Gender Discussion #65

[Dobbythehouseelf]

Coming up to a year this week when my 12yr old told us he had gender dysphoria completely out of the blue. What a year it's been!!

Saw a school therapist (who he had told first) who referred me to a mermaids type charity and on reading the website I just felt it didn't sit right with our family and our situation. She told me to put girls clothes in his wardrobe for him to wear at home. As a huge LGBT ally, I really struggled with my feelings on the subject. I wanted to be supportive and for a few weeks I contemplated leaving my marriage as my husband just said flat out no and buried his head in the sand and refused to even entertain the idea.

The trans acceptance I was peddled just didn't sit right with me though. I knew I had to protect my son who up to this point had never ever appeared gender non-conforming. So out of character. He was shy, not sporty, introverted, and had recently started upper school and found himself with a group of friends who were all mentally ill and struggling with their identity....but this didn't mean he was actually a girl?!

We told him that we loved him, we were sorry he felt so uncomfortable with his body in puberty, that it was normal and that we were not going to let him identify as someone else, change pronouns, clothes etc. I felt like the worst mother in the world. I barely slept for months with the worry.

I found this thread which was a lifesaver. Did my research. Stuck to our guns. Horrified by stories from detransitioners. Educated myself to the actual horror of transitioning medically and how just that first step is a slippery slope. Binged podcasts on the subject.

Fast forward a year and he is still a boy. We have had some wobbles but we have showered our son with so much love...we have convinced him he is normal, we've encouraged him to use his body in new ways (swimming, long walks etc), he has naturally gravitated away from that group of friends, he makes silly jokes about willies etc and we all laugh. I have stopped verbally hating on men so much (as a staunch feminist I have to remind myself that two people I love the most - him and his dad- are male) and generally things seem normal.

I heard on the Gender: A Wider Lens podcast that you don't ask a person recovering from an eating disorder how their anorexia is so I don't bring it up with him ever. He only ever spoke about it 4 times with us in the last year....3 times over text message and one forced face-to-face. I sometimes wonder if it was real or a horrible dream.

Not sure of the point of this....just to give some comfort to lurkers of this thread who may not be strong enough to post. There is a way to hopefully get through this. And between the laughable posts about AGPs and dodgy MP candidates there are real NORMAL families struggling with what to do when their kid out of the blue says that they are the wrong gender and I want them to know they are not alone.

I have thought about what I would do if any of my kids said this to me - and what you have put is useful. Children do feel uncomfortable during puberty. Hell, its only now I am the fattest and oldest I have ever been that I actually like myself! Because I realise my body has a purpose beyond being attractive!

I also would love to point out to kids - Marc Bolan, Grace Jones, David Bowie, Annie Lennox... we have been playing with the idea of gender identity for years, I mean any Shakesperean comedy has the idea in it. But, we can lean into it. If we like a masculine or feminine look/vibe that doesn't make us any less of the biological sex that we are.

The whole AGP pigtails, twinset and pearls thing drive me crackers. There are a thousand ways to be a woman, but they present as one tired cliche.

 

[Brian Butterfield]

I think this comment sums it up perfectly.

 

[GlitterFluff]

Which is exactly what my gay hairdresser says!!! He says that being gay is too normal now and that all the young ones want to be trans to stand out!!!

I hope I can word this correctly (I ache from being at the allotment all day and have had a few medicinal wines )

I sometimes read through the trans subreddits. Quick background - I like to understand as many opinions and sides of the equation as possible before forming an opinion.

The people posting there just SCREAM teenage angst/lack of social integration. This is nothing new, but in years gone by we were able to express our ‘non conformity to social norms’ via music or fashion - for example.

What seems to be happening now is when someone feels they don’t ’fit in/conform’ they’re told they’re trans. This is then affirmed by schools, medical practitioners and the vast abyss of the internet and before you know it, kids are being hurtled down the tunnel of no return.

Quite terrifying.

 

[klarakluckbag]

Lol at E45 alienating 51% of the population in order to pander to the 0.2% who have to endure "transition skin" (?)
AGP's who wear their wives' knickers in secret (the vast majority of the current transgender demographic), aren't going to be buying big pots of E45 in the supermarket. Much as they love prancing around in front of the mirror to Taylor Swift songs whilst twirling their skirts, replenishing the bathroom supplies during the weekly shop will remain a task delegated to the actual female half of their relationship.

 

[ThisIsMyGuiltyPleasure]

She didn't answer the question at all. It's my understanding that a man can obtain a GRC without having any sort of surgery, therefore by her logic she would place a biological man into a woman's prison. She waffles on a lot without actually answering.
---

Absolute nonsense!

Plus, Sir Robert Winston has publicly said this many times. He hardly has time in his schedule to speak individually to every half-wit in the country.

If senior nurses believe that men can change sex to become women then I'm sorry but they should be struck off.

 

[mozzarellagirl]

just need to share this because i don’t have anyone in person to talk to about this stuff! i’m so ANGRY.

the irony of it being labelled “diversity and inclusion” in the corner, but then I forget women don't matter.

“non-men”… what’s the betting the definition for gay men isn’t “non-women”?

just say women and non-binary people! but that would mean not being misogynistic and using their logical heads. better yet! just say women, as to be a lesbian, you have to be a woman! period!

Sick of this nonsense about ‘identifying’ with a sexuality or ‘label’ rather than it being innate. I could identify as straight all I wanted but it won’t change a thing about my same sex attraction. Nobody complains about being ‘labelled’ brunette or brown eyed, because it’s innate! It’s the same with sexuality. It is or it isn’t.

 

[JAR21]

It's ironic that women had to fight for the vote and now they have to vote to remain safe.

 

[Funny_bunny]

Absolutely well done to them.

It makes me so angry that they were told to be 'more inclusive' and to 'broaden their mindset' to allow a filthy pervert into their changing room. He actually asked one woman repeatedly was she not getting changed. These perverts must not be able to believe what they are getting away with.

And it makes me want to cry too because I wonder how things have come to this. That women cannot feel safe in their own workplaces and are shouted down if they dare to speak out.

It’s horrific isn’t it? Imagine not being allowed to object to having a creepy man in a women’s changing room, and actually being chastised and told to “educate yourself”. I find it particularly disturbing within the NHS as surely anyone with an in depth understanding of biology knows that gender ideology makes no more sense than believing in the bloody tooth fairy.
Well done those nurses, let’s hope we see more push back on this bullying of women.

 

[Dinate]

I had a LibDem canvasser at my door today. Where I live traditionally you could put up a scarecrow with a blue rosette up and it would win. But lately the LibDems have the most councillors and have been making up ground with the Tories so there's a real chance they might win this seat this time round.

I said to him that me and many others are politically homeless because the LibDems and Labour can't define what a woman is. He was a man in his early sixties I think, and it was obvious that this was an issue he hadn't given any thought to. I referred to Adam Graham and he agreed that that was an appalling situation, so I said that it could happen again because his leader thinks that you can change literally change sex. I said that if he (the canvasser) woke up tomorrow and declared himself to be a transwoman, Ed Davey's stance woul d mean that he would be allowed into women's safe spaces, changing rooms, toilets, sports etc.

I ended up feeling sorry for him because as I say, this is something that he has clearly never given any thought to, so I don't think that he personally believes that TWAW. He said that he would take my views to the actual candidate. Anyway, I felt quite satisfied with myself for hopefully having educated someone.

 

[petitspois]

If you look at it, one group within society is responsible for almost all sex crimes, almost all child sex offences and, more generally, make up over 90% of the prison population - men. If we didn't live in a patriarchal society, we'd be looking seriously at ways to better socialise, educate and prevent men from committing these crimes. Instead we accept it and end up victim shaming, adapting our behaviour and putting up with untold harms.

 

[Sweetcouchpotato]

I just saw a post on reddit from a mother whose 7 year old son has become convinced he is invisible and asking how she can break the delusion without harming his psyche. Everyone I saw was saying "a 7 year old is too old to be believing this", "magical thinking should not be encouraged", "he could be in danger of real, damaging consequences" etc.

But imagine if she'd said "my 7 year old son thinks he's a girl, how can I rid him of this delusion?"

I'm almost convinced it has to be a thought exercise to see if the "trans kid" connection is made by anyone.

 

[AbnormalFrog]

Oh yes, you definitely seem of sound enough mind to begin life/body altering medication.

 

[nothanksbabes]

I know it’s been said extensively on here but I just dread Pride so much now. It’s no longer about being out, visible and proud. It’s all about being a trans ally and who has got the most niche sexual fetish. Then shoving it in people’s faces. I don’t find the progress flag inclusive at all, in fact, it alienates anyone who isn’t captured by the gender ideology cult. The lesbians I know are avoiding the festivities because they don’t want to interact with AGPs or to be “educated” on what a gay woman is. The TRAs are confrontational and can’t just let people enjoy the atmosphere without making it all about them.
I read upthread that some “conservative” areas in USA aren’t stocking Pride merch or displaying flags- this is what pride should be challenging- lack of acceptance and visibility in places that are traditionally homophobic, but how can you hope to enlighten anyone that being gay is just a normal part of everyday life when at every turn LGB is now associated with T+alphabet soup.

Me and my ex girlfriend always went to Pride when we were younger. We lived next to Canal Street in Manchester and spent a huge amount of time there. There used to be a significant lesbian presence and a couple of lesbian bars, but they're all gone now. Gay women are pretty much none existent in the community and its entire purpose is to pander to men in frocks. I used to love the bars where the cross dressers went, they were always really fun, but back then we knew the difference between cross dressers/AGPs with their poor wives in tow, who were tolerated and drag queens, who are gay men and part of the community, and the actually pretty rare transsexuals, who were usually same sex attracted (so if not trans they would have identified as gay) and generally kept to themselves and were well accepted.

Now the AGPs dominate and somehow have been placed front and centre of the LGBT community and subsequently Pride. There was always a bit of a sexual element to Pride, mostly shirtless gay men and guys in leather, but it wasn't overt, gross 'kink' like it is now, and children were not expected or encouraged to participate. Incidentally I'd have had no issue taking a child to see the parade back then, but nothing else as Pride has always been awash with drink and drugs.

There is absolutely an agenda going on here, and it's clear to any of us who have been watching this shit for the last 25 years. And the lesbians have been forced out.

 

[usefullyuseless]

I'm shocked the mother is happier to have her child medically castrated than consider he may have mental health issues that need to be worked through.

 

[VC10]

Just seen

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

(He just called me Katie Hopkins after expressing my thoughts about Eddie Izzard being referred to as she on tv)

Reciprocate by calling him ‘Peter Tatchell’.

 

[Funny_bunny]

Talking of fucking embarrassing, sorry if it’s been posted before, but look at the state of Izzard.

 

[Django]

Ugh Eddie Izzard in full 'girl' mode on Saturday Kitchen Live wearing a little white broderie d'anglaise skirt. He forgot himself on the trailer and spread his legs

 

[Scotch Mist]

I just don't think I can be bothered with the election thread anymore as its full of people who think that gender ideology isn't a problem and we're horrible oppressors for suggesting otherwise.

I saw a video earlier today, but cant find it now to link it, about how trans men go through early menopause and how the hormones ruin their pelvic floors. It actually makes me sad that these people are ruining their bodies. Imagine voluntarily putting yourself into menopause early There was a comment from a woman underneath the video saying that her nephew who became a trans woman now has fragile bones caused by the hormones and is facing an early death.

But hey mustn't forget just I'm just a horrible oppressor

 

[FourSeasonSoupObsessive]

That pic of Izzard makes me think of a Jack Monroe thread title “the devil works hard, but portrait mode works harder”. Photoshop doing some HEAVY lifting in that shot, he looks fucking nothing like that Also, will someone please stage a lipstick intervention? He always wears these really harsh colours that are all wrong on a middle aged man (if indeed there is a lipstick that would be “right”). Also, ew- winsome girlishness does not sit well on 60 year old fellas.

Mr SoupyO got a hold of the issue immediately when we first started talking about it- he’s a man who genuinely likes and respects women and didn’t need led through all the ramifications. He’s now a bigger terf than I am very lucky.