Gender Discussion #6

[IndominusRex]

Oh diddums sam. Women are out here telling all their stories and you’re whining about not being able to enter an award you shouldn’t win anyway unless there’s a crap whiny wanker category.

 

[maytoseptember]

Eddie Izzard presents as a man when it benefits him to present as a man. For example, acting jobs

How nice is must be to put on your cloak of male privilege when you need it, and save the lipstick and pencil skirts for your days off.

 

[Doc]

I personally don’t care about transgenderism per se. People should be free to express themselves however they wish.

What I care about:
1) Biology denial (sports, criminal activity)
2) Puberty blockers for children
3) Women and girls safety and rights to be segregated from biological men
4) Erasure of sex specific language

I have heard a lot this week, “yes we know all men aren’t going to abuse us, but how do we know which ones?”

Well I feel the same about transwomen. Yes, I know not all transwomen have autogynephilia, but how can I tell the ones that have genuine dysphoria from the ones that fetishise cosplaying as a woman?

 

[2020two]

I am a "peak trans" GC! Thanks to the queen herself - JKR. So I haven't been GC a year yet. My long-term ex partner was non-binary and JKR really shook me. We started having daily arguments where he would tell me I must be transphobic if I don't include the most marginalised women (trans) in my feminism and that yes trans women understand what it's like to be women. I felt really belittled by him, he acted as if my experience of endo, miscarriage and emergency C section (resulting in PTSD) was nothing and of course a woman with a penis could understand all that.

He was disgusted at me, would scream in my face and I spent many nights crying myself to sleep on the sofa simply because I believed only women menstruate. I soon realised that I wasn't sure about the NB business - he was typically male, top earner, enjoyed all the privilege just liked ladies things. He said I was denying his existence when I said I was having a real crisis of gender understanding and that I wasn't sure NB was legit. I actually ended up emailing JKR to thank her - if it wasn't for her I wouldn't have noticed the abuse for potentially a long time. If it wasn't for her changing my views - I wouldn't have disgusted my partner enough to want to leave me. Thanks to much therapy and support I came to realise he was in fact raping me and using BDSM as an excuse and I feel really lucky to have escaped.

So that's my story! So happy to be where I am, and to know I'm not alone in what I believe in. Thank God for JK

 

[Libertine1975]

Feel free to continue

Sam Smith has been excluded from the gendered categories at the Brit Awards.

A Brit awards spokesperson later responded, saying: “Sam is an extraordinary British artist and we agree with what they have said today. The Brits are committed to evolving the show and the gendered categories are very much under review. But any changes made to be more inclusive need to be just that - if a change unintentionally leads to less inclusion then it risks being counterproductive to diversity and equality. We need to consult more widely before changes are made to make sure we get it right.”

The 28-year-old took to Instagram on Thursday where they told their followers they look forward to 'a time where awards can be reflective of the society we live in'.

Sam Smith excluded from gendered categories at 2021 Brit awards

Solo male and solo female categories mean no room for chart-topping non-binary singer, who calls for awards to reflect society

www.theguardian.com

What do we all think?

The whole reason they have categories for male and female artists is because so systemic sexism and women being under represented.

We have gendered sports and athletics because women can't compete against men physically.

I've said before I don't understand non-binary. There isn't a third sex you are male or female. If you are a man and you want to wear a dress and make up, fine.

 

[Doc]

@Jawge, I wanted to answer your question.

A woman is an adult, human female. So what’s a female you may ask? Well, sex cells in a human body are binary - determined by gametes. Therefore a person’s sex (male or female) is literally down to what sex cells they have. There are no in-between gametes. It’s nothing per se to do with genitals, or chromosomes, or hormones. Just gametes.

However, this building block is then layered with a hormonal profile which further solidifies other physical, sex-based differences (of which there is typically commonality but of course also exceptions).

Gametes are not a matter of bad science, or opinion. They are empirically proven. That basically means they are a fact, using repeatable, careful
observation, testing and experiment.

So now we have a basic, scientific explanation of the female sex. That’s why even after hormones, and chopping and adding, trans people will never actually scientifically be the sex they “feel” they are.

The second point I guess is gender. I have sympathy for gender dysphorics. It must be shit feeling like your body isn’t what it should be and of course they deserve basic human dignity and understanding. But I personally do not believe that is a reason to play along with their assertions as it does have a huge impact on society, all thoroughly discussed in these threads. In fact, it is tyrannical to demand that someone concedes to something that is just not true. What progressive wants tyranny? Really?

ETA: I could literally write a novel on my thoughts so tried to condense, happy to expand on any of the above.

 

[HoGi]

This might be dumb but I didn’t realise you could have had the op in the 60s, I thought medicine and medical procedures for gender reassignment was a relatively new thing.

Eddie Izzard is talking about how their gender is ‘elastic’ and goes from boy to girl mode. I find that quite interesting, is it a case of them waking up and feeling more feminine one day and more masculine the next?

This is what annoys me. He clearly doesn't have gender dysphoria if some days he is happily in "boy mode". Why can't a man wear a dress? Have long hair? Wear make up? Why is he suddenly a woman for doing those things? I'm not wearing a dress today or wearing make up, does that make me a man today?

This is one reason why self ID scares me

 

[emmer_moans]

Welp, clicked on this thread out of interest and swiftly grampa simpsoning my way out again. What an absolute mess.

I never knew how obsessed so many people are over other peoples' genitals, good lord

Go on, grandpa simpson your way out, if you can’t understand there is legitimate concern about womens rights and identity and misogyny, then, yeh go hide in the bushes. This is a thread for those of us who want to discuss, if you are just coming here simply to reprimand us then that says more about you than us.

 

[emmer_moans]

No, but it's obviously very important for this person that they do look 'female'. I don't personally care what any woman looks like tbh

It may be important to them to ‘look female’ but it’s far more important for women to keep spaces that protect them on the basis of sex - e.g. womens shelters, womens discussion forums, and in my view, far more important for women to keep their own language and not have to change everything in order to validate a person who thinks they are a woman but actually isnt. Gender and sex are different . Sex is immutable but a lot of people are trying to gaslight us into pretending sex doesn’t exist. But if biological sex doesn’t exist, how are any of us born? We are not single sex fungi that can reproduce ourselves. Humans are born as male or female. Males are typically more physically advantaged. Look at sports stats, rape stats, pay gap stats etc etc. Women are systematically disadvantaged because of our biology. Gender comes in and reinforces stereotypes but pink dresses and lipstick do not make a woman, therfore a man - who has enjoyed better pay, better freedoms and less fear of rape and violence from the opposite sex - deciding to wear a dress and ‘look female’ is not a biological woman. They can act feminine, but they are not born female and cannot actually become female just because of surgery, or self-ID. So many de-trans people out there are testimony to the biological fact that pretending to be the opposite sex does not actually mean truth. A lot of de-trans people find that the illusion doesn’t actually solve the dysphoria.

As a woman - an adult female human - it is important to me to:-

(1) be respected as a human and not by gender stereotypes
(2) however, be afforded sex based protections because society makes womens lives more vulnerable (note: I dont want victimhood, I want respect and protection in crisis shelters)
(3) live in a world where i wont be cancelled, lose my job or friends because i say biology exists and women need safety
(4) not have sex based vocabulary taken away from how I express and make sense of my existence.

If you bothered to read the previous threads you would see we keep coming around to the notion that a third safe place for trans people would be ideal, rather than forcing 98% of women to accept access for transwomen with penises into our changing rooms, toilets etc which girls and teenage girls also use. At the moment 98% of women are being called TERFs and being chastised and hated because a minority of less than 2% of trans identified people insist on every word of biological language to change, to validate them. Yes some women and businesses are flying the TWAW banner too, but they shouldn’t claim to speak for all women.

At the end of the day, my opinions are not hate directed towards individual people who are trans - it’s more dismay at the ideology that ultimately enourages more men to encroach on womens’ safety. It really is far more serious than a man feeling like a woman.

Edited for typos

 

[Dot_Cotton]

Sam Smith is a bell end. Who’s arsed if Sam is nominated for an award of not. Most people are more bothered about Sarah and the women’s movement in general atm. Do one Sam.

 

[AlanBanan]

I remember a friend explaining that their friend is pansexual but also demisexual!

I asked them what is demisexuality? They explained that it’s a term for people who will only sleep with someone after they’ve got to know them and have developed romantic feelings for them. And I was like “But that’s what normal people do?”

They create a name for everything just so they can feel special. It’s beyond ridiculous.

 

[AlanBanan]

I used to avoid this thread like the plague. But due to interest I’ve decided to read and I think I love you all a bit more.

Yelling transphobes fuck off while attacking someone for highlighting the basic English language and that children cannot consent.... And they don't see that they're the problem? This is scary and seems so backwards.

I wanted to buy a protect women's spaces t shirt but not sure it's worth being assaulted or killed over!

Children aren’t old enough to have a smoke, children aren’t old enough to vote, children aren’t old enough to have a drink but heyyy let’s pump them full of hormones and perform irreversible surgeries on them as they know best!

anything to feel special

 

[thegirlscout]

In regards to the Sam Smith and Eddie Izzard news I think it’s rather distasteful that on a week that has had to focus on the high rate of women being murdered by men, the victims are essentially having to share the spotlight (for want of a better word) with two people who were born men. It’s like we can’t even have our own tragedy, it somehow has to be shared or ends up being used by the female trans community.

 

[Aquamarina]

She's full of the woke catchphrases; 'educate yourself' is a favourite. I can only hope that she can see how things fall sooner rather than later, but for now the atmosphere in the house right now is decidedly frosty.

Perhaps discussing the tragic case of Sarah Everard with her may be a way of broaching the importance of women only spaces and the difficulty of differentiating between ‘good’ men and ‘bad’ men. How can we tell which men are ‘good’ and which men are ‘bad?’ How might this extend to women’s spaces and allowing men who ‘identify’ as women to use them. Ask her how she thinks women and girls can have safe spaces where they can undress/ swim etc away from ‘bad’ men.

How about women with religious beliefs that require them to only use single sex spaces outside of the home? Does she think that brown, Muslim women should be forced to share their spaces with men if it goes against their religious beliefs? That might get her thinking, as many religious people are of different ethnicities.

Also reference Rachel Dolezal and explain to her why she was vilified for pretending to be African American when she is a Caucasian woman. Ask your daughter why it’s unacceptable for Dolezal to claim that she is black, yet seemingly acceptable for men like Eddie Izzard to appropriate womanhood. Why is pretending to be another race unacceptable, but pretending to be a woman celebrated? What’s the difference between the two? Ask her to explain why she thinks this is the case. Again, hopefully this might get her thinking a little.

I am aware that many young people these days live their lives on social media and social media companies are heavily financing and promulgating the trans agenda, so I imagine that she gets a lot of her information from there. All you can do as a parent is to guide her. My children are adults now and I’m very pleased that they are all gender critical, especially my daughter who is a proud rad fem like me.

 

[witchofwestbyfleet]

Do you mean girls who are living in desperate poverty? Girls faced with forced marriage as children? Girls at risk of FGM? Girls at risk of "honour"-based abuse? Girls with disabilities or complex medical needs? Girls facing physical or sexual abuse? No, none of these things, you mean boys who want to be seen as girls

 

[Platformcrocs]

I'm just catching up on the last few days and it seems I missed some drama... Yikes.

Others have said similar but someone being trans is not the issue. The issue is being told that I'm now a "cis" woman, person with a cervix, and that someone (let's face it, usually a man) can choose to say they're a woman by sticking on a wig and some lipstick. Oh, and that we should be putting pronouns in our email signatures.

The issue is TRAs forcing themselves into women's spaces. Having women's shelters shut down for not having the space or resources for trans women. Using Sarah Everard's death as a way to make it about them, when it never was. And this is always aimed at us as women, never men funnily enough. We're the ones who are told to make space. And rightly, we're sick of the BS.

 

[skvallertant]

Someone I went to school with (a girls school BTW) is now a transmasc non-binary (he/they). Said person has cut their hair, but still dresses like a woman, has a straight husband and gave birth to her kids. Fine, do whatever, just don't complain if you're misgendered by some random person on the street because it's confusing.

I don't know how people feel about this, but I've always been a tomboy (in my native Swedish pojkflicka which literally means boygirl ). That said, I've never felt not like a girl/woman even though I liked traditionally masculine pursuits and was "one of the lads". I wonder how many people transitioning are doing it because of traditional gender expectations rather than dysphoria. I know it's terrible to say, but, look at what these potentially disphoric teens have to look up to. In the mtf crowd it's almost always long hair, makeup, plastic surgery. The whole thing is a car crash.

 

[2020two]

Can gender critical attracted be a thing? I have just started dating someone new, and the real thing that did it for me was when he (not me!) brought up the TRA wokeness and how he liked JKR & radfems.

Compared to my bullshit non-binary ex I am in absolutely terfy heaven

 

[Vee6]

Ten years ago if you had told me someone would be asking me to explain how i can tell the difference between men and women on first sight i would never have believed it

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I'm sure all youth movements were insufferable in their own way but this feels like the most insufferable of all- no art, literature, music or anything that contributes to the cultural landscape, just endless navel gazing on a gender identity- and that's before you even look at the harmful effects of gender smegging ideology

And on another note, I just saw this tweet from Ash Clueless Sarkar



Sarah was none of the things mentioned. Stop using the death of a woman to push your trans ideology.