Gender Discussion #6

[judgejohndeed]

Would it ever be allowed ethically to happen? Even if it did it would be expensive and will never be the norm in terms of how people are conceived.
If women were liberated from the reproductive burden who knows what we could achieve?

I honestly don’t know. I’d like to say no. But who knows these days, fear of transphobia is already permeating healthcare. If these trials are refused, whoever refuses will be accused of being transphobic. If they succeed and it works, and it’s too expensive, we’ll be right back in the whole ‘we demand you fund our healthcare’ territory. I can see the argument now - they’ll say it’s discriminatory that the NHS funds IVF for straight couples but not ectogenesis for gay or trans people.
This could all be dismissed as catastrophising. I really hope so. But I’m not so sure anymore.

 

[Begborrowsteal]

I went to my GP about PMDD. I got told "its normal for women to struggle with their hormones. Exercise, eat well.." duck off. I dont even get a proper level of care for women only problems. They want to have babies, cool. Deal with the risks that come with it

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

Sorry for being thick, but what does minimum term mean? Minimum gestation period to live outside the womb? That's like, what, 23 weeks (guessing)? It's still premature which would potentially lead to lots of problems as it would be a prem baby.

The youngest baby to ever survive was Amillia Taylor at 21 weeks and six days - the doctors said that if she was born before 24 weeks they wouldn't intervene to try and keep her alive but they accidentally mis-read the date of (IVF) conception on the chart and the parents didn't correct them so they intervened and she survived. She was incredibly tiny (284g) - I've included a picture of her feet to show just how small but it's behind a spoiler tag as that could potentially trigger people...

Spoiler: Feet picture

 

[emmer_moans]

I feel all the rage today. (PMS related, possibly oooh how tRaNsPHoBic of me to say that )
What I will say is all this talking about wombs reminds me of the fact one of my relatives had to wait about 8 months on the semi-urgent waiting list for a hysterectomy for medical reasons, which indicates that there are so many women requiring medical help for issues relating to the female reproductive system, yet TRAs are soon expecting to have priority for transplant attempts. My relative was in quite bad pain and discomfort for months waiting for her operation. Future transplants had better not take priority and push down people with genuine medical needs further down lists. (On the other hand I think transplants would fail).

 

[Begborrowsteal]

I feel all the rage today. (PMS related, possibly oooh how tRaNsPHoBic of me to say that )
What I will say is all this talking about wombs reminds me of the fact one of my relatives had to wait about 8 months on the semi-urgent waiting list for a hysterectomy for medical reasons, which indicates that there are so many women requiring medical help for issues relating to the female reproductive system, yet TRAs are soon expecting to have priority for transplant attempts. My relative was in quite bad pain and discomfort for months waiting for her operation. Future transplants had better not take priority and push down people with genuine medical needs further down lists. (On the other hand I think transplants would fail).

Mate, wine and PMS, im definitely raging!

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

Yes, Trans Women Can Breastfeed — Here's How

Three trans women share their personal experiences with inducing lactation and breastfeeding.

www.them.us

A 56 year old transwoman taking drugs that are banned in their country for potentially causing heart damage in order to lactate and then donate that to mothers

Yup... that's enough internet for me tonight.

 

[judgejohndeed]

the doctors said that if she was born before 24 weeks they wouldn't intervene to try and keep her alive

I read an article about this today (which helpfully I can’t find now) about a couple whose baby was born at 23 weeks I think it was. The baby was breathing and alive though which apparently isn’t common, but the midwives and doctors wouldn’t do anything to help him because they had this blanket policy not to help under 24 weeks. An investigation showed the baby would have died regardless so no action was taken. But when you search this online it seems there’s lots of UK sources saying they should try to help babies born at 22 weeks onwards so this policy may have changed now (I can’t work it out, would have to check tomorrow when more awake)

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I read an article about this today (which helpfully I can’t find now) about a couple whose baby was born at 23 weeks I think it was. The baby was breathing and alive though which apparently isn’t common, but the midwives and doctors wouldn’t do anything to help him because they had this blanket policy not to help under 24 weeks. An investigation showed the baby would have died regardless so no action was taken. But when you search this online it seems there’s lots of UK sources saying they should try to help babies born at 22 weeks onwards so this policy may have changed now (I can’t work it out, would have to check tomorrow when more awake)

The case above was in America so I'm not sure if the rules have changed to 22 weeks in the UK now.

 

[skvallertant]

I read an article about this today (which helpfully I can’t find now) about a couple whose baby was born at 23 weeks I think it was. The baby was breathing and alive though which apparently isn’t common, but the midwives and doctors wouldn’t do anything to help him because they had this blanket policy not to help under 24 weeks. An investigation showed the baby would have died regardless so no action was taken. But when you search this online it seems there’s lots of UK sources saying they should try to help babies born at 22 weeks onwards so this policy may have changed now (I can’t work it out, would have to check tomorrow when more awake)

There's lots of legislation about this that is really outdated. When I was born in the 80s I was really premature and could have been legally aborted.

I hate the way these people talk about having kids as an easy thing. It's an immense strain on a body that's already designed to do it, let alone your weird dude hips that don't even stretch... Ffs. Sorry for being horrible but it makes me so angry. Also I was pregnant once and lost my baby at 8 weeks. I can honestly say that I've never felt so sick in my life. I felt awful. And then I lost my baby. These bleeps talking about uterus transplants need to check themselves. They're women hating bleeps.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[judgejohndeed]

There's lots of legislation about this that is really outdated. When I was born in the 80s I was really premature and could have been legally aborted.

I hate the way these people talk about having kids as an easy thing. It's an immense strain on a body that's already designed to do it, let alone your weird dude hips that don't even stretch... Ffs. Sorry for being horrible but it makes me so angry. Also I was pregnant once and lost my baby at 8 weeks. I can honestly say that I've never felt so sick in my life. I felt awful. And then I lost my baby. These bleeps talking about uterus transplants need to check themselves. They're women hating bleeps.

Sorry for the rant.

I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I totally agree, it’s a really hard thing for women’s bodies, that are designed to facilitate it, to go through. Let alone a male body. Plus lots of women become very ill and die during childbirth. Trying to use children to validate gender theory is disgusting.

It was this article that makes me wonder if the official guidance has changed - it mentions new guidance, but I’m not sure if it’s been implemented in hospitals etc yet

 

[skvallertant]

I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I totally agree, it’s a really hard thing for women’s bodies, that are designed to facilitate it, to go through. Let alone a male body. Plus lots of women become very ill and die during childbirth. Trying to use children to validate gender theory is disgusting.

It was this article that makes me wonder if the official guidance has changed - it mentions new guidance, but I’m not sure if it’s been implemented in hospitals etc yet

That's such lovely news. Also @judgejohndeed I always look out for your posts and likes. You're an absolute legend.

 

[Vee6]

Two of my friends had fourth degree tears. Years later they still have problems from that. Birth injuries are common. Not to mention the sacred bond between mother and child.

 

[Amelia99]

Sorry I think we’re talking at cross purposes! Artificial wombs wouldn’t allow transwomen to physically give birth themselves but people (not me - TRAs etc) say it’s a positive for transwomen and gay men because it means they don’t need to find someone willing to carry a baby for them - they would just need an egg donor, which is much more easily done, and use their own sperm

Yes we are . I had the wrong end of the stick. But really the whole false womb thing seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through for what is essentially a baby via another woman’s eggs. If it’s not about having their own biological baby and giving birth why not just use a surrogate?

 

[Begborrowsteal]

Two of my friends had fourth degree tears. Years later they still have problems from that. Birth injuries are common. Not to mention the sacred bond between mother and child.

I still have issues after an episiotomy and 2nd degree tear Took me an awful long time to bond with my son.

 

[Beverley Macker]

Would it ever be allowed ethically to happen? Even if it did it would be expensive and will never be the norm in terms of how people are conceived.
If women were liberated from the reproductive burden who knows what we could achieve?

They’ll just take it out of the women’s Heathcare budget, we don’t need smear tests anyway right?

 

[Notworthy]

I went to my GP about PMDD. I got told "its normal for women to struggle with their hormones. Exercise, eat well.." duck off. I dont even get a proper level of care for women only problems. They want to have babies, cool. Deal with the risks that come with it

The level of reserach for Women is a joke. Menopause gets 30 minutes during a GP's training, 30 bleeping minutes for something that's going to affect 50% of their patients at some point. When you look at the funding for Aids research it really pushes home how undervalued women are.

 

[emmer_moans]

The level of reserach for Women is a joke. Menopause gets 30 minutes during a GP's training, 30 bleeping minutes for something that's going to affect 50% of their patients at some point. When you look at the funding for Aids research it really pushes home how undervalued women are.

That’s appalling

 

[Libertine1975]

I don't get why some transwomen would want a womb. As others have said surely they would need to take anti-rejection medication for the rest of their lives as other people with transplants do, this is on top of the hormones they take. Also space would have to be made for the womb.

To actually use use transplanted or fake womb to actually carry a baby would require a hell of a lot of medical intervention. Changing of their hormones etc. Men's bodies aren't designed to grow a baby. Even if they had gone through surgery to create a tina it isn't a tina so even if a baby could be brought to term they would need a c section.

If more money is being spent on research into fake wombs than other issues which affect only women such as fibroids and endo and even the menopause then the world is truly ducked up.

 

[emmer_moans]

I don't get why some transwomen would want a womb. As others have said surely they would need to take anti-rejection medication for the rest of their lives as other people with transplants do, this is on top of the hormones they take. Also space would have to be made for the womb.

To actually use use transplanted or fake womb to actually carry a baby would require a hell of a lot of medical intervention. Changing of their hormones etc. Men's bodies aren't designed to grow a baby. Even if they had gone through surgery to create a tina it isn't a tina so even if a baby could be brought to term they would need a c section.

If more money is being spent on research into fake wombs than other issues which affect only women such as fibroids and endo and even the menopause then the world is truly ducked up.

Exactly, surely the womb works with the brain in terms of creating all the necessary life support like the amniotic fluid, immunity, growth stages etc? I’m no medic but it’s not just a case of having a sac for a baby to come out of, but all the fine balances of hormones and growth happening to create a life? How would a transplanted womb “know” how to gestate? It’s the whole female body, with brain, immune system, hormones etc that create the baby. Would a transplanted womb be able to support periods? I really doubt it. The womb is like a clock within a complex system. Cut it and transplant it, how can we say it will retain its abilities? This is why I can’t trust the sanity of people who say TWAW because it just doesn’t add up.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Honestly, talk of transplanting wombs just turns my stomach. It is so ducked up, Frankenstein monster stuff.