a community where others have experienced the same.

Andrew Gold on YouTube has interviewed several detransitioners.

The NHS is starting to think of detransitioners (and we know how slowly this will happen :rolleyes:
https://archive.ph/yGprk

If she's in England, this appears to be genuine.
View attachment 3666966

This is from a Reddit post, it's 2 years old.

View attachment 3666967

I genuinely wish the best for your friend. The medical professionals involved in her care have let her down massively.
I feel very sorry for anyone in this position. But I’m also very pissed off that we’ll end up paying for it twice. And maybe compensation as well!
 
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I feel very sorry for anyone in this position. But I’m also very pissed off that we’ll end up paying for it twice. And maybe compensation as well!
I understand what you mean. I’m trying to get a hysterectomy and it’s such a nightmare with the waiting lists. But if I said I was a fella I’d be fast tracked.
 
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I am so sick of men and the disgusting tit they get away with. And the women who enable them tbh. My therapist is on break for a month so am going to spoiler an overshare about something that happened when I went home this weekend - it’s gross and uncomfortable which is exactly how I feel right now.

I walked in on my grandad watching porn. This in itself I can get over - he’s a man, men watch porn bla bla bla, I’m an adult and can handle that, it’s the wider context that’s just so grim.

I walked in on him once when I was a teenager (can’t remember how old, let’s say 15). Back then he was watching it on the family computer in the dining room (sounds fancier than what it was, a spare room basically). It would have been late at night, perhaps I’d stayed up late or been out somewhere and would have gone in to say goodnight and caught him unawares.

I already knew he watched porn because I’d hear him and my Nan argue about it all the time. She would also write these notes to herself, sort of like diary entries, about how much his porn use hurt her, which I’d find because she’d leave them out (presumably in the hope that he would find them, not thinking/caring as to whether or not I’d come across them instead).

He would also have the volume up so loud that I could hear what he was watching from my bedroom, which was above the dining room. This didn’t stop after I walked in on him. It continued when they moved house and the room I slept in was just across the landing from the computer room. The landing is tiny, it’s inconceivable that it wouldn’t occur to him that I could hear him, though by this stage I’d moved out for uni and was only back occasionally.

Both this time, and when I walked in on him when I was a teenager, I obviously turned around as quickly as I could. This time, I saw him as soon as I got to the top of the stairs because he was watching it with the door wide open with the laptop facing out. There are carers in and out of that house all day everyday.

Both times he saw me, but didn’t seem ashamed or embarrassed, just surprised to see me. There was no scrambling to shut the laptop/hide the screen, or even telling me to get out. He was bordering on blasé tbh.

I want to be clear that I’m not being prudish about the fact he watches porn, I really don’t give a duck because obviously that’s knowledge I’d rather not have!! If it has just been this one time then I might even be able to laugh at the complete haplessness of it all - middle of the day, door wide open, people (me!!) in the house.

But it fits a pattern of a complete lack of boundaries and care for others. He has absolutely no respect. I’m disgusted by him honestly and feel so, so gross, I can’t shake the feeling off. He’s bleeping gross.

He must have known what he was exposing me to when I was younger. Was that part of it? Or was he so porn addicted he just didn’t care? I bleeping hate him right now. I don’t want to see or speak to him ever again. I don’t want to ever go to that house again. I did try talking to my Nan about it this time because I was trying to understand if he knew I was visiting that day (I’d called her earlier to let her know I was coming), but she kept saying she didn’t understand and would get upset, and tbh it wasn’t really a conversation I wanted to have with her so I left it.

I found more of my adoption papers recently, that weren’t disclosed in the ones I got. In them I found the letters my Nan and grandad wrote when they applied to adopt me. In his, he wrote that my mum didn’t have the ‘morals’ to be a mother. Just writing that makes me so bleeping angry aghhhhhh. I hate him, I hate him, I haaaaate HIM.
It sounds like he just didn't care how it makes your Nan feel all these years and he seems to have no shame about how he's made it possible for you to unwittingly walk around the house and be exposed to his fetish. If he wants to do porn he should do it in the shed away from the house. The fact he never seemed to quickly hide or apologise to you after each time shows he just doesn't feel shame about it. So sorry you are dealing with this :(
 
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Sadly her story is a common one. I honestly believe that there will be an avalanche of lawsuits and more support in the future. I know this doesn't help your friend right now, but maybe it will give her hope to know she's not the only one affected and things will change.
There absolutely will be. I’ve been told of several law firms who are pulling together teams & resources for when the inevitable tsunami of claims ensues, as transed children realise what was allowed to happen to them when they were not able to consent.

Detransitioners are shunned by the likes of Stonewall as they are proof if the ‘true self’ lie, but as the numbers grow their collective voices will get louder.
 
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This just came up on my FYP. It doesn’t sound like the brother says he identifies as a woman (yet!) but this has so many traits of that community and I expect it’s only a matter of time. And this comment sums it up. It reminds me of the husbands who make themselves as similar to their wives as possible, and I’m sure there are TIMs that have tried to take on their sister’s appearance too.

View attachment 3666728

what the actual fffffffffffck!!! I would be cutting the brother out my life.
 
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She seems to have a cause of action against the NHS. This might help

Edit to add
There is a lot online about negligence claims against these clinics. It may be worth contacting Slater & Gordon (see foot of article) who may put you on the right track

 
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Hi everyone, I've read this thread on and off for a while and I wonder if this might be a good place to ask for advice. This is long so I'll pop it behind a spoiler.

I have a relative who was trans. She recently detransitioned and is finding a lot of difficulty, gate keeping and opposition for her decision.

For context, she was born a girl and grew up in a household where domestic abuse and sexual abuse was the norm. She struggled with her mental health, depression has always been there. She struggled with her identity as a teenager in terms of going through phases (goth, emo, preppy and so on). As a young adult, she came out as trans and was disowned by her family. She lived abroad for a time and recieved testosterone via the insurance based health service. When she returned to Scotland, she was seen at a gender clinic. The Dr (now retired in Spain) at the clinic did not look into my relative's mental health or history of sexual abuse. She was not assessed by a psychologist either which I find shocking. She now feels that as a naive, young adult, traumatised and confused, she was steered towards transitioning, including being asked leading questions. After a few sessions at the clinic, she had a full mastectomy and hysterectomy in her early 20s (on the NHS) and had been on testosterone for the last 16 years or so.
Last year she was able access support via a mental health nurse and this lead to her realisation regarding her trans identity.
She now feels she became trans as a defence mechanism to cope with the trauma from being abused by men. I think she is right.
She is devastated because now of course, she cannot have children and is struggling with facial hair and a non feminine appearance.
She had to fight to get permission to stop taking testosterone and has only recently been allowed to start taking HRT. She will not recieve help from the NHS for reconstructive surgery. She does not have the funds to fund this privately and this is affecting her mental health.
She has reached out to charities such as Stonewall and Women For Scotland and they don't want to know, stating its not their area.
She is looking to take some sort of legal action against the clinic as she feels and certainly the evidence suggests, that she was pushed into a decision when she didn't have full mental capacity. She has been left feeling let down, rejected and that the trans movement is very much a cult. I'm starting to think that way myself. I supported her for years, for the sake of her mental health and against my own instincts. Since witnessing how establishments are shutting down discourse and access to help for detransitioners, I'm convinced it is a cult now. Detransitioners seem to have pariah status, there is not a great deal of information on the Internet about it even.

Does anyone here have any insights into how my relative can either access affordable or ideally free legal advice? She either needs financial compensation to fund breast reconstruction or somehow convince the NHS to do it for free. That's her biggest issue right now. Thankfully she did not have bottom surgery during the trans years. She is funding regular electrolysis herself. She is heartbroken that she has been robbed of her ability to have children. I've wondered if it's even possible to contact JK Rowling about this but I doubt she reads her own mail. It's just very frustrating because we don't know where to look or who to ask. It's obviously quite a niche and complex situation but my relative deserves help and support. It's utterly galling that men play acting as women will be humoured but a bio woman's issues will be swept under the carpet.
I'd be grateful for any help or advice. I'm feeling especially let down by Women for Scotland and increasingly worried for my relative's mental health.
I am really sorry to you and your family member. I’m pleased they have you supporting them. The anger and upset must be overwhelming and a lot to carry.

I just came across this (https://www.avma.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Legal-action-Scotland.pdf) when googling something else. There might be some info there that is helpful, or you can contact them directly for advice.

My other thought was to look into what legal advice centres there are in your area. They are free, though usually specialise in areas such as family and employment law. However they might be able to refer you onto someone who can help.

My other ideas would be to contact orgs like The les Project, which may not apply to your family member, or any other Scottish feminist org. FWS may simply be spread too thin atm, but if there are other Scottish feminist orgs who have been active on trans issues then they might have more capacity. Sex Matters maybe? Not sure what their remit is.

My last thought is the hosts of the Double Jeopardy podcast. Tim Owen KC and Ken Macdonald KC. You’ll have to hunt down their direct email addresses (I think they both work for Matrix chambers) as I don’t think the podcast itself has a website/email address, but they’ve done a few GC friendly episodes and had guests (usually other barristers) speaking on feminist issues that the trans rights movement interferes with.

Tim Owen works in public law - I don’t know if that’s what this is, but I’m sure he would at least be sympathetic to your situation and hear you out. His hands might be tied as to how much advice he can do pro bono (free) but these people are clever, commercial and litigation minded, he’ll know where to send you if he feels you have a case, and what you’ll need to do to secure any litigation funding (because no average Joe can afford to pay for these things out of pocket). But that’s getting into the weeds a bit.

My advice more generally is to encourage your family member to get into decent therapy. I understand her deep psychological need for reconstructive surgery, but pursuing that is going to be just as taxing on her mental and physical health (as well as yours) as transitioning was in the first place.

She needs help understanding and accepting everything that has happened to her. She’s caught in a cycle of constantly reacting to all these traumas - which is so completely justified and understandable, but ultimately may not be in her best interests. She may find peace in somehow getting reconstructive surgery, or it may come from accepting the body she now has and everything that has come to pass.

I am really truly and honestly not saying she shouldn’t seek legal action against those individuals and institutions who have harmed her, I just know that either way she will be the one to bear the brunt of all of this, and so it really is vital that she is acting from a place of strength. Not because she is still desperate to escape her body.

This must be something that feminist orgs can assist with - so many therapist are absolutely loony toons on all this stuff these days, but there are sane ones still out there (mine is, to give some hope). Old school and older psychodynamic based is probably your best bet - these are most likely to be associated with feminist orgs and will likely have low income fee options (again, mine does as I original found her through a charity that has since shut down).

That’s a lot of info but I help at least some of it is helpful!
 
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Hi everyone, I've read this thread on and off for a while and I wonder if this might be a good place to ask for advice. This is long so I'll pop it behind a spoiler.

I have a relative who was trans. She recently detransitioned and is finding a lot of difficulty, gate keeping and opposition for her decision.

For context, she was born a girl and grew up in a household where domestic abuse and sexual abuse was the norm. She struggled with her mental health, depression has always been there. She struggled with her identity as a teenager in terms of going through phases (goth, emo, preppy and so on). As a young adult, she came out as trans and was disowned by her family. She lived abroad for a time and recieved testosterone via the insurance based health service. When she returned to Scotland, she was seen at a gender clinic. The Dr (now retired in Spain) at the clinic did not look into my relative's mental health or history of sexual abuse. She was not assessed by a psychologist either which I find shocking. She now feels that as a naive, young adult, traumatised and confused, she was steered towards transitioning, including being asked leading questions. After a few sessions at the clinic, she had a full mastectomy and hysterectomy in her early 20s (on the NHS) and had been on testosterone for the last 16 years or so.
Last year she was able access support via a mental health nurse and this lead to her realisation regarding her trans identity.
She now feels she became trans as a defence mechanism to cope with the trauma from being abused by men. I think she is right.
She is devastated because now of course, she cannot have children and is struggling with facial hair and a non feminine appearance.
She had to fight to get permission to stop taking testosterone and has only recently been allowed to start taking HRT. She will not recieve help from the NHS for reconstructive surgery. She does not have the funds to fund this privately and this is affecting her mental health.
She has reached out to charities such as Stonewall and Women For Scotland and they don't want to know, stating its not their area.
She is looking to take some sort of legal action against the clinic as she feels and certainly the evidence suggests, that she was pushed into a decision when she didn't have full mental capacity. She has been left feeling let down, rejected and that the trans movement is very much a cult. I'm starting to think that way myself. I supported her for years, for the sake of her mental health and against my own instincts. Since witnessing how establishments are shutting down discourse and access to help for detransitioners, I'm convinced it is a cult now. Detransitioners seem to have pariah status, there is not a great deal of information on the Internet about it even.

Does anyone here have any insights into how my relative can either access affordable or ideally free legal advice? She either needs financial compensation to fund breast reconstruction or somehow convince the NHS to do it for free. That's her biggest issue right now. Thankfully she did not have bottom surgery during the trans years. She is funding regular electrolysis herself. She is heartbroken that she has been robbed of her ability to have children. I've wondered if it's even possible to contact JK Rowling about this but I doubt she reads her own mail. It's just very frustrating because we don't know where to look or who to ask. It's obviously quite a niche and complex situation but my relative deserves help and support. It's utterly galling that men play acting as women will be humoured but a bio woman's issues will be swept under the carpet.
I'd be grateful for any help or advice. I'm feeling especially let down by Women for Scotland and increasingly worried for my relative's mental health.
Just out of interest, did she have the horrible 'zip' across the middle surgery, or an 'under boob' surgery that would hide the scar under a reconstruction?
 
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Sadly RFKJ is an insane anti vax anti medicine full stop individual, so the cheers are rather hollow.

I don't see any sealioning on here apart from someone giving their perspective. It doesn't tend to go down very well giving anything other than a "trans is insanity" viewpoint but genuine trans people do exist, and the poster believes their friend is one of them. As someone with a trans friend and trans cousin (I'm not convinced the latter is genuinely trans so much as sadly terribly mixed up) I understand that.

@chizontitz I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I really am. No shame on you and also there's nothing prudish about disapproving of porn. I hate the way we're all supposed to be so cool about it. It's damaging to all concerned and I won't tolerate it in any relationship I have. : permasingle:
 
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Oh for duck sake :rolleyes:
Well I hope Courtney puts them right!

----------

 
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Great news for the north-eastern terven collective: our local p has been in action again, hiding in bins with his trousers down and smearing tit all over the place. Just your average, normal woman going about her average, normal day.

Though LOL at this clear trolling from the Chronicle:

1754675093515.jpeg
 
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THANK GOD!

About bliddy time! Wonderful news!
it is and it isn’t. One the one hand, I don’t care about the politics or motivations of those making what I think are ‘good’ decisions that benefit society. On the other hand, I think I have to care because the wider agenda is so clearly misogynistic. Like I can handle agreeing with the likes of Trump and RFK on this one issue, but I am v anxious about what is to follow - they are no friends to women or girls.

Ultimately it is the so called ‘progressives’ who should be utterly ashamed at creating the void for Trump et al to fill. An absolute own goal and the consequences will be borne out by women and girls for decades to come. It’s an unforgivable betrayal.
 
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Sadly RFKJ is an insane anti vax anti medicine full stop individual, so the cheers are rather hollow.

I don't see any sealioning on here apart from someone giving their perspective. It doesn't tend to go down very well giving anything other than a "trans is insanity" viewpoint but genuine trans people do exist, and the poster believes their friend is one of them. As someone with a trans friend and trans cousin (I'm not convinced the latter is genuinely trans so much as sadly terribly mixed up) I understand that.

@chizontitz I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I really am. No shame on you and also there's nothing prudish about disapproving of porn. I hate the way we're all supposed to be so cool about it. It's damaging to all concerned and I won't tolerate it in any relationship I have. : permasingle:
I'm not being argumentative but what what is a genuine trans person? No mammals can change sex.
 
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