Gender Discussion #6

[Vee6]

I’m confident it will never successfully happen. And even if it did (which it won’t) women can still get pregnant.
Next I reckon they will try and convince very young trans men that it’s a good idea to have babies for poor trans women who just want to be mothers.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Transplants involve you having to suppress your immune system which means you raise your risk of other problems. You are always under the threat of rejection and it's hard enough for people get to find matches for kidneys etc.

Its not practical and I wouldn't recommend anyone putting themselves at such risk just so they can feel more like a woman.

 

[sephylily]

Transplants involve you having to suppress your immune system which means you raise your risk of other problems. You are always under the threat of rejection and it's hard enough for people get to find matches for kidneys etc.

Its not practical and I wouldn't recommend anyone putting themselves at such risk just so they can feel more like a woman.

who would actually be giving people their uteruses?

 

[Notworthy]

This makes me feel so sick. They really do see women as disposable. Women aren't people to these sickos. Just holes for bleeping (as someone said earlier in the thread) and making kids. God help those poor kids, especially if their kid is a "cis" woman.


ETA. I'm not a scientist, but would a transplanted uterus even be able to carry a child? I'm doubtful. There's so much more going on than just incubation ffs.

The problem is where the duck are they going to get the whole shebang from. Would it really be ethical transplanting a womb from a person on life support because lets face it, no woman is going to donate her womb altruistically to help a relative or friend out. It's one thing to give up a Kidney but a Womb?

 

[judgejohndeed]

I think it will be artificial wombs first. There is so much work going on around womb transplants and artificial wombs etc atm, it makes me feel ill that these come under ‘women’s health’ research streams. Meanwhile nothing as usual on endo, PCOS, ovarian cancer. Can’t even do the very basics of women’s health right and fake wombs is what they’re focusing on.

 

[Falkor]

I've said it before, I'll say it again - wombs are not plug'n'play, damn it! To continue the IT metaphor, there's a whole lot of complicated software and drivers sitting behind them.

 

[Vee6]

I just can’t see how an artificial womb would work though? I mean what it made from? How does it fit in the pelvis? How will it not be rejected by the host? And it’s not just a womb that’s needed for pregnancy it’s hormones, bones and organs that move around and accommodate the pregnancy.

Sometimes I feel like maybe all this is mother nature’s way of keeping the population down. Kids being sterilised, men spending time and money trying to reinvent the wheel and have artificial wombs. And every time I go on YouTube it recommends child free videos.

 

[Amelia99]

I just can’t see how an artificial womb would work though? I mean what it made from? How does it fit in the pelvis? How will it not be rejected by the host? And it’s not just a womb that’s needed for pregnancy it’s hormones, bones and organs that move around and accommodate the pregnancy.

Sometimes I feel like maybe all this is mother nature’s way of keeping the population down. Kids being sterilised, men spending time and money trying to reinvent the wheel and have artificial wombs. And every time I go on YouTube it recommends child free videos.

Yes I agree. Unless there are some major advances in science people not born as female will not be able to have children. A womb is only one part of the complex process and physiology involved in conceiving, carrying and giving birth to a baby. Right now they apparently haven’t really perfected the process of producing external sex organs in sex change surgery, let alone achieving functional internal organs - an infinitely more difficult task.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Google the Biobag. They did it with lambs in 2017. They all survived - no body needed. I don’t keep up with repro tech anymore so I don’t know if there’s been any advancements, but I don’t think they’re that far off. Scary isn’t it?

ETA the idea is to get a foetus to the minimum term needed before they can survive outside the womb, so no birth etc needed

 

[skvallertant]

Google the Biobag. They did it with lambs in 2017. They all survived - no body needed. I don’t keep up with repro tech anymore so I don’t know if there’s been any advancements, but I don’t think they’re that far off. Scary isn’t it?

ETA the idea is to get a foetus to the minimum term needed before they can survive outside the womb, so no birth etc needed

Sorry for being thick, but what does minimum term mean? Minimum gestation period to live outside the womb? That's like, what, 23 weeks (guessing)? It's still premature which would potentially lead to lots of problems as it would be a prem baby.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Sorry for being thick, but what does minimum term mean? Minimum gestation period to live outside the womb? That's like, what, 23 weeks (guessing)? It's still premature which would potentially lead to lots of problems as it would be a prem baby.

Oh I totally agree, please don’t get me wrong - I think it’s a terrible idea and highly unethical. I’m just saying they are working on it already and the whole point is that you won’t need someone to give birth etc. A few years back when I worked in a related area, they were saying they were ‘a few years off human trials’ with this technology so I don’t think it’ll be too much longer before they start trying. Which is also what I mean about the research funding, it’s being directed at this stuff when women’s health generally is vastly underfunded yet someone is paying for this..

 

[Amelia99]

But have they found a way to make a transgender female body produce eggs to be fertilized? Otherwise wouldn’t their womb just be used like that of a surrogate? So they woud not be able to have their own biological children which is what I understood was the aim.

Apologies if I’ve got that wrong.

 

[judgejohndeed]

But have they found a way to make a transgender female body produce eggs to be fertilized? Otherwise wouldn’t their womb just be used like that of a surrogate? So they woud not be able to have their own biological children which is what I understood was the aim.

Apologies if I’ve got that wrong.

Sorry I think we’re talking at cross purposes! Artificial wombs wouldn’t allow transwomen to physically give birth themselves but people (not me - TRAs etc) say it’s a positive for transwomen and gay men because it means they don’t need to find someone willing to carry a baby for them - they would just need an egg donor, which is much more easily done, and use their own sperm

 

[Begborrowsteal]

Thats bleeping vile. It goes beyond scary. Its bleeping insane.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Thats bleeping vile. It goes beyond scary. Its bleeping insane.

They seem to forget that at the end of all this they’re creating a child...it’s not a game, it’s a life

 

[Begborrowsteal]

They seem to forget that at the end of all this they’re creating a child...it’s not a game, it’s a life

Just.. wtf. Why, in this day and age, are women still viewed so bleeping lowly as just babymakers. See how far they'd get without us. Mentalists. Want to be seen as women yet dont bloody respect women. Wankers.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Just.. wtf. Why, in this day and age, are women still viewed so bleeping lowly as just babymakers. See how far they'd get without us. Mentalists. Want to be seen as women yet dont bloody respect women. Wankers.

I’m worried it will get even worse if artificial wombs take off. At the moment they think our only utility is the ability to have babies. If they find a way to do that without needing women, how will we be treated then? Even worse, surely?

 

[skvallertant]

Sorry for the potentially obvious question, but I'm a cis bi woman (a label that I've never had to go by until the last 3 years btw), and having worked in both the NHS and universities I've suddenly come across of lots of "woke" people. And I am talking suddenly. I feel really upset by all of it, but it's impossible to talk about anyone about it at work. Like the pronoun thing, I can get away with not saying my pronouns because it's a protected characteristic. For now. But I know that eventually they'll push it through. I'm a girl. I'm a girl. I was obviously born a girl and even though I wear mens clothes I'm still considered femme.

These ideologies are confusing and hurtful. I cry about it a lot.

Sorry for the brain dump. I'm an angry cis tomboy.

 

[Vee6]

I’m worried it will get even worse if artificial wombs take off. At the moment they think our only utility is the ability to have babies. If they find a way to do that without needing women, how will we be treated then? Even worse, surely?

Would it ever be allowed ethically to happen? Even if it did it would be expensive and will never be the norm in terms of how people are conceived.
If women were liberated from the reproductive burden who knows what we could achieve?

 

[Begborrowsteal]

I just cant, man. You dont just get to pick what bits of womanhood you like. duck that.