Gender Discussion #64

[VeniVidiVicki]

This is also from Debbie. When was the school guidance she wrote issued ?

This transgender schools guidance leaves a lot to be desired

After such a long wait – this guidance is a disappointment

debbiehayton.com

Like I said I find Debbies position reasonable. If she knows she's not female and believes in single sex spaces I don't find her a threat.

But again I'm happy to be proven wrong with anything more up to date than this where she advocates for males in female spaces ?

He has been asked numerous times if he has withdrawn the guidance he’s written for NASUWT and refused to answer

This is it: https://dera.ioe.ac.uk/id/eprint/33503/1/085066bb-c224-40de-b79e2a1358801ee9.pdf

Given he’s never publicly said he no longer stands by this, I can only conclude he does.

Also

and

Hayton is a liar. He’s a man who believes in ‘trutrans’ - he doesn’t believe in self ID and thinks because he’s made himself a eunuch, he deserves a pass to womenhood.

He does not. Women are not men without cocks.

 

[SIXTYNINEDUDES!]

He has been asked numerous times if he has withdrawn the guidance he’s written for NASUWT and refused to answer

This is it: https://dera.ioe.ac.uk/id/eprint/33503/1/085066bb-c224-40de-b79e2a1358801ee9.pdf

Given he’s never publicly said he no longer stands by this, I can only conclude he does.

Also
View attachment 2933067
and
View attachment 2933070

Hayton is a liar. He’s a man who believes in ‘trutrans’ - he doesn’t believe in self ID and thinks because he’s made himself a eunuch, he deserves a pass to womenhood.

He does not. Women are not men without cocks.

Thanks for taking the time to respond and link. I'll have a read now.

 

[Mugglewump]

He has been asked numerous times if he has withdrawn the guidance he’s written for NASUWT and refused to answer

This is it: https://dera.ioe.ac.uk/id/eprint/33503/1/085066bb-c224-40de-b79e2a1358801ee9.pdf

Given he’s never publicly said he no longer stands by this, I can only conclude he does.

Also
View attachment 2933067
and
View attachment 2933070

Hayton is a liar. He’s a man who believes in ‘trutrans’ - he doesn’t believe in self ID and thinks because he’s made himself a eunuch, he deserves a pass to womenhood.

He does not. Women are not men without cocks.

I've spoken to women who have met him, apparently he behaves exactly like a man and dominates the conversation.
Colour me shocked.

 

[Miss Begotten]

I've spoken to women who have met him, apparently he behaves exactly like a man and dominates the conversation.
Colour me shocked.

He is one!

 

[Scotch Mist]

Anyone following Alison Bailey’s case, her appeal against Stonewall is due to be heard this week. She sets out the history in the tweet below:

I hope Alison wins. She's been through a lot. I would love to see her vindicated.

 

[maytoseptember]

I do agree with DH though that a nasty side has crept into JKRs tweets lately. In her 2020 essay she talks about knowing and loving trans people and is clear that her red line is that biological sex is real and that no one has the right to force us to say it isn't or to take women's sex based rights away.

There's a meanness and singularity to her tweets lately. I saw her use the phrase "cross dresser" during the week. And fine you might think that manager/referee looks a state but again as Debbie said football management is already open to any gender and there's no advantage conferred here so why bother targetting him ?

In 2020 she was tentatively sticking her head above the parapet, after being called out for liking GC tweets, panicking and blaming it on a “senior moment”.

In other words, she was still trying to pander to TRAs a little bit, because she was scared.

A lot has happened since then. She could never have predicted the years and years and YEARS of unfathomable abuse, death threats and friends/acquaintances turning their back on her. That has to do something to one’s psyche, right?

She’s more hard line now. So am I. So are many people on this thread I’m sure. So where once she said “dress however you like”, now she’s calling out cross dressing men for being cross dressing men.

I think more fetishistic cross dressers need to be ridiculed, quite honestly. It’s better than bleeping applauding them.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

Debbie is a he, not a she. Debbie created the school guidance that says boys should be allowed in girls spaces if they identify as girls. Debbie uses women’s toilets.

Thinking that manipulative men like Debbie are reasonable is how we ended up in this mess in the first place.

Also Stonewall is clear that cross dressers are under the trans umbrella

Thinking that manipulative men like Debbie are reasonable is how we ended up in this mess in the first place.

Exactly! That's how they slip under the radar. "But Debbie admits being a man. So reasonable. Of course we'll call him, her". But still demands women's spaces, women's pronouns (just to be polite), women's few and hard-won privileges for men etc while being fully aware that he's a bloke, the likes of IW are blokes - and all of them are blokes - even the tiny percentage who are genuinely dysmorphic.

Debbie isn't "nice". Debbie is calculating.

 

[smellyfootballboots]

I never said the ref was a woman. I said when JKR flings insults (or what can be perceived as insults given cross dresser is quite an outdated term) she makes it easy to dismiss the myriad of correct things she is also saying as just the ramblings of a bigot.

Maybe it is a case that she's worn down and the gloves are off but maybe she also just needs a break from twitter.

I also find Debbie hayton to be quite reasonable in that she also knows and says out loud that she knows that she is not *literally* a woman?

If he was reasonable we could tell him no, and he would respect that. Instead he proves over and over that he is a predatory man breaching women's boundaries. He is still demanding to be called she, use women only spaces and had the flaming cheek to speak for women!

Any man willing to breach our boundaries is predatory. Hayton, Willoughby, Blaire White, Jenner - all predatory men trying desperately to not lose the privileges they stole from women.

 

[maytoseptember]

You are still calling him 'her' and 'she.'

Wow, could it be that this new poster trying to discredit JKR (amongst other things) might not be posting in good faith?

 

[Miss Begotten]

I never said the ref was a woman. I said when JKR flings insults (or what can be perceived as insults given cross dresser is quite an outdated term) she makes it easy to dismiss the myriad of correct things she is also saying as just the ramblings of a bigot.

Maybe it is a case that she's worn down and the gloves are off but maybe she also just needs a break from twitter.

I also find Debbie hayton to be quite reasonable in that she also knows and says out loud that she knows that she is not *literally* a woman?

OK I’m very confused.
You claim that you never said the ref was a woman. Correct. He isn’t.
And in the same post, you refer to Debbie Hayton as “she”. Debbie Hayton is a man, so why are you referring to him as she? You understand that the ref is a bloke but you don’t understand that Hayton is a man as well?

 

[SIXTYNINEDUDES!]

OK I’m very confused.
You claim that you never said the ref was a woman. Correct. He isn’t.
And in the same post, you refer to Debbie Hayton as “she”. Debbie Hayton is a man, so why are you referring to him as she? You understand that the ref is a bloke but you don’t understand that Hayton is a man as well?

No I understand that both are male. I've already said pronouns are just meaningless words. I called Bambie Thug both she and they earlier. I'm on the Saccone joly thread and I only call Eduardo he because I believe he's being compelled to act trans by his pervert father.

Having said that, I understand why it would upset you that someone tries to compel you personally to address them a specific way.

I'm unclear why you would be so triggered by my use of the word "she" that you'd quote me. It's like TRAs screaming litErAl vIolEnCe at the opposite end of the scale.

I'm free to address anyone anyway I want. No one can compel me in either direction.
---

Wow, could it be that this new poster trying to discredit JKR (amongst other things) might not be posting in good faith?

New poster? I'm on tattle a long time and I've posted on plenty of earlier GC threads. And Jesus "discredit"...you mean where I wrote in two seperate posts I think she's amazing.

Are your GC views so fragile that they can't take even mild commentary that maybe not everyone is an evil pervert with an evil agenda?

I only joined in today after it was suggested singers in the Eurovision were part of a plot to lure in kids (which was easily and quickly proven false).

When you try to shut down even minor disagreement you're no better than the "no debate" side.

 

[Tofino]

Curious how? I also used she/her. It's just made up words either way.

I’m curious why you are choosing to use the preferred pronouns of the trans-identified people you are talking about even though they (plural) are most likely not even reading here, when you have described yourself as gender critical and presumably don’t believe in gender identity ideology.

I’m even more curious why you use them if they are just made up words to you. Do you feel it’s a kindness thing? Not harmful?

The post I quoted didn’t use she/her once and you’ve continued to use female pronouns when posting about trans-identified men.

Of course you don’t owe me an explanation but I’m curious because it’s an obvious choice you’ve made

 

[SIXTYNINEDUDES!]

I’m curious why you are choosing to use the preferred pronouns of the trans-identified people you are talking about even though they (plural) are most likely not even reading here, when you have described yourself as gender critical and presumably don’t believe in gender identity ideology.

I’m even more curious why you use them if they are just made up words to you. Do you feel it’s a kindness thing? Not harmful?

The post I quoted didn’t use she/her once and you’ve continued to use female pronouns when posting about trans-identified men.

Of course you don’t owe me an explanation but I’m curious because it’s an obvious choice you’ve made

I don't know another way to say "because it's meaningless". I feel like posters on this thread are trying to compel me the other way to prove my GC beliefs. I don't have to prove anything by my use of pronouns, I'll use any I like for anyone.

I love JKR. I've noticed a hardness creeping in to her posting lately. Maybe she's exhausted, maybe as another poster suggested this is always who she was and she's dropped the "dress how you please niceties"..

I also don't have an issue with trans people who believe in single sex spaces and know that biology is real - buck angel is another example. Is the suggestion I hate them just because they identify as trans regardless of whether I agree with them? I don't agree that I should either.

I also don't believe children can be trans and I welcome the Cass report. I don't believe any male convicted or awaiting charges for a sex offence should be allowed to demand being out in a women's prison.

Is there no room for minor differences in this thread? It's hate all trans people and deliberately misgender them or get out?

I thought this thread was better than that, but maybe it's changed since the earlier iterations.

 

[MmmB777]

I love her

 

[Peachsquish]

I don't know another way to say "because it's meaningless". I feel like posters on this thread are trying to compel me the other way to prove my GC beliefs. I don't have to prove anything by my use of pronouns, I'll use any I like for anyone.

I love JKR. I've noticed a hardness creeping in to her posting lately. Maybe she's exhausted, maybe as another poster suggested this is always who she was and she's dropped the "dress how you please niceties"..

I also don't have an issue with trans people who believe in single sex spaces and know that biology is real - buck angel is another example. Is the suggestion I hate them just because they identify as trans regardless of whether I agree with them? I don't agree that I should either.

I also don't believe children can be trans and I welcome the Cass report. I don't believe any male convicted or awaiting charges for a sex offence should be allowed to demand being out in a women's prison.

Is there no room for minor differences in this thread? It's hate all trans people and deliberately misgender them or get out?

I thought this thread was better than that, but maybe it's changed since the earlier iterations.

Of perhaps she's just sick of the need to praise trans people to the skies for the simplest of things.
Clark became a manager after being a referee something that has been done many times before, the only difference is that because Clark is trans we all have to pretend that he is the most special football manager ever, rather than a cross dressing bloke.

Has a referee ever gone on to become a football manager? | The Knowledge

Plus: the lowest ranked FA Cup final; champions with the highest loss percentage; and how good was Sepp Blatter?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Metropolis]

All this talk of Debbie Hayton brings to mind Miranda Yardley, the transsexual who was taken to court some years ago by (I think) TRA Helen Islan, who worked for Mermaids, for a transgender hate crime, even though he was trans and she wasn’t. I think the case was thrown out. Anyone know what happened to him? While Hayton seems keen to remain in the limelight, Miranda seems to have faded into obscurity. Maybe he likes it that way.

 

[Tofino]

I don't know another way to say "because it's meaningless". I feel like posters on this thread are trying to compel me the other way to prove my GC beliefs. I don't have to prove anything by my use of pronouns, I'll use any I like for anyone.

I love JKR. I've noticed a hardness creeping in to her posting lately. Maybe she's exhausted, maybe as another poster suggested this is always who she was and she's dropped the "dress how you please niceties"..

I also don't have an issue with trans people who believe in single sex spaces and know that biology is real - buck angel is another example. Is the suggestion I hate them just because they identify as trans regardless of whether I agree with them? I don't agree that I should either.

I also don't believe children can be trans and I welcome the Cass report. I don't believe any male convicted or awaiting charges for a sex offence should be allowed to demand being out in a women's prison.

Is there no room for minor differences in this thread? It's hate all trans people and deliberately misgender them or get out?

I thought this thread was better than that, but maybe it's changed since the earlier iterations.

Do you think pronouns are meaningless when, for example, Scarlett Blake was referred to in news articles as a woman, she/her pronouns were used throughout, and his crime was recorded as a female crime? It wasn’t until he testified and said he was transgender that the media reported it.

Nobody is compelling you to do anything, just asking questions, but I’m just surprised a GC person can’t see the bigger picture with the issues around using preferred pronouns and why they are harmful. It changes the meaning of what is being said, because it’s meant to describe the sex of the person being discussed.

This article explains it better.

Pronouns are Rohypnol • Fair Play For Women

There’s a lot of chat around about pronouns right now. Specifically, ‘preferred’ pronouns. By which is usually meant, the pronouns a person would prefer.

fairplayforwomen.com

 

[maytoseptember]

I don't know another way to say "because it's meaningless". I feel like posters on this thread are trying to compel me the other way to prove my GC beliefs. I don't have to prove anything by my use of pronouns, I'll use any I like for anyone.

Language isn’t meaningless though. Every time you call Debbie Hatton she/her, and Barbie Thug they/them, you’re making a statement, whether you intend to or not. You’re saying men can be women, and some people are neither male nor female.

If you don’t believe that’s true, then you need to ask yourself whether pandering to the pronoun demands of fetishists and narcissists is the right thing to do.

 

[SIXTYNINEDUDES!]

Do you think pronouns are meaningless when, for example, Scarlett Blake was referred to in news articles as a woman, she/her pronouns were used throughout, and his crime was recorded as a female crime? It wasn’t until he testified and said he was transgender that the media reported it.

Nobody is compelling you to do anything, just asking questions, but I’m just surprised a GC person can’t see the bigger picture with the issues around using preferred pronouns and why they are harmful. It changes the meaning of what is being said, because it’s meant to describe the sex of the person being discussed.

This article explains it better.

Pronouns are Rohypnol • Fair Play For Women

There’s a lot of chat around about pronouns right now. Specifically, ‘preferred’ pronouns. By which is usually meant, the pronouns a person would prefer.

fairplayforwomen.com

You are trying to compel me.


My brain hears the word Debbie and wants to say she so I say she.

Your basically saying if I don't override my natural urge to say she when I hear Debbie I'm as bad as a rapist traumatising a rape victim or somehow supporting that.

Karen White is a rapist c**t. Scarlett Blake, Isla Bryson all rapists c**nts who can get in the bin.

If I want to say she in relation to Debbie Hayton (not a rapist that I know of) I will.

The irony of being attacked in a GC thread over and over again for "using the wrong pronouns" is not lost on me.
---

Language isn’t meaningless though. Every time you call Debbie Hatton she/her, and Barbie Thug they/them, you’re making a statement, whether you intend to or not. You’re saying men can be women, and some people are neither male nor female.

If you don’t believe that’s true, then you need to ask yourself whether pandering to the pronoun demands of fetishists and narcissists is the right thing to do.

I'm not pandering to anything. My brain thinks the name Debbie is female and that Bambie is an animals name. It's not that deep.

Maybe you need to reflect on why you take issue with being told "no debate" or being compelled to use pronouns, but yet you yourself really struggle not to have people completely capitulate to your own views or using different pronouns than feels natural to your own language pattern ?

 

[VC10]

I don't think the majority on here are anti-trans. People have to live their life as best they can- often under difficult circumstances- and if they feel , in their mindset, their " i.d." , that they are the opposite sex ( and there are people of both sexes that do , as we all know) then they have to make difficult decisions in life. Life is hard enough , sometimes, so I appreciate anguish or upset etc. Many trans do live their lives as the opposite Sex.


What I object to - catagorically- is a tiny minority trampling over Women's safe spaces,Legislative Rights and toilets, hospitals , and insisting on enabling twerking in schools and all the rest of it , in order to construct a new, enabling order for THEM at the cost of the Women Sex. And if anyone speaks out, or is worried, or has issues ( the vast majority) , then it's alright to threaten to punch them/ rape them/ kill them.

Or to deny/ railroad Biological Sex Chromosomes, DNA ,internal bodily organs etc etc , while genderwoo idiots clap them.


duck Off.


Cunts are cunts, and I'll call them a bleep for it.

Keep Men out of Women's spaces.