Gender Discussion #66

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Want to add onto this and say if you’re ever in this situation, the best way to take the power back (as such) is to not look at them at all - they do not exist. Even when they try and talk to you, which they will if they clock you’re not pandering to their performance. Reply if you want but appear flippant and don’t make eye contact. It drives them up the wall.
Exactly, they want to be seen acknowleged and praised. Ignoring them hurts them
The thing that tipped me into full blown terfdom was this, I'll try and keep it succinct.

My best friend for 20 yrs was a man who was awkward around women (he only ever had one girlfriend in the whole time I knew him), very gentle and sensitive. Or so I thought.

In 2017 I, my sister and him went on a caravan holiday. When he was elsewhere, my sister said "So how long has XXXX been wearing ladies' underwear?" I was gobsmacked, this was news to me. She had caught a glimpse of him getting changed in the awning wearing full, frilly lingerie, stockings, the lot.

I kept a lid on my emotions till we got home and then confronted him. I said what he did privately was up to him but that it was wildly inappropriate to bring his perversions on that holiday. I was fuming and told him to leave me alone for a few days whilst I calmed down and then we'd talk.

I'll never forget his response - "Sorry, can't do that. You will talk to me". I immediately got a bad feeling in my stomach.

He then proceeded to stalk and harrass me for two and a half years.

He set up dozens of social media accounts and email addresses to harrass me, left numerous gifts, cards, flowers and letters at my house. His emails and messages could switch from "You're the best friend I ever had, I love you and I'm sorry" to "I hate you, you evil bleep, I hope you die a painful death alone" in the space of an hour. He threatened to kill himself if I didn't speak to hm. He harrassed my family and friends.

I moved 70 miles away (not just because of this tbf) and he found out where I lived and threatened to move there saying "I'll find you and I'm dangerous because I have nothing to lose".

In one of his rambling emails he said, tellingly, that he thought was a lesbian trapped in a man's body :sick: and that women had always rejected him so he wanted to dress up as one as a duck you to women who blanked him and that it was the only way he'd get his hands on/in women's underwear.

It was absolutely terrifying. My sweet, gentle almost asexual friend was actually a perverted, monstrous, deranged incel autogynephiliac man who had hidden his true character from me for twenty years. I was enraged and heartbroken in equal measure. We had never had a single cross word or disagreement in those two decades. He properly switched on me, it was like living in a parallel universe.

In the end I got someone to have a word in his ear (I'll say no more than that) and he finally left me alone. To this day I have no social media accounts in my name and I'm only ever two metres from a weapon in my (extremely secure) home.

He made sure I couldn't go to the police as my closest female friend grew and sold weed and he said if I did he'd grass her up.

These freaks walk amongst us. I am now extremely distrustful of anyone. If my best friend of 20 years could do this to me, who the hell can I trust?

He knew my views on trannies which is probably why he never told me. But this absolutely tipped me into complete terfdom. These men are bitter, dangerous and they hate women.

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Oh my goodness, that must have been so scary when he started harassing and stalking you. What the heck!!
 
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It's something I'm still considering particularly as my female friend is no longer involved in that business. I just feel it would rile him up again and start it all over again. He grew up in care and has no family and since I told all our mutual friends about it he is a pariah. He left the area because of it. I fear he would kill me as he often told me he "has nothing to lose" and I can imagine he is bitter I told everyone about it. I also don't want to drag my friend who 'had a word with him' into it either, that could be a separate criminal matter in itself. That said, if I read in the news that he did all this to someone else the guilt would destroy me.

To think, this is the man who always walked me home to make sure I was safe, as he did with his other female friends. When we went to gigs or festivals and pervy men bothered me whilst I was dancing he would stand behind me and scowl at them (he's a big bloke). I trusted him with my life.

Everyone thought he was a sweet, geeky gentleman but he was actually a monster.
I wonder if he was nice to you until you questioned him. Protective of you (perhaps possessive in a way) until you held a mirror up to him and he flipped. Almost like he felt you rejected him which seems to be a male fear. How terrifying though for someone you knew 20 years to suddenly change dramatically. My mind is blown right now.
 
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My device being weird so I can’t quote but in response to the post upthread about the unisex toilets with no urinals you just know the seats will be covered in stale, stinking, sprayed-on man pee. Public toilets are gross enough but it’s predictable where women might wet the seat and can be wiped/covered, not everyone is fit enough to hover. (My germ phobia is showing 😅) Most men I know, especially older generations, are very squeamish about periods and would be horrified to witness a woman washing blood from her hands as sometimes has to be done. Unisex toilets should be avoided wherever possible for dignity as well as safety. It’s like the feelings and experiences of “normal” men and women are less important than those of trans people.
It’s so true what someone else was saying- when TRAs scream “trans rights are human rights” (of course they bloody are, we’re all human) they are really saying “we demand special privileges” because they are not satisfied with being like everyone else. So what exactly do you want- acceptance or singled-out?
 
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I wonder if he was nice to you until you questioned him. Protective of you (perhaps possessive in a way) until you held a mirror up to him and he flipped. Almost like he felt you rejected him which seems to be a male fear. How terrifying though for someone you knew 20 years to suddenly change dramatically. My mind is blown right now.
BIB - Exactly this.
After that first email from him that made clear he wasn't going to be ignored (hello Alex Forrest) he went full psycho within 24 hours. We exchanged messages for a few weeks; me telling him - politely - to start with to leave me alone and him being abusive and persistent. After that I just completely ignored him and he carried on for two and a half years.

I think by completely blanking him it sent him doolally and triggered some massive rejection response because he got dumped for 10 years in a crappy care home as a little kid by his mother. That's my retrospective armchair psychologist take on it anyway.

I cannot overstate that this was the most placid person I knew. The person who stopped fights in pubs, acted as mediator in disputes within friendship groups, incredibly popular gentle soul. We even shared houses over the years, he was close as family to me, always platonic.


Sorry to everyone for these long posts, I'll not derail the thread any further. Although it's been surprisingly cathartic to write it all down. Thank you for the reactions. You bunch of legends.





 
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BIB - Exactly this.
After that first email from him that made clear he wasn't going to be ignored (hello Alex Forrest) he went full psycho within 24 hours. We exchanged messages for a few weeks; me telling him - politely - to start with to leave me alone and him being abusive and persistent. After that I just completely ignored him and he carried on for two and a half years.

I think by completely blanking him it sent him doolally and triggered some massive rejection response because he got dumped for 10 years in a crappy care home as a little kid by his mother. That's my retrospective armchair psychologist take on it anyway.

I cannot overstate that this was the most placid person I knew. The person who stopped fights in pubs, acted as mediator in disputes within friendship groups, incredibly popular gentle soul. We even shared houses over the years, he was close as family to me, always platonic.


Sorry to everyone for these long posts, I'll not derail the thread any further. Although it's been surprisingly cathartic to write it all down. Thank you for the reactions. You bunch of legends.





No worries about derailing, it's relevant to the thread, it goes to show that some of these men (most) hate women when we say no. It's why if I see an AGP in the claustrophobic sized loos I'd probably keep my head down until I am safe distance then go make a complaint, because most of these AGPs going into the ladies loos are probably expecting to cause discomfort and be observed, and if they are not given that attention they might be looking for a fight.

I'm quite daintily built body structure wise, I'd snap like a twig if I came up again a big bruiser like Eddie Iz the 'Comic'. This is why they get away with intimidation, comes down to the biological strength differences :( I also know someone at work whose partner was nice as pie to her until she pushed back on something and then he flipped his tit. All because she said no to something he wanted. No nuanced conversation, deliberation, understanding, just intimidation and rage. Some men just cannot cope with rejection. Yet I'm willing to bet all women, even the prettiest, most socially desired ones get rejected again and again, at work, in the doctor's office when asking for diagnosis, in customer service, in the dating scene, within marriages etc etc, we are used to rejection and often reject ourselves.

Just my early morning pre-coffee ramble.
 
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I was complaining about “be kind” yesterday but I’m also fed up with the way “transphobic” is used to shut down ANY conversation or thoughts that they don’t like. If they’re not treated as special or fawned over, it’s transphobic, if you have concerns about surgical mutilation of young adults, it’s transphobic, if you want women only spaces, and NO men in women only spaces, it’s transphobic. It’s another weapon that they used to shut down any rational debate.
 
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Tell me this is a parody.



Lie to me if necessary but tell me this is a parody
Woman plays along with man’s delusional self-image because, as all women know, telling a man that he’s not who/what he believes himself to be can have dangerous consequences. 😐
 
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BIB - Exactly this.
After that first email from him that made clear he wasn't going to be ignored (hello Alex Forrest) he went full psycho within 24 hours. We exchanged messages for a few weeks; me telling him - politely - to start with to leave me alone and him being abusive and persistent. After that I just completely ignored him and he carried on for two and a half years.

I think by completely blanking him it sent him doolally and triggered some massive rejection response because he got dumped for 10 years in a crappy care home as a little kid by his mother. That's my retrospective armchair psychologist take on it anyway.

I cannot overstate that this was the most placid person I knew. The person who stopped fights in pubs, acted as mediator in disputes within friendship groups, incredibly popular gentle soul. We even shared houses over the years, he was close as family to me, always platonic.


Sorry to everyone for these long posts, I'll not derail the thread any further. Although it's been surprisingly cathartic to write it all down. Thank you for the reactions. You bunch of legends.





Definitely don't think you're derailing, I think its good to hear people's perspective and it really does help cement our views that this isn't just a harmless choice someone is making. This is a safe place to express those things too that we feel nervous to do in public forums.

I'm just sorry you've had to deal with it all. To feel you need to carry a weapon makes me so sad. It's worth you trying to have a conversation, perhaps off the record, with someone involved in domestic violence prevention/ stalking prevention, perhaps a charity, to get advice on whether you could report what happened to you and if it's wise or safe for you to do so. If he's done it to you he could have done it to others and policing is so driven now by levels of reporting to them, one report might not lead to action but a few reports might prompt some intervention to take place.
 
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I think there's a lot of truth in that, petitspois. They want to incite fear or get praise. Being laughed at is their worst nightmare.

I remember someone saying once that if you said to a woman - if I lock you in a room with 20 men what is your biggest fear? The woman would say she feared being raped and/or killed. Whereas if you said to a man if I lock you in a room with 20 women what is your biggest fear, they would say being mocked and laughed at.
It's that classic Margaret Atwood quote, isn't it?

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.
 
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BIB - Exactly this.
After that first email from him that made clear he wasn't going to be ignored (hello Alex Forrest) he went full psycho within 24 hours. We exchanged messages for a few weeks; me telling him - politely - to start with to leave me alone and him being abusive and persistent. After that I just completely ignored him and he carried on for two and a half years.

I think by completely blanking him it sent him doolally and triggered some massive rejection response because he got dumped for 10 years in a crappy care home as a little kid by his mother. That's my retrospective armchair psychologist take on it anyway.

I cannot overstate that this was the most placid person I knew. The person who stopped fights in pubs, acted as mediator in disputes within friendship groups, incredibly popular gentle soul. We even shared houses over the years, he was close as family to me, always platonic.


Sorry to everyone for these long posts, I'll not derail the thread any further. Although it's been surprisingly cathartic to write it all down. Thank you for the reactions. You bunch of legends.





You arent derailing.

I have a similar story (minus the harassment).

My lovely, straight, wacky, eccentric friend. The one who was always trying to stick up for women and say the right thing, incredibly left wing (sometimes a bit too much for me) and fully blokey friend said they were emigrating. Bit sad, I was but a big adventure for them,.

He was there a week and I had a message 'can I call you, I have the BEST news' His call was 'I am a woman called Luna'. I think he expected flowers or applause or something from me, but I was already semi gender critical. Anyway, within weeks, his profile had went from being about himself, music, food, travelling, to sex, fetish, 'being girly'. It was sick. He was (on his main profile, where his Mam and Dad were) asing for 'fet life' connections and posting sickening pictures of himself in lingerie.

He then started commenting on feminist memes saying 'when you are a woman you are sexualised and ignored' and stuff like that. It was grim.

I havent spoken to him in years. Hes gone full TRA.
 
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This is incredibly worrying.

Children starting school with no cognitive or neurological deficits, but unable to make simple requests, speak intelligibly, and who are not toilet-trained is horrendous. It also places a huge burden n the educations system.

Regarding potty training, I honestly think one problem is the sue of disposable nappies and their effectiveness in keeping a child comfortable.

Parents have no incentive to start training (because they don't have the burden of nappies to wash) and children don't get uncomfortable because urine is kept away from the skin (even faeces aren't particularly uncomfortable until they start to cool.

I used to let my 18 month-2 year-olds run round the garden with just a tee-shirt on, and stick a potty under their bums if they stopped to pee etc, and encouraged them to use it (but I don't know if I'd be happy to do that now when we know how many PDfiles there are about). They soon got the hang of things. Obviously they couldn't wait long for the loo, but they learned to recognise the signs they needed to go, and would let me know. I took a potty almost everywhere . . . Yes, we had accidents, but it's surprising how quickly they become reliable.
The issue is parents who just can't be arsed.

When she was 2, by daughter saw a pack of knickers with a particular character she liked and asked for them. I said she could have them when she didn't wee in her nappy. We bought them within a week.
 
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The issue is parents who just can't be arsed.

When she was 2, by daughter saw a pack of knickers with a particular character she liked and asked for them. I said she could have them when she didn't wee in her nappy. We bought them within a week.
I found bribery worked well with my daughter too 😄 when she wouldn't give up her dummy to go to sleep at night I told her she could have the cuddly toy she kept asking for from the Disney store if she handed over all the dummies for me to bin. She couldn't do it fast enough 😀
 
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You arent derailing.

I have a similar story (minus the harassment).

My lovely, straight, wacky, eccentric friend. The one who was always trying to stick up for women and say the right thing, incredibly left wing (sometimes a bit too much for me) and fully blokey friend said they were emigrating. Bit sad, I was but a big adventure for them,.

He was there a week and I had a message 'can I call you, I have the BEST news' His call was 'I am a woman called Luna'. I think he expected flowers or applause or something from me, but I was already semi gender critical. Anyway, within weeks, his profile had went from being about himself, music, food, travelling, to sex, fetish, 'being girly'. It was sick. He was (on his main profile, where his Mam and Dad were) asing for 'fet life' connections and posting sickening pictures of himself in lingerie.

He then started commenting on feminist memes saying 'when you are a woman you are sexualised and ignored' and stuff like that. It was grim.

I havent spoken to him in years. Hes gone full TRA.
He must have been hiding his fetish under the radar for a while, then, I doubt he just became AGP overnight... gives me the shudders. How strange.
 
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I wonder how many potential Labour voters understand what they're really voting for here 😪
This, along with Labour's stance on adding VAT to private school fees (it's the children that will suffer here), is why I will no longer vote for them.

I have a deep dislike and distrust of Kier Starmer.
 
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