Gender Discussion #22

[Falkor]

I've just been reading the full report. They made her remove her sanitary towel, bend over and spread her buttocks, with just the two policewomen in the room with her, no other appropriate adult, and her parents were not informed. That poor, poor girl.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Is there any other field of medicine where you can say, "give me the exact treatment I want or I'll kill myself" and it works?

 

[DottyP]

They really are. I’m increasingly of the opinion that a larger proportion of men than we would ever imagine actually hate us.

As the very intelligent Germaine Greer once said, 'women have no idea how much men hate them'. And she was 100% correct.

 

[Infernal Love]

I associate "Bleeders" with the horribly misogynistic 'joke' regarding "Not trusting anything that can bleed for a week and survive" that's plagued women since at least the 70's. Although in those days you knew Bernard Manning etc WERE sexists, now it's aimed at us from people expecting our business!

Imagine Andrex advertised by just saying "Hey Shitters, try this!" It's inconceivable in it's crassness at the very least.

 

[weeweegie]

So sad to be living in Scotland. Just looked at the shameonscotland hashtag on Twitter and oh my, it’s depressing. People calling us hateful, transphobic, bigots etc. Talk about gaslighting women who are concerned about the safety of women and girls. And a lot of the posts are from women. I’ll never understand how protecting women means you’re a transphobe. I have nothing against trans people, live how you want, I don’t care! I’m all for people who are gender non confirming, as a woman I don’t follow the stereotypes of wearing make up and dresses, it’s just not me. It does not make me a man. It does not make me non binary. I’m a woman and there is more than one way to be a woman.

Said it before but I’ve never been so glad I don’t have a daughter. I would worry for her out in the world. If girls say they are uncomfortable changing in front of a boy (who thinks he’s a girl), she will be gaslit and called a transphobe. How did we get here?

 

[judgejohndeed]

I appreciate that men don’t ‘want’ women in their toilets and that’s obviously legitimate, but for women it’s not just that we don’t want men there, it’s also about our safety. Men are unlikely to be in danger if women use their spaces, so it’s just not the same.

 

[nothanksbabes]

Imagine a world where a man telling women they're doing feminism wrong if they exclude men is considered progressive.

Lumping men in with working class women and women of colour shows just how racist and classist they are too.

 

[kittymeowlondon]

Part of what peaked me was that absolutely NO allowances are made for women who genuinely have no problem with trans people in general but don't want male bodies in their safe spaces, yet everyone else in society is being asked to bend over backward to accommodate every ask of the trans community. There is absolutely no give and take.

this is what i have always said and will continue to advocate for.
as a survivor of multiple SA incidents i have seen how important it is to keep women spaces for women
i went to swim after r*** once and was changing in womens changing room when i heard a mans voice
i froze
it was a trans woman
apparently me, a r*** survivor (a knife was pulled on me etc and i got it off the 5 men) is not allowed to ask for changing rooms to be for women only

in that same pool my stalker turned up while i was swimming so i went to changing rooms and told a fellow woman what was happening who helped me out
he got aggressive stangled me and punched me in the ribs at a pub where we were trying to alert security and get help
if he had been allowed in the womens changing room i would feel dramatically more unsafe

i support trans women, always.
i also support saving womens spaces and keeping them for women.
Why does that make me a bad person?

 

[katyazamo]

It's quite galling to see sex work being so openly promoted in the Echo. As someone else said, women aren't making money by "pretending to be a giant", if that woman has truly made £2m it'll be from many, many custom videos of all sorts, all of which being explicit porn.

Women will never win when it comes to prostitution and sex work. You might have the odd woman making big money, or a porn star who is able to set her own terms and rake in the cash. That's a handful of women out of hundreds of thousands, even millions who are involved in sex work. Prostitution and sex work by its nature is designed to keep women away from power and serve men. That's all it is. As we've always said on here, do you think trafficked women find prostitution empowering? No one is writing articles about how much money they're making, are they?

As for the woman in the Echo article, there will be countless men out there with custom videos she has made. Men use sex to exert their power. Do you think they'll care that she's made a bit of cash? It doesn't matter one bit because she's now a "whore" and men will never see her as anything other than that.

This is a lot for a Tuesday morning lol. But I'll admit it touches a nerve.

 

[Dot_Cotton]

According to these narcissists there is not a single situation in which trans people don't have it worse.

As if an invading army gives a flying fuck about your precious, narcissistic gender identity.

For a moment last night (a stupid moment clearly) I thought, this brings all of the gender nonsense into perspective and people will have more important things to think about than pushing the trans agenda, pronouns and feeling like a woman. I was obviously wrong.

 

[Scotch Mist]

Ugh just watching a programme on E4 when an advert for Teen First Dates comes on.
The girl is in the bathroom standing in front of the sinks ringing her friend saying she's not attracted to her date when all of sudden the camera angle changes and you can see the boy heading into the bathroom. Cue surprised girl and boy awkwardly saying hi as he goes in a cubicle.View attachment 1092021

As a mature adult I find it quite easy to ignore anyone else in a public toilet (trans or not) and I don't worry what anyone else thinks about me.

Teenagers on the other hand are very easily embarrassed and all are desperate for acceptance. Having mixed toilets is going to be far more problematic for young people than it is for older people. Girls will find it embarrassing to be found using the tampon machine if a boy walks in. It's also true that girls will gossip together in a toilet space (I remember doing that at school) and now that space has been taken away from them.

 

[FrannyGallops]

Not the VAGINA musuem being anti women again?! Stupid museum, didn't they do this last year too.

I generally try and ignore them, but yes, the Vagina museum, talking about men (who don’t have vaginas, even the ones who have surgery) and ignoring women who have actual vaginas on International WOMEN’S Day, because *some* people want trans womens stories to be ‘erased’ (apparently). The fucking irony There are 364 other days to talk about trans women and yet still…here we are.

 

[Gamu]

if I am being kind......part of me feels sad that poor Lia Thomas felt such awful gender dysphoria..that they had no choice but to start their transition. And if their choice to live as a different gender, didnt affect anyone else, I wouldnt really care at all.

But I am not sure how or why the mental health professionals advising Lia, suggested that she should still continue to swim competitively. Especially when swimming, her previous cis born natal male characteristics , of height, shoulders etc are so obvious. It cant be good for her mental health for this to be constantly commented on. Nor is it likely to be positive for the press to be talking about her still having her male penis whilst changing in the female changing rooms

But maybe this needs to be commented on....to allow for a proper handicap, similar to those used in horse racing , to alleviate the benefit of height shoulder size etc. Maybe lia should be competing with a time penalty or something like extra weights on a belt around her waist, to eliminate her natal birth advantages?

And as for toilets, whats the issue with continuing to have seperate male and female toilets, but just increase the number of disabled toilets, or family toilets, that can also be gender neutral?
My issue with same sex toilets, is that of cleanliness........if you ever work with small boys, they seem to delight in spraying urine everywhere, so single same sex toilets can be a real pain for getting a class of young children ready before lunch, ie whole class, does wash hands and go to the toilet........you have to check and clean up between each child. I would have thought adult men would have learnt better aim, but the smell in male toilets....would suggest not.

I’m done with being kind. There’s no “ poor Lia” he’s just a big entitled, smirking, cheating male unit who has no sense of fair play. I think you have some sympathy for him, carefully using the feminine pronouns and worrying about his well being, even to suggesting that women’s sport is changed to accommodate trans advantages.

I used to think a third option, gender neutral toilets would work. But it wouldn’t. TiM would mostly always want the women’s spaces for validation, for sexual arousal, for sexual assault.

 

[Jayceedove]

Thank you very much for all the kind support.

I have been talking about these things on line since before the rain fell and the mysteriously expanding 'transgender' umbrella opened up to allow multiple identities. LGB - LGBT - LGBTXYZ - you only have to see how it is like named storms that when you start running out of letters in the alphabet after not doing so for years that is a sign something concerning (climate change here) might be causing a major issue. You should then start asking why there is a gender climate change going on today.

Yet still nobody is asking the key questions - how and why did 5000 people become 500,000 over just 18 years after staying at 5000 since the first and then only UK clinic at Charing Cross opened up in the early 60s?

I recently saw a summary of the data from those years and it raised a red flag.They had around six thousand patients under therapy in around 20 years and progressed only about 10% of them to any kind of transition. And only about 3% of them (200 or so in 20 years) had reconstructive surgery. I was one of those 200 and - though I knew this in general terms as I had had years of thereapy explaining it and other attempts made to avoid moving to this step - was shocked to find these numbers so stark.

So about 3% were diagnosed transsexual out of what I guess now would be termed transgender patients coming to the then only clinic who had even got to the stage of seeking help as then you had to do this way. There was no community or internet, of course, and most knew nothing at all about what this huge family issue was as it was not on TV even and so sought help from doctors as just what anyone does when faced with a family dilemma like this.

Though we were all still offered several other ways to help first - quite rightly - and it took years to go through all the steps to find a less invasive ay forward and that sense surely should still be true. Even if, as in the 3%, it was in the end suspected that full transition was the only thing likely to work .

If those numbers are anything like applicable today - and why would they have changed if this is in any way a real rather than sociological issue -then it is scary to think how many are today being put on this pathway who never would have been in the 'bad' old days.

Yes, quite probably times have changed and social expectations ae different. But not to turn what was about 200 cases in 20 years in the 60s and 70s to maybe 20,000 (or more) now. It suggests that the 90 times as many cases who were being deterred as for whom transition was likely not the best way forward are a big driver in the sudden explosion.

I am not a doctor but surely someone is asking these questions like I am who is? Or are we just treating trans as if it is something that appeared out of nowhere since Twitter was launched?

 

[CheshireLove]

If you watch videos of the race, he is barely kicking. Just costing along while the WOMEN put their all into the race. He is a cheat. A man without shame

 

[FrannyGallops]

#nothankyou

 

[IndominusRex]

‘Trans kids’ are overwhelmingly a group that have suffered abuse before identifying as trans. Girls who want to be boys to escape sexual advances and boys who want to be girls to escape homophobia. If anything is likely to cause a high suicide risk in children it’s unnecessary surgery and untested drugs in a young person with untreated underlying trauma.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Since when does quoting someone else's opinion not add to your argument? I guess literally all academic scholarship should get in the bin then

 

[Vanelope]

Just seen on my tv an ad for the new ‘enough’ campaign to call out harassment, sexual assault and coercive control against women and girls. With a helpline. From the govt.

 

[eyespybs123]

Absolutely disgusting making a woman's death about the trans agenda