Gender Discussion #40

[Milliemoo99]

Does Roald Dahl (from the grave) consent to his intellectual property being tampered with?!

If I were a parent right now i’d be buying second hand versions of the original classic kids books, so that I could have a selection of proper kids books for them to read rather than these 1984 like redcated/censored doctored versions.

I think its dreadful to tamper with Roald Dahls books, for all sorts of reasons, but mainly because of the fairy tale factor, which a lot of his stories contain.
Roald Dahls books aren't brilliantly written, they can be cruel in places, but they are funny and they are good stories, perfect to encourage children to read! I don't think many children or adults would actually see the Roald Dahl stories as real, they are full of nasty horrible baddies who are evil and sympathetic heroes who can do no wrong.
Fairy tales were partially written or told to scare children and to keep them safe, all the kind of don't wander off into the woods, as you don't know who might be there.... Partly written to make children believe in a better life, but to also believe that its important to be kind and know how to behave well at times. eg You dont want to tell lies and end up like Pinnochio kind of thing! They are sanitized cautionary tales, which need an element of fear to work, even if its imagined fear! They need nasty baddies that nasty things happen to, to see good overcoming evil!

The whole point of characters like Augustus Gloop is that he is meant to be a caricature of a child who is greedy and fat, that he has indulged himself in far too much chocolate and sweet treats. That's meant to be a bad thing! And it is a bad thing, its totally unhealthy to be overweight as a child. If you change this you change the whole meaning and the whole point of the story!
The Twits is a nasty book, but, very funny, how on earth would you change this, without losing the whole point of the story? Its also a lovely short book, beloved by reluctant readers, cos they can finish it quickly!

I don't think changing the language of a book, is actually going to change the character of people or of children. There will always be sadly some who are picked on and some who live a charmed life. What matters is the tools and skills given to counteract and challenge this.
If a child is taught not to be racist or a bully or unkind to others, I think they are likely to be oblivious to most of the language in any case.

Whats next? will they sanitise Tales of the Unexpected? Or sanitise the horror film genre, in case they upset anyone?

 

[Cocobaby09]

I think its dreadful to tamper with Roald Dahls books, for all sorts of reasons, but mainly because of the fairy tale factor, which a lot of his stories contain.
Roald Dahls books aren't brilliantly written, they can be cruel in places, but they are funny and they are good stories, perfect to encourage children to read! I don't think many children or adults would actually see the Roald Dahl stories as real, they are full of nasty horrible baddies who are evil and sympathetic heroes who can do no wrong.
Fairy tales were partially written or told to scare children and to keep them safe, all the kind of don't wander off into the woods, as you don't know who might be there.... Partly written to make children believe in a better life, but to also believe that its important to be kind and know how to behave well at times. eg You dont want to tell lies and end up like Pinnochio kind of thing! They are sanitized cautionary tales, which need an element of fear to work, even if its imagined fear! They need nasty baddies that nasty things happen to, to see good overcoming evil!

The whole point of characters like Augustus Gloop is that he is meant to be a caricature of a child who is greedy and fat, that he has indulged himself in far too much chocolate and sweet treats. That's meant to be a bad thing! And it is a bad thing, its totally unhealthy to be overweight as a child. If you change this you change the whole meaning and the whole point of the story!
The Twits is a nasty book, but, very funny, how on earth would you change this, without losing the whole point of the story? Its also a lovely short book, beloved by reluctant readers, cos they can finish it quickly!

I don't think changing the language of a book, is actually going to change the character of people or of children. There will always be sadly some who are picked on and some who live a charmed life. What matters is the tools and skills given to counteract and challenge this.
If a child is taught not to be racist or a bully or unkind to others, I think they are likely to be oblivious to most of the language in any case.

Whats next? will they sanitise Tales of the Unexpected? Or sanitise the horror film genre, in case they upset anyone?

We did Lamb To The Slaughter at school, no doubt that’ll be tampered with as it’s a wife who lamps and kills her unfaithful husband with a frozen leg of lamb.

 

[Scotch Mist]

When it comes to books some will stand the test of time and become classics, and others will fall by the wayside because they were of their time and become quickly outdated. Enid Blyton had a good run but there's plenty of choice for children now so her books aren't likely to remain popular when there's so many others to choose from now.

I don't think Roald Dahl would be very happy about his books being edited. He didn't like the film made of 'Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory' (with Gene Wilder) as he thought it was overly sentimental

 

[Avenged7Fold]

In primary schools Ofsted pointed out in the last few years that children didn’t have a good enough understanding of archaic language because they were only reading authors like David Walliams and Tom Gates type books, so we were instructed to use older texts such as Stig of the Dump or the Railway Children, Secret Garden etc
There are difficulties with older books such as race and class and so as teachers we explain that. I shall be very interested to see what Ofsted thinks about all this sensitivity reading rubbish because those rewrites in the Dahl books just seemed like dumbing down as well as woke.

Agreed, nothing like limiting vocabulary by only having modern books. I read Enid Blyton when I was young and they seemed so terribly posh and not really relatable to me. I was old enough to know that their views as fictional characters didn’t necessarily fit in with my world.

 

[ScarlettOHaha]

I think its dreadful to tamper with Roald Dahls books, for all sorts of reasons, but mainly because of the fairy tale factor, which a lot of his stories contain.
Roald Dahls books aren't brilliantly written, they can be cruel in places, but they are funny and they are good stories, perfect to encourage children to read! I don't think many children or adults would actually see the Roald Dahl stories as real, they are full of nasty horrible baddies who are evil and sympathetic heroes who can do no wrong.
Fairy tales were partially written or told to scare children and to keep them safe, all the kind of don't wander off into the woods, as you don't know who might be there.... Partly written to make children believe in a better life, but to also believe that its important to be kind and know how to behave well at times. eg You dont want to tell lies and end up like Pinnochio kind of thing! They are sanitized cautionary tales, which need an element of fear to work, even if its imagined fear! They need nasty baddies that nasty things happen to, to see good overcoming evil!

The whole point of characters like Augustus Gloop is that he is meant to be a caricature of a child who is greedy and fat, that he has indulged himself in far too much chocolate and sweet treats. That's meant to be a bad thing! And it is a bad thing, its totally unhealthy to be overweight as a child. If you change this you change the whole meaning and the whole point of the story!
The Twits is a nasty book, but, very funny, how on earth would you change this, without losing the whole point of the story? Its also a lovely short book, beloved by reluctant readers, cos they can finish it quickly!

I don't think changing the language of a book, is actually going to change the character of people or of children. There will always be sadly some who are picked on and some who live a charmed life. What matters is the tools and skills given to counteract and challenge this.
If a child is taught not to be racist or a bully or unkind to others, I think they are likely to be oblivious to most of the language in any case.

Whats next? will they sanitise Tales of the Unexpected? Or sanitise the horror film genre, in case they upset anyone?

There are trigger warnings on 100s of books for university students! Why should we be warning 18yr olds aka adults of themes like suicide, rape, racism, or that they can skip modules if they wish, when they watch the worst kind of content on social media.
We are raising a generation of cry babies.

Trigger warnings will kill the university

Classic works of literature are not a threat to students’ welfare.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[MiamooMoo]

I would be offended as a cisginger(?!)

Aw sorry, we need to keep the ginger line going! I’ve a tinge of ginge when colour not fresh! But it was a cracking line in fairness. Much love to the original Ginger’s.
But anytime now I hear transgender all I’ll hear is cartman

 

[Ruby’s mum]

We did Lamb To The Slaughter at school, no doubt that’ll be tampered with as it’s a wife who lamps and kills her unfaithful husband with a frozen leg of lamb.

Is that the one where she then cooks the meat and feeds it to the police officers thus destroying the evidence? Wonderful story!

 

[Cocobaby09]

Is that the one where she then cooks the meat and feeds it to the police officers thus destroying the evidence? Wonderful story!

Yes! Was a great twist.

 

[Tired of this crap]

I’m so confused as to why a co worker would message you that - are you friends outside of work? If you don’t know what to say - I would say nothing. It’s just information to you, you don’t have to express an opinion if you don’t want to affirm or hurt feelings.

Yes someone I’m friendly with so it was within a larger message. I suppose I wanted to say ‘oh god how awful she’s been taken in by the cult’ but I didn’t.

Re the book thing… I think some books naturally become more old fashioned and less popular with time, such as Enid Blyton. I read them when I was young (25ish years ago) but I doubt my daughter would enjoy them as much now. Roald Dahl has brilliant stories but he doesn’t need his books editing so that they can last forever. Lots of his books have a nasty streak but that’s what’s fun about them.

Also why can’t we describe someone as fat if we can call someone else thin? Or bony? Or skinny? It’s stupid

 

[Sea]

I caught some of Woman's hour and the conversation was about tearing in childbirth.

The below midwife-now inventor was talking.

'Malene Hegenberger was tired of using her hands to hold back the vaginal wall, handling women’s delicate, damaged and bleeding tissue while she struggled to see what she was doing.

She set about the challenge of creating a solution. Four years and 88 prototypes later Malene is the first midwife for nearly 200 years to bring an obstetric device to market. She became only the second midwife in history to develop an obstetric device – the first being Marie Boivin who died 181 years ago in 1841'.

The highly significant point made by guest Marie Louise "the modern midwife" was why has women's health particularly maternity care been left behind? Why are new procedures researched and funded (eg knee replacements) but not women's health, why has it taken 200 years for a new birth device.

 

[maytoseptember]

The highly significant point made by guest Marie Louise "the modern midwife" was why has women's health particularly maternity care been left behind? Why are new procedures researched and funded (eg knee replacements) but not women's health, why has it taken 200 years for a new birth device.

Misogyny, pure and simple. It’s blatant.

There was a brief period on Tiktok (trends change so fast) with women discussing not being given pain relief for coil insertion, cervical biopsies etc because doctors told them the cervix has no nerve endings. Because the textbooks say the same. Obstetric forceps are literally medieval. This complete and utter resistance to modernise and change practice only happens in women’s health.

 

[Warriorqueen]

My 8 year old son told me he wants to become a girl yesterday. I was like smh oh ffs

 

[Fuel to the flame]

My 8 year old son told me he wants to become a girl yesterday. I was like smh oh ffs 

My 16yr old daughter told me she wanted to be a boy 3wks ago. A month previous she was non binary, before that a lesbian. I found her diary and yesterdays entry says she wants a m/m relationship... so shes a gay male now?!

Pray for me.

 

[Warriorqueen]

My 16yr old daughter told me she wanted to be a boy 3wks ago. A month previous she was non binary, before that a lesbian. I found her diary and yesterdays entry says she wants a m/m relationship... so shes a gay male now?!

Pray for me.

Last week my son wanted to be a ghostbuster. He spent a day playing with a girl on Saturday and now he wants to be one. Ffs I’m so pissed off this tit has reached my doorstep. If I find out someone put this into his head at school

 

[Fuel to the flame]

Last week my son wanted to be a ghostbuster. He spent a day playing with a girl on Saturday and now he wants to be one. Ffs I’m so pissed off this tit has reached my doorstep. If I find out someone put this into his head at school

My daughter has absolutely got it from so called friends at school. She told them she was lesbian and the first 3 messages these kids sent through to her, you know the ever so important supportive kinda girls that don't even text during the summer holidays, was links to binders and how to get one without telling your parents and trans "support" charities.

Personally I believe my girl is probably a lesbian but has got swept up with/by these crappy girls she hanging about with. They told her she'd look like an emo boy if she cut her hair off, so she did.. i mean really?! no mention of it before they said. I think it was down to jealousy as my daughter has stunning hair. She was throwing a hissy fit last week as the main girl she idols in this group now has a boyfriend after being a lesbian since she was 7! Shes spending less time with the group now and more time with this boy so hopefully I'll get my kid back soon.

 

[weeweegie]

Last week my son wanted to be a ghostbuster. He spent a day playing with a girl on Saturday and now he wants to be one. Ffs I’m so pissed off this tit has reached my doorstep. If I find out someone put this into his head at school

Don’t make a deal of it or mention it again (to him). Kids chat a load of nonsense. It’s when these parents jump on every word their kids say and take it serious is when it becomes a problem. Sure he’ll want to be an astronaut next week.

 

[Warriorqueen]

My daughter has absolutely got it from so called friends at school. She told them she was lesbian and the first 3 messages these kids sent through to her, you know the ever so important supportive kinda girls that don't even text during the summer holidays, was links to binders and how to get one without telling your parents and trans "support" charities.

Personally I believe my girl is probably a lesbian but has got swept up with/by these crappy girls she hanging about with. They told her she'd look like an emo boy if she cut her hair off, so she did.. i mean really?! no mention of it before they said. I think it was down to jealousy as my daughter has stunning hair. She was throwing a hissy fit last week as the main girl she idols in this group now has a boyfriend after being a lesbian since she was 7! Shes spending less time with the group now and more time with this boy so hopefully I'll get my kid back soon.

I also have a 16 year old boy. Under no illusions that he is gay, he’s kinda screamed it his whole life and I fully 100% support his choices but he has taken up with a trendy lesbian….who isn’t one /EMO/self harmer. She has almost god status in his mind and you do not dare criticize her. I’m keeping everything crossed that she doesn’t start the gender discussions with him. I already have a 16 year old niece who is gender neutral, changed her name (which every idiot in my family went along with) and is now killing herself every six weeks.

sending you lots of love, this is all so tough xx
---

Don’t make a deal of it or mention it again (to him). Kids chat a load of nonsense. It’s when these parents jump on every word their kids say and take it serious is when it becomes a problem. Sure he’ll want to be an astronaut next week.

I’ve played it right down and appeared unphased with him about it. Hoping my lack of shock will bore him.

 

[weeweegie]

My daughter has absolutely got it from so called friends at school. She told them she was lesbian and the first 3 messages these kids sent through to her, you know the ever so important supportive kinda girls that don't even text during the summer holidays, was links to binders and how to get one without telling your parents and trans "support" charities.

Personally I believe my girl is probably a lesbian but has got swept up with/by these crappy girls she hanging about with. They told her she'd look like an emo boy if she cut her hair off, so she did.. i mean really?! no mention of it before they said. I think it was down to jealousy as my daughter has stunning hair. She was throwing a hissy fit last week as the main girl she idols in this group now has a boyfriend after being a lesbian since she was 7! Shes spending less time with the group now and more time with this boy so hopefully I'll get my kid back soon.

Ask her what she thinks she can do as a boy that she can’t do as a girl. Because the answer is nothing! Sorry you’re dealing with this but it sounds like she’ll grow out if it. It is very much a trend/contagion.

 

[Warriorqueen]

Ask her what she thinks she can do as a boy that she can’t do as a girl. Because the answer is nothing! Sorry you’re dealing with this but it sounds like she’ll grow out if it. It is very much a trend/contagion.

I did this with my young one and then asked him to name his heroes…which were all male trying to make him realise he can just be ‘him’ and not what these cultists want to label him as.

 

[Fuel to the flame]

I also have a 16 year old boy. Under no illusions that he is gay, he’s kinda screamed it his whole life and I fully 100% support his choices but he has taken up with a trendy lesbian….who isn’t one /EMO/self harmer. She has almost god status in his mind and you do not dare criticize her. I’m keeping everything crossed that she doesn’t start the gender discussions with him. I already have a 16 year old niece who is gender neutral and killing herself every six weeks.

sending you lots of love, this is all so tough xx
---

I’ve played it right down and appeared unphased with him about it. Hoping my lack of shock will bore him.

It really is awful isn't it. I can't ever remember kids having such godly status when I was at school, I can't say a word against this friendship circle without being called a lot of names. I honestly don't believe there is any substance in any of this trans malarkey with my daughter as she is a different person in the summer holidays when she isn't seeing or speaking to these girls. 3 days before telling me she is indeed a boy now she went into town and bought herself a "really cute skirt" . The difference in those 3 days? One was at the end of 2 weeks half term break the other was a few days after being back with these kids. I also did the unphased acceptance with my daughter, we're 2 years in now..