Gender Discussion #35

[SueDoyou]

For me it’s a mixture of “I didn’t know her as a man” and also seeing her as a “genuine” transsexual… not just one of these people that self ID or decide on a whim to become a woman.

I get you, I like that. Thank you for explaining.

I wouldn't bother. I've never read such a pile of disingenuous, repetitive, ill-informed, manipulative drivel in all my life, with the crushing finale of 'thanks to everyone who said don't leave' like this is a bleeping chimp's tea party.

Nothing manipulative, entirely genuine. In response to what you were replying to, I posted the story of the gay man being beaten up wearing drag because someone had replied to me asking why it was so brave for a man to wear a dress in public, that it was them trying to take something from us. So I showed why, because the same men I think most women fear, would beat the tit out those effeminate men or trans women. It doesn’t take much to understand where I’m coming from, you don’t have to agree. I find common ground in a lot that you all say in here. Some I think are a lot more clouded by anger and I fully understand that and it’s not unwarranted to be angry with how we’ve been treated by the world. So when I thank people in here it’s mostly because I can tell they are coming at me with understanding, not agreement and that means a lot when it’s so heated

 

[eggsalafrancais]

I always remember her song as well and her performing it on CD UK! Remember that!

Can I ask why everyone so far has seemed comfortable using Nadia's chosen pro-nouns?

Yeah when you answer why you called Dylan a he in the Dylan thread

 

[Autumncolors]

I get you, I like that. Thank you for explaining.



Nothing manipulative, entirely genuine. In response to what you were replying to, I posted the story of the gay man being beaten up wearing drag because someone had replied to me asking why it was so brave for a man to wear a dress in public, that it was them trying to take something from us. So I showed why, because the same men I think most women fear, would beat the tit out those effeminate men or trans women. It doesn’t take much to understand where I’m coming from, you don’t have to agree. I find common ground in a lot that you all say in here. Some I think are a lot more clouded by anger and I fully understand that and it’s not unwarranted to be angry with how we’ve been treated by the world. So when I thank people in here it’s mostly because I can tell they are coming at me with understanding, not agreement and that means a lot when it’s so heated

You don’t even bother to reply to us. You switch to another subject. You mix up everything and accuse us of saying things we have never said. I suspect you of being a man doing drag actually. And I won’t bother replying anymore. And when nobody here answer your questions, you will accuse us of not wanting to chat with you. You will threaten to leave etc.

 

[SueDoyou]

Yeah when you answer why you called Dylan a he in the Dylan thread

She’s not the monster we all thought! Dylan is a funny one but it’s so performative and they’re so much older than they present their content. If Dylan were 16-19 in that baby faze of what they’re doing I think it would be a lot more understandable. What i can’t understand is why someone like that can’t recognise they are harming the trans community?

You don’t even bother to reply to us. You switch to another subject. You mix up everything and accuse us of saying things we have never said. I suspect you of being a man doing drag actually. And I won’t bother replying anymore. And when nobody here answer your questions, you will accuse us of not wanting to chat with you. You will threaten to leave etc.

I wish, I don’t think I’ve put on lipstick in about five years. Where have I accused you of saying anything you haven’t? Just because you don’t like what I’m saying doesn’t make it inflammatory. If I was a he trans activist you think I am would I not being going crazy over everything you’re saying and you’re all evil? I’m literally just posing questions and soaking up information

 

[Fabsolutely Blabulous]

And thats why its good to engage with people like myself rather than farting into the wind no?

Here in the USA, I bbelieve the correct response to this is "Mighty white of you".

 

[Autumncolors]

Thank you to the transexuals who protect women and children.

 

[Glortard]

The SNP being brilliant at writing laws again not

Nicola Sturgeon tries to throw out court case brought by feminists

It is 'wrong' to claim that human sex is determined at birth and cannot legally change, Scotland's highest court has been told.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thank you for that!



Farting into the wind as in existing in an echo chamber of no conversation with anyone with even a slight differing view. I know I've been critical, but not criticised in any harsh or offensive way. Just because someone comes at something from a different angle doesn't mean they are spitting at you. I am genuinely thankful for that list and let me be. It seems like anytime my opinions align with people in here I get 'Well then you're transphobic, they'd call you transphobic' and when I don't agree with certain things I'm suddenly being placed within your militant view of people who oppose you. Not everyone falls into the one category some of you give you opposition.



A lot of things I have seen in here seem to almost define the current state of being a woman as victimhood. Not specifically this post but elements of it. There seems to be a lot of disdain for what we've gone through and the anger is placed on trans women for trying to identify as someone that men have exploited for so many years. I've had some awful things happen in my life, as I am sure most of you have as women too but I've never seen being a victim as part of being a woman. Thats very sad but I can understand how someone could get there based on their experiences with men.




Because men... you do realise that effeminate men get trounced on by...men. Gay bashed, trans bashed, just bashed. One google, this happened yesterday in Ireland.

Popular Dublin drag queen left injured after homophobic attack in city centre

They were in a shop after a gig in the George when the men began to harass them

www.dublinlive.ie

I say thats brave, because there are bad men out there who would duck other men up for that behaviour. So yeah I do think it is brave for them.

Farting into the wind means it disappears whilst and echo chamber is something totally different. We are not an echo chamber as people disagree frequently in a nice way here

As a man here there are no woman defining being a woman as victimhood

For your victim in Ireland I could give you umpteen trans crimes in the UK but I am not going to bother as you never pay attention. However as a guy my early clubbing experience was the like of the Glasgow Tech and the cathouse - there where lots of weird and wonderful guys and none faced violence. The % of men that would seek out those that are different are miniscule based upon the statistics. I grew up in a city where the first question was what team you supported not what you looked like.

 

[BlairWaldorf86]

I’m literally just posing questions and soaking up information

I’ve just realised why your posts make me feel so uncomfortable and why you come across as a man. It’s not the job of women on this thread to educate you on these issues, yet you repeatedly act like it is. Go and do your own research instead of this disingenuous “what? I’m just asking questions” and come back when you’re ready to engage properly. Fine if you want to argue properly with us, but at the moment you’re just throwing out random word salad and silly questions. It’s tiresome and posters are wasting a lot of time on answering you. You come across as very entitled, which seems very, well… male.

 

[emm]

I agree, but I feel like that was also a product of the times. I remember she was the first time I had ever seen or heard of a trans person!! I was probably too young to be watching it though admittedly

Does anyone remember the reality dating show "there is something about miriam"? Things like that would (rightly) never be on TV now, there is a really interesting podcast that goes BTS the show which is fascinating

 

[rosemarina]

@BlairWaldorf86 Agreed, male.

Let’s all ignore/continue to ignore.

 

[weeweegie]

The reason we are all here chatting anonymously is because there are very few other places online you can do so without being screamed at for being transphobic. So as much as I like a bit of debate and love peaking people, I don’t really have the energy to answer questions we’ve gone over so many times.

Thankfully the wiki is there and anyone is free to grab a cuppa and sit and read through all our threads. Warning though - some content is not for the faint hearted.

ANYWAY, I found myself unable to resist replying to some fool on Instagram regarding the erasure of the word woman and mother on maternity policies and have found myself in a back and forth argument about my supposed gender identity. She keeps saying you identify as a woman and a mother, that’s great! After I said no, I don’t have a gender identity. My sex is female and I have a child. These are facts. She still came back to insist that woman and mother are ‘identities’ I choose! How the hell could I choose to be female? Pretty sure I was born this way. Honest to God, I am so annoyed at myself for engaging with someone like that.

 

[Autumncolors]

The reason we are all here chatting anonymously is because there are very few other places online you can do so without being screamed at for being transphobic. So as much as I like a bit of debate and love peaking people, I don’t really have the energy to answer questions we’ve gone over so many times.

Thankfully the wiki is there and anyone is free to grab a cuppa and sit and read through all our threads. Warning though - some content is not for the faint hearted.

ANYWAY, I found myself unable to resist replying to some fool on Instagram regarding the erasure of the word woman and mother on maternity policies and have found myself in a back and forth argument about my supposed gender identity. She keeps saying you identify as a woman and a mother, that’s great! After I said no, I don’t have a gender identity. My sex is female and I have a child. These are facts. She still came back to insist that woman and mother are ‘identities’ I choose! How the hell could I choose to be female? Pretty sure I was born this way. Honest to God, I am so annoyed at myself for engaging with someone like that.

If being a woman was an identity we choose, knowing how women are treated all around the world, nobody would choose to be one.
These TRAs are stupid.

 

[thinkofacoolname]

Someone I always think of in these discussions is Nadia from Big Brother years ago, she made no sign to anyone in the house that she was trans and just got on with it! She said it in her intro video and that was about it.

It’s so different these days with everyone shouting things from the rooftops. If you’re around a trans person, they MUST let you know every five minutes.

Edited to add I remember whenever someone got evicted Davina would do a big reveal that Nadia used to be a man and everyone would act shocked, apart from Victor who said the only two things you can see from space are the great wall of China and Nadia’s jaw

Yeah I remember Nadia as well, looked up to see what she was up to now and can’t believe how long ago it was! I don’t remember her drawing attention to the fact she was trans and I guess that made it easier for me to see her as her. I don’t remember her wanting special treatment (but to be fair she was on when BB was in its hey-day and we used to watch it in the local pub, so it’s a bit fuzzy).

As for the word queer… to me it doesn’t really mean anything. It just seems to be used by straight people in vague terms. Maybe it’s just what I’ve seen online but when anyone describes themselves as queer there’s usually a list of things the person ‘identifies’ as such as them/poly/agender/aro/ace/demi-whatever. I find that online it’s the people who describe themselves as queer are the ones that seem to be ignoring the fact that same and opposite sex attraction is a thing and lambasting anyone who states as much. I don’t know if the person themselves is insecure of their own sexuality and hence the queer label because then they aren’t tying themselves to anything, but then bi and pan are sexualities so isn’t queer just that?

Sorry I’ve lost my train of thought, I’m thinking g about what to have for dinner…

 

[ButtonDownTheHutches]

More nonsense on Snapchat. Trans female who basically now just looks like an aged masculine looking woman. Gender affirming haircut, can it GET any more reductive? It’s a hair cut! You can get this hair if you are a man or a woman, Jesus H CHRIST.

View attachment 1722355

Oi! Give Rick Astley’s hair back right now!!!

 

[Scotch Mist]

An overweight bloke just won a Miss America beauty pageant

The first trans winner of ‘Miss Greater Derry’ has put the misogyny of transgenderism on full display.

www.spiked-online.com

Seriously he's not even good looking
This is so ridiculous.

 

[17daize]

At the risk of farting into the wind. I’m thinking about TIMs who have grown up and been socialised as boys/men winning competitions/titles/accolades meant for women and the undertone being that the prizes have actually been created because women are less capable than men. Like they aren’t meaningful because of the barriers women face in achieving things in a patriarchal society because boys/men who haven’t faced those same barriers are apparently eligible because they just are women and that means… what? It’s obvious of course but not to the prize givers and society at large it seems.

 

[greenvelvet]

The Chinese Government is currently encouraging a backlash against women's rights in order to increase the birth rate, and points to Korea as an example of what supposedly happens when women get "too many" rights. In Japan people play on anti-Korean sentiment and say "we don't want feminism, that's a Korean thing."

I always admired Korean feminists for their anti-makeup activism. Beauty standards in Korea are really severe and there was a campaign some time ago when they posted videos destroying their makeup. Maybe it sounds silly but to me it was like, “We don’t care how much money we spent on this. It’s toxic and we want to get rid of it and don’t want anyone else to have it.”

An overweight bloke just won a Miss America beauty pageant

The first trans winner of ‘Miss Greater Derry’ has put the misogyny of transgenderism on full display.

www.spiked-online.com

Seriously he's not even good looking
This is so ridiculous.

Honestly like :-/ I’m glad this individual accepts and finds beauty in themselves, but to repeat what everyone else has said, can you imagine a fat, dark-skinned Asian woman with a double chin winning that contest? Like when do you ever see women look like the female equivalent of that win or even in “Miss _” contests

 

[emm]

I always admired Korean feminists for their anti-makeup activism. Beauty standards in Korea are really severe and there was a campaign some time ago when they posted videos destroying their makeup. Maybe it sounds silly but to me it was like, “We don’t care how much money we spent on this. It’s toxic and we want to get rid of it and don’t want anyone else to have it.”



Honestly like :-/ I’m glad this individual accepts and finds beauty in themselves, but to repeat what everyone else has said, can you imagine a fat, dark-skinned Asian woman with a double chin winning that contest? Like when do you ever see women look like the female equivalent of that win or even in “Miss _” contests

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the other women's dressing rooms talking about this. I disagree fundamentally with beauty pageants but the rewards (not sure for this one) can be insane, things like paying off school fees etc. So i do understand why women do them, again totally unfair to be basically out of the running regardless when a trans person runs. I gu2sa what qe are going to see now will be a competition of increasingly more trans contestants and women just drop out, the same as will be in sports events if the current trend continues

 

[Vanelope]

Queer is a slur that has been co opted by straight people to join in with Pride and the LGBTQ+ community without having to do any gay stuff.

LGB was a community that was formed because mainstream culture did not accept homosexuality. People created their fashions and clubs and places they could be themselves. By adding all the letters and all the made up letters especially Q - everyone can be part of it. It’s the ‘everyone is special so no one is’ conformity. It leads to social contagion where young people all want to join the cool club. And for actual LGB people - doesn’t it feel like everyone has joined your club and taken all the tables and left you without a place to sit?

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

What i can’t understand is why someone like that can’t recognise they are harming the trans community?

Dylan doesn't care about the trans community, or the gay community or women. Dylan cares about getting a constant source of fame, attention and money for himself.