Gender Discussion #53

[DoraMaar]

This was posted on Mumsnet 6 years ago

 

[Lazarus]

I’m new to this thread. Hi.
It’s took me a while to arrive at the viewpoint I’m now at, which is probably GC.
I’m unhappy with the co-opting of women’s spaces for men, tired of seeing posts and comments on social media describe someone who has my views as right wing (I’m absolutely not) and tired of feeling like I can’t speak up and say I don’t want to use pronouns, don’t want gender neutral toilets and don’t want men in women only spaces. I’m not even really sure how arsed I am about the whole thing but wanted to share a recent experience.

someone I follow on Instagram shared a story which starts as a clip of a very normal, white, probably 12/14 woman shaking her thigh and talking about body positivity. It cuts then to a large black woman saying she’s TIRED of what she describes as non-fat women taking up space in the body positive movement. She’s tired of plus sized women having to fight for a space at the table only for smaller women to jump on the bandwagon. She goes on to mention how insecure and vulnerable some larger women feel and it’s been made worse by 12/14 women claiming to be body positive.

I commented on the original post to say I could see the point she was trying to make but that the 12/14 woman was entitled to feel confident and positive about her body too, but the analogy she used, I swapped 12/14 women and said my thoughts and feelings were the same but with men in Snag tights claiming to be women and co-opting women only spaces.
before I was blocked, i got a fair few negative comments calling me a rightwing TERF and saying I had no right to bring my bigotry onto this woman’s page.

I mean, has the world literally lost its collective mind?

 

[Funny_bunny]

I think it’s so clear that the whole TIM thing is nothing but a fetish when you realise it’s just a dressing up game to them. They love dressing up in short, tight or revealing clothes, high heels and caked in make up, but also love their dick even more. So many claim to be “lesbians”. No, they’re just weird straight men who like dressing up and still want to keep their favourite body part and have sex with actual females.

I have absolutely zero interest in sex, never have, never will but it’s something I consider private. People who know me in real life haven’t a clue as it’s no one’s business but mine. It’s not something I’d ever discuss with a doctor. Nothing to do with them, and I’m perfectly happy as I am. Stonewall can fuck off, and I deliberately would not use the “A” word as I want nothing to do with the alphabet soup gang.

 

[PryingPenny]

Porn is anti women. It is the farthest thing from empowering and it damages relationships and gives ridiculous expectations of what sex is.

 

[Scotch Mist]

 

[Vacuous]

You see,I don't think it is remotely difficult. You are male or female. Nothing you can do can ever change that fact. When they dig up your bones centuries from now, they will know. So instead of gaslighting, indulging and corroborating dysphoria we need to be clear and absolute. If you're a woman who wants to be a man, tough shit. Dress how you like, do any job you like, life how you choose but you're living it as a fundamental apriori truth of woman. This corrosive, hideous, dangerous and damaging utter fucking bullshit needs to stop. And I see that it is beginning to and that gives me hope!

 

[Metropolis]

Well I've read thread #2 and found the link to the original thread but wanted to pop back to the present to explain how I got here... I'm in the Popsy clothing group and there were some rumblings and someone mentioned this thread. It's a fairly innocuous group with clothes being sold and people posting about their lives but there are 2 trans women who posted about being in a relationship and you'd think they had cured world hunger with the acclaim and love being given to them. One subsequently left the group, perhaps because there's a HPesque design and they obviously have an issue with this (screenshot of their post in the group and their anti JKR rant below) even though the company haven't acknowledged the inspiration so JKR won't get a penny.

The other person is still very active in the group (I haven't included any of their content here but can be seen on the Popsy thread) and having read up a bit I now think they are AGP, posting very regularly, very self centred and, sorry to be harsh, not female presenting other than wearing a dress, and yet getting love and support left right and centre on how great they look. They don't. Nobody is willing to say 'you have thinning hair, it looks terrible at the front and we can see your nipples in almost every photo. Sad really, be a man who wears a dress if you want, but don't say that makes you a woman

Any middle-aged bloke wearing a unicorn dress with his hair in pigtails like a little girl is a walking red flag imo. Can’t believe people are falling over themselves to affirm him.

 

[Phil I Buster]

Attitude has been on a blocking spree, while hiding replies to the announcement of Dylan winning woman of the year. Someone shared this photo in the replies to the original tweet and I posted it on his thread; however I’m also posting here because it’s wonderful, apols if it has been shared before (I imagine it has)

 

[Scotch Mist]

I went to a party last night and got into a conversation with 2 gay guys. One of them said that his niece, who he had thought was a lesbian, was now trying to transition at a young age and how concerned he was about it. His partner said that he believed gay boys and lesbians were being transed. Both of them thought that you should only be able to transition when you reached the age of 21. Thank goodness for some sanity, at the beginning of the conversation I wasn't sure which way it would go.

 

[Padparadascha]

I'm very heartened to know that my CEO refers to Trans issues as "that shite" ans therefore it's unlikely that our D&I committee will start forcing email pronouns any time soon.

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

I've been in a menopause and mental health session this afternoon. We were treated to the fact that men experience menopause and also some trans and non-binary people too. Oh? Which trans and non-binary people are they? The fucking female ones. It's this kind of skipping over the facts that causes confusion. I reckon most people when they think "trans" think of the bepenised lot so for some people, that statement will be taken to mean transwoman experience menopause.

I nearly had to be taken out of the room for a lie down over the "male menopause" Funny how nobody mentioned it when women were happy to shut up and suffer in silence but as soon as women get comfortable talking about it, it's all "what about the men?" Does my fucking head in.

 

[lilhummus]

I'm pregnant again (yay!) and at my booking appointment my midwife asked for my preferred pronouns. I told her I don't have "preferred pronouns" and for her to write a note that the NHS should not be promoting gender ideology. She turned to me and said "I absolutely agree with you" which was nice because I braced myself for backlash

She also then asked "are you self-diagnosed with a mental disorder?" and I replied "are you asking me if I think I have a mental illness that has not been confirmed by a doctor?" to which she said she was and I was just in disbelief. People are assigning themselves mental illnesses to the point where the NHS now has to ask you if you've watched too many Tiktok videos and have now decided you have autism or ADHD.
---

Hi, new to this thread! Can't believe I haven't seen it before and am going to spend some time reading through the threads.
Its so nice to be reminded there are normal women still out here! I'm sick to the back teeth of seeing pervy men with pigtails wearing little girls dresses on tiktok saying 'tell me I'm not a real woman, I dare you'. And all the women who are validating them!! Why!

I find being in London and under 30 it's impossible to find women against gender ideology

 

[smellyfootballboots]

Hi everyone, new to this thread. I am breaking my self-imposed ban on ever posting my views on this subject on social media.

I refuse to use pronouns or tell anyone what "mine" are in emails. I will use "they", so as to not go out of my way to cause offense.

I do not believe in self- ID. I do not support the use of puberty blockers in children. I believe women's sport and single sex spaces should be exclusively for biological females. My almost-teen daughter likes wearing uggs and pumpkin Spiced lattes.

I feel so strongly about these matters that when the inevitable general election happens, I am giving serious thought to selling my soul to the devil. I am a centrist, who over the past 30-odd years of my voting live, have voted for every main English party at some time or other, although the tories have become abhorrent to me over the past 15 years at least. But sell my soul I would on this issue.

I decided to start reading up on how each party stands on the topic, and so far I have found this article, which has piqued my interest and may save my conscience when in the polling booth.

The Gender War Is Over in Britain

While upholding trans rights, the Labour Party disassociates itself from radical postmodern theories.

www.theatlantic.com

I am enjoying reading all your views.

I think this piece is written in hope of a compromise. Which, in my opinion cannot ever happen. You allow 1 man into 'Woman' it is no longer Woman, it is a mixed sex category.

You seem fresh to this topic (or at least to speaking about it) I am a good 10 years in. For me, this is how things have to end up:

1. Repeal the GRA
2. Cancel all GRC's or force them to show a sex and gender markers for those that want them.
3. Stop all legal fictions on passports/driving licences etc (which is essentially self ID through the back door).
4. No men in any women's spaces, ever.
5. Women must be allocated single sex facilities at all times.
6. No men on any women's shortlists.
6. No men to win awards and accolades set aside for Woman.
7. The return of women only categories at award ceremonies.
8. Include abuse of women into hate crime laws.
9. Ban the teaching of gender in schools.
10. Ban the promotion of gender in the media.
11. Ban all DEI managers.
12. Dismantle and defund Stonewall et al.
13. Stop all medical intervention for under 25's bar speaking therapy.
14. Stern financial and/or liberty punishments for people still promoting gender, particularly to children (BBC and the Guardian - we see you).
15. Make it illegal to take your children out of the country for 'gender' treatment.
16. Re-education for all public funded bodies on the importance of women in the work place.

If TRA's wish to campaign for men to be more accepting of their fellow men with identity issues, then that's up to them.
Women must reject the idea that a man is woman just because he says so and otherwise he gets hurty feels. Fuck that crap.

A man is a man, whether he likes it or not.

 

[Badirene]

Men stand with men even if they're arseholes but women very often are the opposite.

Men will stand by other men as it collectively preserves their power in society, women won't stand with other women as they know how vulnerable we are and how society as a whole will not support, protect or believe us, it's survival to throw other women under the bus, to separate ourselves from the focus of prey.

Also as pumpkin spice latte season is coming up, this tweet hits the nail on the head.

 

[Scotch Mist]

As we seem to be mainly women on this thread I found this comment on line written by a gay man and thought it was worth hearing the male perspective:

It’s far worse for women and, in particular, lesbians, because gay men won’t have to fend off hulking great autogynephiles and their very real male aggression and physicality. All we’ll have to contend with are deluded and irritating ‘fallopian dudes’ with all their lady-bits intact or with double mastectomy scars and a Frankenstein flesh tube cut from their forearm and grafted above their mons veneris. That and those weird Amish/Abe Lincoln beards and frog voices they all develop once the hormones kick in. Ladies, you don’t look in any way convincing and you are not remotely appealing to gay men.

 

[VeniVidiVicki]

Our head of EDI is a black woman who I’ve noticed has started using the word sex instead of gender quite a lot. She’s done a lot around race, sex, disability, religion and social mobility. And apart from Pride, I’ve never seen a whisper about T.

I think she’s great and she’s really changing a business which is dominated by white men.

As an aside, as part of the LGB community, the T has nothing to do with me.

 

[Padparadascha]

They 50+yo men who transition into women never want to look like women their age. They don't want to shop in M&S and pick up a nice challis blouse and matching cardi and some elasticated trousers. They want to look and act like teens, specifically teens in fetish style clothing. Brain rot from porn I think.

And even the best of them who try to pass, always find it impossible to tuck in that one thing that's a dead giveaway - their male entitlement.

 

[klarakluckbag]

My NHS workplace has just introduced a new computer system. When we book pregnant women in for antenatal care, we're given a "checklist" of questions that we should ask during their booking appointment. This includes obstetric and medical history, demographics, relationship status, including asking about DV, and now, several questions on gender. Pronouns are prominent, and there are questions on genitals, and whether or not these have been "enhanced" by surgery or hormones.
These questions aren't buried at the end of a long questionnaire, they're prominent and we're expected to enquire about pronouns even with women who speak very little, if any English.
I was talking about it with a much younger colleague today, she did some serious eye-rolling and said, "They're having a baby, of course they're women, what else would they be?"

 

[SkippyDoo]

I think it is the ultimate hypocrisy when a woman says she wants to become a man but then decides to do the ultimate act that only a woman can do...get pregnant and give birth...and then tries to pretend that she is a father.

Don’t forget. Triggered and dysphoric because baby’s birth certificate (child’s official document, not belonging to parent) says “mother.”

NOT triggered or dysphoric by gestating a child for nine months and giving birth (and in some cases having regular old heterosexual sex with a female body part to conceive said child).

All very believable and consistent and not a made-up trend, and definitely something we should be changing all our laws and norms for.

 

[Mr Krabs]

I love how people assume biology is just like building a Lego person. Like you can just stick a womb in a man and he’ll get pregnant. Don’t have a vagina? Just stick any old tube in there and it’ll become one.

Source: trust me bro.