Gender Discussion #54

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Although they say they will abandon self-id, they still plan to make the process of obtaining a gender recognition certificate ‘far simpler and less invasive, as well as continuing to ensure some single-sex services and places could only be accessed by biological women.’ Why only some? The implication is that we would still have to put up with TIMs in toilets and changing rooms. And who would decide which single-sex services should be protected and which shouldn’t? Service providers or new legislation? It’s all very wishy-washy.
 
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I’m glad the public have access to the truth if they want to see it but sadly I don’t think it will change any of that rhetoric for those that have always been on that train as it doesn’t fit their agenda. Even after everything that has been reported today, they can only focus on two things that the male defendant said. That were unpleasant but hardly comparable to some of the other horrific messages we’ve heard today that I won’t repeat here.
Unfortunately you’re right. I had a quick look at the thread (I won’t be reading it) and thought it was interesting that one poster still thinks it should be convicted as a hate crime, especially as one of the accused used the word ******.

But the kicker was they were surprised that the accused hadn’t been full of GC rhetoric but were instead warped by watching the kind of hardcore porn that GCs rail against. Well HUH 👀

One thing that surprises me the least about Brianna are the details of him being badly depressed and self harming. Meanwhile the family hoped they could make it all better by giving him expensive hair extensions. Poor, poor kid. Misery in life and the most horrific death.
 
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Although they say they will abandon self-id, they still plan to make the process of obtaining a gender recognition certificate ‘far simpler and less invasive, as well as continuing to ensure some single-sex services and places could only be accessed by biological women.’ Why only some? The implication is that we would still have to put up with TIMs in toilets and changing rooms. And who would decide which single-sex services should be protected and which shouldn’t? Service providers or new legislation? It’s all very wishy-washy.
"Wishy washy" just about sums up Labour's stance on basically everything over the last 5 years. I can't in good conscience vote Conservative, which leaves... nobody.
 
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Unfortunately you’re right. I had a quick look at the thread (I won’t be reading it) and thought it was interesting that one poster still thinks it should be convicted as a hate crime, especially as one of the accused used the word ******.

But the kicker was they were surprised that the accused hadn’t been full of GC rhetoric but were instead warped by watching the kind of hardcore porn that GCs rail against. Well HUH 👀

One thing that surprises me the least about Brianna are the details of him being badly depressed and self harming. Meanwhile the family hoped they could make it all better by giving him expensive hair extensions. Poor, poor kid. Misery in life and the most horrific death.
I do think the texts show actual transphobia - the one about “will it scream like a boy or a girl” for example.
BUT it doesn’t seem to have been the motive given they were also talking about killing others AND the cause was clearly from porn not from gender critical feminism 🙄
 
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I do think the texts show actual transphobia - the one about “will it scream like a boy or a girl” for example.
BUT it doesn’t seem to have been the motive given they were also talking about killing others AND the cause was clearly from porn not from gender critical feminism 🙄
That’s not transphobia though. Unless acknowledging that Brianna was a boy counts as transphobia?

If anything, it’s exactly the kind of twisted, dark curiosity I’d expect to come out of the mouth of a ducked up, twisted child murderer.
 
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One thing that surprises me the least about Brianna are the details of him being badly depressed and self harming. Meanwhile the family hoped they could make it all better by giving him expensive hair extensions. Poor, poor kid. Misery in life and the most horrific death.
I remember his instagram being highly sexualised too. Lots of posts glorifying daddy issues, drugs & just inappropriate content for any minor to be engaging with.
 
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That’s not transphobia though. Unless acknowledging that Brianna was a boy counts as transphobia?

If anything, it’s exactly the kind of twisted, dark curiosity I’d expect to come out of the mouth of a ducked up, twisted child murderer.
I think the “it” is pretty nasty.
 
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Just a few thoughts about Brianna as don’t want to derail and I’m on the dedicated thread. From what has been reported, it could have been any one of a number of kids they murdered. They had discussed and tried to lure others, Brianna was the one unlucky enough to take the bait. I don’t know whether that’s worse for the family (if it’s even possible to be worse), because they won’t be able to say “THAT’s the reason they chose Brianna, they killed her for being trans”. The truth is they killed any child they could. The boy in the case DID make nasty comments about Brianna gender but these seemed incidental to the other abhorrent things they said. One last thought, I’m sure the punishment for hate crime murder is more severe than other murders. Having said that, it’s also an alleged premeditated sadistic murder of a child. An adult convicted of that is eligible for a whole life order.
The TRAs of course won’t be told and continue to hold up this troubled child as some kind of martyr and it’s detracting from the actual issues here of teenagers mental health, dangers of the internet and knife crime.
 
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Just a few thoughts about Brianna as don’t want to derail and I’m on the dedicated thread. From what has been reported, it could have been any one of a number of kids they murdered. They had discussed and tried to lure others, Brianna was the one unlucky enough to take the bait. I don’t know whether that’s worse for the family (if it’s even possible to be worse), because they won’t be able to say “THAT’s the reason they chose Brianna, they killed her for being trans”. The truth is they killed any child they could. The boy in the case DID make nasty comments about Brianna gender but these seemed incidental to the other abhorrent things they said. One last thought, I’m sure the punishment for hate crime murder is more severe than other murders. Having said that, it’s also an alleged premeditated sadistic murder of a child. An adult convicted of that is eligible for a whole life order.
The TRAs of course won’t be told and continue to hold up this troubled child as some kind of martyr and it’s detracting from the actual issues here of teenagers mental health, dangers of the internet and knife crime.
Yes if it is tried as a hate crime then it is an aggravating factor for sentencing so would add to the minimum term. I don’t know if the judge has any discretion if the victim has a protected characteristic even if it’s not tried as a hate crime.

Again, not something that would be applied to men killing women as that’s not considered a hate crime 🙄
 
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It's pretty obvious the murder was not motivated by transphobia, isn't it? A list of several kids they wanted to kill, histories of violence etc, Brianna was unlucky but not killed because he was trans? Pretty sure if the kids had killed a girl for example nobody would be saying it was a hate crime against women, Brianna being trans seems like an additional and pretty much irrelevant factor tbh
 
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Yes I’m referring to the accused male not the poster here! Sorry for any confusion.
 
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I think they mean the fact the killers referred to BG as “it” - I think specifically the male child said that
Yeah so far it’s only the male defendant that’s been reported to say anything that people are shouting is transphobic and therefore must be a hate crime. Girl X has not been reported to even ‘misgender’ Brianna. I think this is another reason police/cps did not consider it a hate crime. It’s only one of the pair that made ‘hateful’ comments about Brianna’s identity.
 
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I’ve seen a few things where JK Rowling is referred to as “it” by TRAs…
I was just going to say the same. "It" is used to dehumanise anyone one wishes to dehumanise. I think it probably was transphobic in this context, but I also don't think the murder was motivated by anything to do with that. If anyone remembers his social media posts and the alleged reasons for his suspension/expulsion from school, Brianna was pretty disinhibited and desperate for validation, coupled with his own mental distress, making him a bit of an easy target. I think it's more likely the murderers acted on that vulnerability; he was easy to lure away and physically frail making him easy to overpower. What a life; what an end to his life. Poor soul.
 
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Brianna was pretty disinhibited and desperate for validation, coupled with his own mental distress, making him a bit of an easy target. I think it's more likely the murderers acted on that vulnerability; he was easy to lure away and physically frail making him easy to overpower. What a life; what an end to his life. Poor soul.
My thoughts exactly. A very mentally distressed, vulnerable kid, and it was that vulnerability that meant Brianna was the one they managed to lure first.
 
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