Gender Discussion #55

[Sea]

In France there's uproar because for Miss France competition the winner, a woman - has short pixie hair instead of long mane and looks androgynous (looks stunning to me, hope she's not really a he!)

Yet its okay to crown men Miss. .Netherlands and Miss Portugal for the Miss Universe.
Why not just make title it Transuniverse.

Thank goodness we still don't have the show Mr&Mrs, would get messy! "So Mr I mean Mrs you're married to your Mrs, sorry my autocue says she is now a He, so is a Mr"

 

[DoraMaar]

While I agree that it’s insanity to blame the women (but not surprising that’s the route people have taken), I do think women should refuse to compete. By competing, you’re tacitly agreeing that it’s right for men to compete in female sports. I appreciate it’s nuanced because there’s money and opportunity at stake and not everyone has Laura Kenny’s profile, but if we continue to compete it looks like we are fine with it, surely?

In some cases the women have to compete because they will lose ranking places - and may lose sponsorship. Also, in the case of US colleges, competitors on sporting grants could lose their college places.

 

[Piff paff puff]

Surprised? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...s-accused-teach-trans-ideology-fact-children/

 

[Phil I Buster]

In some cases the women have to compete because they will lose ranking places - and may lose sponsorship. Also, in the case of US colleges, competitors on sporting grants could lose their college places.

again, why I said it’s nuanced. I specifically said there are implications and not everyone has Kenny’s profile. But tacit approval can be seen to condone it.

 

[PryingPenny]

I feel as though women in sports against TiMs are stuck in a losing game, they can't compete fairly any more and if they choose not to they are missing out on huge opportunities they have spent years of their lives preparing for. I feel as though saying "don't compete then" to them is quite victim blamey, because unless everyone chooses not to participate the race will still go on, and the outcome will be very similar. In something like a football match if a team decides not to play then the match can't go ahead, with individual competition it's much more difficult I would have thought.

 

[Metropolis]

In France there's uproar because for Miss France competition the winner, a woman - has short pixie hair instead of long mane and looks androgynous (looks stunning to me, hope she's not really a he!)

Yet its okay to crown men Miss. .Netherlands and Miss Portugal for the Miss Universe.
Why not just make title it Transuniverse.

Thank goodness we still don't have the show Mr&Mrs, would get messy! "So Mr I mean Mrs you're married to your Mrs, sorry my autocue says she is now a He, so is a Mr"

I saw this and really don’t get the hoo-ha at all. Putting aside my feelings about ‘beauty’ pageants, how is it that a woman with a short hairstyle is seen as diverse? The fact that people seem to be questioning whether women can be good looking without long hair is so regressive. Saying that short hair is ‘woke’ and that a short-haired winner was chosen for ‘inclusivity’ is mind-boggling. We are being pigeon-holed by narrow-minded conservatives (small c) as well as trans ideologists.

 

[Phil I Buster]

I feel as though women in sports against TiMs are stuck in a losing game, they can't compete fairly any more and if they choose not to they are missing out on huge opportunities they have spent years of their lives preparing for. I feel as though saying "don't compete then" to them is quite victim blamey, because unless everyone chooses not to participate the race will still go on, and the outcome will be very similar. In something like a football match if a team decides not to play then the match can't go ahead, with individual competition it's much more difficult I would have thought.

I am not victim blaming at all. I can see it may read that way, so apologies if it has been taken like that. I think there should be support in place, be it financial, political clout, whatever, to support women who rightly call out the unfairness of it. Because yes, it’s a losing battle. Add to that I imagine women scared to put their head above the parapet.

I got my uni blues when I was younger for hockey and the thought that a bloke could have joined the team and outplayed me and I’d have been expected to accept that is rightly unacceptable. There’s no good solution, but my apologies if what I wrote read as victim blaming

 

[Metropolis]

Spoiler: Completely irrelevant and off-topic but made me laugh

Has anyone else got this advert? I thought it was a bunch of cigarette butts in an ashtray and was like WTF? Then I saw it was bird seed

 

[Funny_bunny]

The whole Miss France thing shows how regressive thinking has become.
Women = long hair, dressing up, high heels and make up and so this woman presenting differently, appearance wise is questioned. So, gender is non binary but appearances are? So an weird guy in a wig, face full of makeup and size 11 stilettos is more of a woman than an actual female with XX chromosomes? I loathe beauty pageants and think they’re vile outdated sexist crap so probably not surprising that women are being done no favours here, but honestly I despair of the misogyny and woman bashing everywhere.

 

[VeniVidiVicki]

That’s interesting because I remember British Cycling surprisingly announced not allowing trans women to race against women - causing Emily Bridges to have a magazine tantrum - and I wondered if it was because some of the high profile women’s cyclists like 5 x Olympic champion Laura Kenny, told them they wouldn’t compete. She has just had a baby and is aiming for Paris 2024. I have no evidence of this, but I know from interviews she trains with the men to increase her speed and I just think she wouldn’t put up with this.

Loads of women threatened to pull out of a meet last year if Bridges was allowed to race

Female riders 'threatened boycott' if trans cyclist Emily Bridges was allowed to race

Transgender cyclist Emily Bridges has been blocked from competing in an upcoming women's cycling championship as claims emerged there was talk of a boycott by female riders.

www.lbc.co.uk

I suspect if our female cyclists weren’t as good as they are, they would have had much less influence over the authorities.

 

[PryingPenny]

I am not victim blaming at all. I can see it may read that way, so apologies if it has been taken like that. I think there should be support in place, be it financial, political clout, whatever, to support women who rightly call out the unfairness of it. Because yes, it’s a losing battle. Add to that I imagine women scared to put their head above the parapet.

I wasn't suggesting you were doing that, more the man on the original tweet/post. Really it's amazing someone like Sharon Davis is being so strident about what she thinks but there don't seem to be many blokes trying to back the women, I guess it doesn't affect them

 

[Milliemoo99]

I hope the mum pulled her child out of there immediately and told everyone what they said.

My child is due to start nursery at some point next year. I personally wouldn’t send my toddler to a nursery with male staff. Sorry to good, genuine male nursery workers but my priority will always be my child’s safety, not anyone else’s feelings. And it’s better odds for that if I don’t let her be looked after by unknown males. Most men aren’t child sex abusers but most child sex abusers are men

I dont think we should worry about male staff at a nursery. An awful lot of dads would be great in the role. Yes care should be taken re 'woke' policies and political correctness, and anyone who feels dodgy shouldnt be employed.

If you are talking about toiletting, its a complicated issue. Changing a child, or supervising them in a toilet should be a simple or matter of fact situation, Mums and dads, nans and grandads all need to be part of this, to make it natural and normal. Otherwise, what happens if dad or uncle takes the kids out for the day and needs to change the baby, or toddler who has spilt dinner all over themselves? You want children to learn to be independent and not get worried or fussed about it. Ive also met plenty of female staff, who dislike this part of their job, and who leave it to others, usually more experienced older staff! Especially with older or special needs children.
If you are asking about safeguarding, then thats another matter, issues arise because we dont trust each other, and there are too many scary stories in the media. You need enough staff around to be mindful of each other and the childrens individual needs. A mix between privacy and open doors for protection! Of course official checks matter, but on a daily basis, it amazes me when you read a story where a poor child has been abused for weeks or months in a setting, Why on earth werent other staff about to check and just oversea each other informally, and to raise the alarm?

 

[Scotch Mist]

Surprised? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...s-accused-teach-trans-ideology-fact-children/

Social workers have little choice over this matter. Like teachers I'm sure that there are many who are gender critical, but they work within a framework that has accepted gender ideology and it would be very difficult for them to not comply.

The child's needs are put first and that means that the Social worker has to accept the kid is non binary if they say so and to use their chosen names. If a Social worker made a stand against this and the child complained they would be reassigned a Social worker who would comply with their wishes.

 

[PryingPenny]

Social workers have little choice over this matter. Like teachers I'm sure that there are many who are gender critical, but they work within a framework that has accepted gender ideology and it would be very difficult for them to not comply.

The child's needs are put first and that means that the Social worker has to accept the kid is non binary if they say so and to use their chosen names. If a Social worker made a stand against this and the child complained they would be reassigned a Social worker who would comply with their wishes.

I worked in a linked service to social care and we had young people who were very confused, anxious, depressed, suicidal etc and were given a lot of help and support, as they should be, being in care is really tough. But there was one young woman who couldn't have a mobile phone as it was a risk to her being exploited, and they were told to give a phone to her or it would be against her human rights, and then she said she identified as a male and everyone sprung into action and affirmed this. This poor kid
was so mixed up and just going along with this stuff put her in more danger of harm. I know residential staff who were forced to allow young people to be picked up by abusers and who had to just take photos and report the number plates. It's horrendous, abusers know that looked after young people are more easily exploited because it is much harder to protect them within the bounds of the law.

 

[gimm3more]

I dont think we should worry about male staff at a nursery. An awful lot of dads would be great in the role. Yes care should be taken re 'woke' policies and political correctness, and anyone who feels dodgy shouldnt be employed.

If you are talking about toiletting, its a complicated issue. Changing a child, or supervising them in a toilet should be a simple or matter of fact situation, Mums and dads, nans and grandads all need to be part of this, to make it natural and normal. Otherwise, what happens if dad or uncle takes the kids out for the day and needs to change the baby, or toddler who has spilt dinner all over themselves? You want children to learn to be independent and not get worried or fussed about it. Ive also met plenty of female staff, who dislike this part of their job, and who leave it to others, usually more experienced older staff! Especially with older or special needs children.
If you are asking about safeguarding, then thats another matter, issues arise because we dont trust each other, and there are too many scary stories in the media. You need enough staff around to be mindful of each other and the childrens individual needs. A mix between privacy and open doors for protection! Of course official checks matter, but on a daily basis, it amazes me when you read a story where a poor child has been abused for weeks or months in a setting, Why on earth werent other staff about to check and just oversea each other informally, and to raise the alarm?

But there’s a difference between your kid’s dad or a trusted male relative doing that and a random man, especially if it’s an AGP perv. I mean just look at this:

 

[Tofino]

i think the issue with the nursery situation is a matter of consent. If we as adults are allowed to consent who does or does not provide intimate care for us, then that should apply to parents on behalf of their children. A nursery can have a policy that allows male staff to do the same care as all female staff that is not discriminatory towards male staff, but if an individual parent does not consent to a particular member of staff doing intimate care for their child then that should also be respected.

 

[Funny_bunny]

But there’s a difference between your kid’s dad or a trusted male relative doing that and a random man, especially if it’s an AGP perv. I mean just look at this:

One rule for everyone except them. it’s an absolute gift for for perverts to bypass safety checks completely. I know the politicians tell us it doesn’t happen but we all know it does.

 

[Tofino]

But there’s a difference between your kid’s dad or a trusted male relative doing that and a random man, especially if it’s an AGP perv. I mean just look at this:

what the actual duck…

 

[BlairWaldorf86]

And they say no one would claim to be trans to abuse the system

 

[SkippyDoo]

It’s often overlooked that the Gender Recognition Act 2004 made it an offence for person who has received information about trans status in an “official capacity” to disclose that to others. “Official capacity” is quite broadly defined to include being someone’s employer or potential employer, or providing professional services. There is no equivalent offence for revealing that someone is gay.

There are lots of layers of protection for trans individuals in the UK that were pushed for by pressure groups at the time (who were correctly guessing people wouldn’t realise all of what they were doing) that give the lie to the idea trans people are more oppressed or have fewer rights than anyone else. Let’s not forget regular gay people couldn’t marry for years after someone who claimed to be another sex could marry someone of the same sex. In many ways, trans rights have trumped gay rights for years and it seems to be continuing, despite the narrative pushed on social media.