I was raised the same way, and I think the people you mentioned have a very ignorant way of thinking tbh. Playing with barbies doesn't make him less of a boy, it's when adults put genders on toys that's the problem.
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As a young child I played with my two boy cousins a lot, I took their cars, they took my dolls, we happily played with each other’s toys. My own son’s favourite toy as a toddler was a pushchair he borrowed from my sisters daughter when she came to play, my daughters favourite toy was a cement mixer. Let them play with what they want. One of my boys loved pink and sparkly stuff, he loved dressing up and looking pretty. We let him. It did no harm, he has grown into a well adjusted young man, despite the ‘fears’ expressed by certain relatives that it might ‘turn him the wrong way’
A lot of us were raised "without gender" - playing with both 'boys' toys and 'girls' toys. It seems to me that attitudes towards children seem more gendered than when I was a child. This is a good thread on children's clothing and the messages we send.
In way, I think gender is impossible to escape. You can protect your children from stereotypes as much as you can at home but it's much harder when children go to school, or have friends whose parents are entrenched in gendered thinking and tell them that things are just for 'boys' or 'girls'.
People who raise "theybies" are usually entrenched in gender ideology and it must be confusing for a child to grow up as a 'them'.
i think it's perfectly fine as long as it's their choice. i know a teacher who said that there was a child being raised as non-binary/with no gender in their class and they had a dress up day and the kid (a boy) turned up in a dress and they went around the class asking why people had chosen their outfits and when it got to the kid he said "i wanted to wear my superman costume but mum made me wear this!"
The mind boggles when people say toys/clothing can change a child's sexuality...I'm so glad you let your son do what he wanted and felt drawn to...its so important for children's mental health they're allowed to explore different things at a young age.As a young child I played with my two boy cousins a lot, I took their cars, they took my dolls, we happily played with each other’s toys. My own son’s favourite toy as a toddler was a pushchair he borrowed from my sisters daughter when she came to play, my daughters favourite toy was a cement mixer. Let them play with what they want. One of my boys loved pink and sparkly stuff, he loved dressing up and looking pretty. We let him. It did no harm, he has grown into a well adjusted young man, despite the ‘fears’ expressed by certain relatives that it might ‘turn him the wrong way’
If I was raising a child, I would want to raise them gender neutral and then, when they are old to enough to begin choosing for themselves, I would support that. Boy wants a barbie? fine. Girl wants trucks? fine. I hate the assumption that having a vagina = pink and ballet and a penis = blue and engineering. Load of bs.
I just watched the documentary on the trans couple having a baby via surrogacy. I completely agree with whoever got bad vibes off Jake. I found him quite mysognistic (like when he registered disappointment at having a girl because girls are pink and glitter.') I wasn't sure how I liked him shouting to the baby through the pregnant lady's tummy. I also didn't much like that the couple never seemed to extend a thought at to risks the lady was bringing on herself being pregnant - and then being pregnant in a pandemic. Like she's giving birth with an infectious disease swirling round that's killed many other late term women and this couple are going 'but we need to bond with the baby before it bonds with her.' I'm sorry to tell them that the baby has been in the lady's tummy for 9 months - it's already bonded with her.
I generally liked Hannah, and liked her parents, but Jake, as I said above, came across domineering and dismissive and a bit controlling.
I also found it odd when they started inferring all sorts of assumptions about the baby's personality when the baby's genitalia was revealed. As people who are technically victims of that, you'd have thought they'd know better.
When I was a kid people didn’t have a lot of money and I honestly don’t remember the pink/blue thing. My sisters and I had hand me downs of clothes and toys, whatever gender (I had my male cousin’s England football strip pjs 
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Sorry for how I'm definitely going to mangle what I'm about to say, but... I think people who push gender ideology on kids are sick. They're KIDS. The gender/sex thing insofar as it relates to the individual surely only raises its head when people hit puberty at least? Eta. When the person is thinking about it themselves and working out who they are by themself.
My mum was determined to bring me up without stereotypical girls clothes and toys, much easier in the 80s than now I think. And by the time I was about five I just wanted everything pink, long hair, dolls, a bright pink carpet and walls.
I have tried to do the same with my two daughters, comfy clothes - I always look in the ‘boys’ section, wide range of toys. And they both love pink and purple, my youngest will only wear dresses and they favour their dolls and baribes.
I like the idea of raising gender neutral children, but not when people don’t tel anyone the sex of their child that’s just daft.
I also like the idea of non binary, people should wear what they want. It loses me with denying the realities of biological sex and throwing a fit if people don’t use pronouns that make you ignore reality. We all have eyes we know who is male and female, we are biologically programmed to know. Having to ignore your instincts and pretend you don’t is a waste of time
I have tried to do the same with my two daughters, comfy clothes - I always look in the ‘boys’ section, wide range of toys. And they both love pink and purple, my youngest will only wear dresses and they favour their dolls and baribes.
I like the idea of raising gender neutral children, but not when people don’t tel anyone the sex of their child that’s just daft.
I also like the idea of non binary, people should wear what they want. It loses me with denying the realities of biological sex and throwing a fit if people don’t use pronouns that make you ignore reality. We all have eyes we know who is male and female, we are biologically programmed to know. Having to ignore your instincts and pretend you don’t is a waste of time
My parents longed for a girl so I was always dressed in pink. My sister when she was born had blue eyes so they used to dress her in blue tops, dresses etc. When I was old enough to pick my clothes I would gravitate towards playsuits, rompers, dungarees etc. but I hated mud, dirt, sport etc. was much happier inside reading or baking. My sister was a proper tomboy, loved climbing trees, always getting cuts and bruises and was adamant she wanted to be a builder when she grew up. Toy wise we loved barbies and dolls as much as we loved our toy post office, cars/road and farm. As adults we are both pretty stereotypical "girls" long hair, nails, make up, dresses etc. but equally love leggings and a hoodie!
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Like in the 70's you mean
My theory on this is that it really took off around the same time as finding out the sex of the baby before birth. Prior to that there was a lot of choice of gender neutral clothing for babies. When my Sister had her daughter I couldn't find anyhing that wasn't pink and we are not a pink family.
Definitely! I was born in the early 70s and wore lots of green, brown, orange and yellow as a child. I also wore my brothers and male cousins hand me downs. The whole pink for girls just wasn’t a thing back then.
Nearly all our clothes were gender neutral so they could be handed down. I did have 1 dress though
the Non Binary tit stems from a chap called Harry Benjamin who noticed many males and females are not completely male/female and their genetics were slightly 'off'. And some have disorders, etc. (that sex was a spectrum, hence why some men are a bit feminine, or some women are a bit boyish, maybe a bit outdated)
The original medical paper is interesting but was taken out of context to bolster this dumb non binary claim.
And the whole gender thing came a lot later, many doctors who treated transgender people saw it as a SEX issue, sex as in your sexual organ.
Hi everyone, I have been reading along since thread 1 with great interest and agreement but never seem able to articulate my thoughts as well as everyone else on here!
I know in a previous thread there was talk of a women’s refuge in ?Glasgow that had lost funding due to their commitment to it being a safe single sex space. Could anyone point me in the direction of this refuge? I was *almost* making a donation to the Reclaim These Streets campaign who are diverting money donated for legal costs to women’s charities when I found out (just in time) that they have committed to donating to trans inclusive charities. So disappointed that even in the current climate we’re experiencing that the trans agenda is still overriding everything! I would like my money to go somewhere else
Thanks, and keep up the great debates!
Edit to add: I’m not saying that for genuine trans people there isn’t a need for charitable support just that in this particular instance I want my money to go to support vulnerable women!
I know in a previous thread there was talk of a women’s refuge in ?Glasgow that had lost funding due to their commitment to it being a safe single sex space. Could anyone point me in the direction of this refuge? I was *almost* making a donation to the Reclaim These Streets campaign who are diverting money donated for legal costs to women’s charities when I found out (just in time) that they have committed to donating to trans inclusive charities. So disappointed that even in the current climate we’re experiencing that the trans agenda is still overriding everything! I would like my money to go somewhere else
Thanks, and keep up the great debates!Edit to add: I’m not saying that for genuine trans people there isn’t a need for charitable support just that in this particular instance I want my money to go to support vulnerable women!
My impression is that everything in the 70s was brown, orange and yellow.
Recollections may vary but that would be a safe assumptionMy impression is that everything in the 70s was brown, orange and yellow.
“Femmes” What a catch-all. You literally would never know who gets the money from them using that term.
www.google.co.uk
What a catch-all. You literally would never know who gets the money from them using that term.
Who Gets to Identify as 'Femme'?
'Femme' has always referred to feminine queer people. What happens when it's used outside those communities?
www.google.co.uk
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