Gender Discussion #22

[holliebollie]

I’ve recently seen a job I would like to apply for, a gynae assistant but I’m actually too scared to write anything about wanting to help WOMEN in case I’m deemed as not inclusive enough. Should I just write ‘females’ even though I hate using it as a noun?! At least I know it would only be women there, as men don’t actually have gynae issues (despite some thinking they do )

 

[FrannyGallops]

How gender self-ID is being abused

Should the serial killer Harvey Marcelin be imprisoned with women?

unherd.com

I don’t know if this has already been shared, but it’s all kinds of ducked up.

As for ‘being born in the wrong body’, how is that even possible? It’s suggests a higher power made a mistake on the day of your birth/before you were even born. It’s total bull. No one knows what’s it’s like to be someone else, so how does one ‘feel’ like a member of the opposite sex. I mean, I feel like I should have been a size 6 supermodel. No one on earth is going to go, ‘yeah, your feelings are valid. Sign here for liposuction and we’re going to do everything we can to help you achieve that’. If I starved myself to minuscule proportions, I’d be sectioned, not encouraged to keep doing it. It’s totally a mental illness.

 

[CookieZippy]

This thread on Lia Thomas is a fascinating and scary read. Some of the stuff is unbelievable. The idea that sport is all about people winning because of natural physical advantages and if being born a transwoman gives Lia that advantage over the cis women than its just tough and the cis women just need to swim better. Also complaining that TERFS are ok with a transman that has not transitioned swimming with women purely because they are such bigots that they don't see him as a man! Also it's full of people being banned for "transphobic rhetoric" after making reasonable points. Also the sheer irony of a TRA saying "your body is your body and that is it!"

Amid protests, Penn swimmer Lia Thomas becomes first known transgender athlete to win Division I national championship

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33529775/amid-protests-pennsylvania-swimmer-lia-thomas-becomes-first-known-transgender-athlete-win-division-national-championship I know a lot of people think this is unfair but she is following the guidelines set by the NCAA and has the right to...

www.resetera.com

 

[nothanksbabes]

It is impossible to be "born in the wrong body". You literally *are* your body.

I really dislike my body, quite intensely, as do many women given the entire industry built around our self-loathing, but why should my outside match how I feel inside, and why would anyone else be expected to participate in my self-image? If I threaten to kill myself, should I be given a new set of bits to "affirm" me?

I don't doubt some trans people have debilitating dysphoria and feel like they are "in the wrong body". I also don't doubt some schizophrenics genuinely believe God is talking to them, but just because a belief is sincerely held doesn't make it correct.

 

[Vanelope]

I’ve recently seen a job I would like to apply for, a gynae assistant but I’m actually too scared to write anything about wanting to help WOMEN in case I’m deemed as not inclusive enough. Should I just write ‘females’ even though I hate using it as a noun?! At least I know it would only be women there, as men don’t actually have gynae issues (despite some thinking they do )

I think writing women would be ok - because transwomen insist they are women so you are being inclusive and trans men don’t make as much of a fuss - apart from Freddie.

 

[judgejohndeed]

If you think you’re in the wrong body you’re very obviously mentally ill. I still think you’re mentally ill if you’re an adult, but I don’t care what consenting adults do to their bodies - how anyone can defend any of this balls on children though I will never understand. It makes me immediately suspicious to be honest.

 

[smellyfootballboots]

No one seems able to answer this. It was asked several times on the JKR thread as it was invaded by a couple of possible TRA’s. Their answer is that it’s fine for women to be used as collateral so long as TIMs can feel safe by using the women’s toilet because that’s all ‘genuine’ trans women want. So how do we tell the difference between ‘genuine’ TW and one’s who are putting a wig on or just calling themselves women to access women’s spaces? You can’t and so the argument just goes round and round in circles.

It is actually a very simple, black and white conversation.

Women should not have to make space for males in our spaces. Born male - use the men's. Born female - use the women's. No, further discussion to be had.

There are very, very, few true transsexuals - these people require empathy, yes; but given the gender horror show exploiting them these people now must be forced to use the male facilities. It must become law once again.

Single sex spaces were given to women because men murder, grape and assault us any change they get. 99% of all sexual assaults are committed by men. 92% of the victims are women. Do these men or anyone in this nefarious cult EVER stop to consider women? Absolutely not. We cannot afford to be erased as a sex class.

 

[petitspois]

Exactly!! women have XX sex chromosomes and men have XY. Yes, there are a few genetic disorders but the numbers are tiny.

Get the f-ing men out of our sports, prisons, shelters and toilets.

 

[FrannyGallops]

It is actually a very simple, black and white conversation.

Women should not have to make space for males in our spaces. Born male - use the men's. Born female - use the women's. No, further discussion to be had.

There are very, very, few true transsexuals - these people require empathy, yes; but given the gender horror show exploiting them these people now must be forced to use the male facilities. It must become law once again.

Single sex spaces were given to women because men murder, grape and assault us any change they get. 99% of all sexual assaults are committed by men. 92% of the victims are women. Do these men or anyone in this nefarious cult EVER stop to consider women? Absolutely not. We cannot afford to be erased as a sex class.

Oh, I completely agree but trying to say any of that to a TRA is like banging your head against a brick wall and ends with being called ‘bigot’ which apparently trumps any logical argument.

 

[smellyfootballboots]

It's the Observer (Guardian's sunday paper) where there's a GC editor (Sonia Sodha). Observer has managed to publish much fairer articles, it would be good if we could see something like this in the Guardian proper too.

I'm sure when I clicked on it on my phone it was the Guardian? No matter, at least it is being reported on and hopefully reaching a different demographic.

Oh, I completely agree but trying to say any of that to a TRA is like banging your head against a brick wall and ends with being called ‘bigot’ which apparently trumps any logical argument.

I don't argue with them, I just speak facts. They aren't worth arguing because they have no actual argument!

 

[Vanelope]

Times lead with Orban railing against gender issues for elections. Leads to TRAs calling us all right wing bigots. This issue is aligning me with many people I disagree profoundly with on other things, people who are right wing, racist and intolerant. And they are often misogynistic. But they know what women are - so they can oppress them - and call out the gender issue. Why can’t the left see how this is oppressing women’s rights?

Edited because it’s Orban and also that he is lumping LGB in with T - which is obviously wrong.

 

[Falkor]

Who’s interests would it be in to permanently sterilise a cohort of autistic teenagers who most probably would grow up to be gay?

(Spoiler alert: Right-wing eugenicists, that’s who.)

This is not a civil rights movement. For one thing, at no point in history have the police and establishment been on the side of any left-wing grassroots protest movement. That’s how I know the trans rights lobby is a right-wing shill. It amazes me that more people don’t see this, especially the Left.

And who might be interested in delaying puberty if it results in a child reaching the age of consent (16 in the UK) with the physical body of a much younger child?

 

[maytoseptember]

I think you're looking at it the wrong way round. Over the last decade, think how much has changed in terms of awareness and knowledge of gender identity, LGBTQIA+ etc issues which ten years ago, kids would have had no idea about. They would have gone on to become very unhappy adults who would / may look to transition later in life, some of which may go on to suicide. Now however, there's a lot more awareness and understanding amongst the general public, so young people are presenting much earlier in life.

Oh sure, it’s just that.

Scores of kids, mostly girls, identifying as trans simply because awareness of trans issues is so much greater. Isn’t it great that they understand themselves as trans, instead of being forced to live in their wrongly sexed bodies?

Or….

 

[Pawpaw365]

Th

Oh sure, it’s just that.

Scores of kids, mostly girls, identifying as trans simply because awareness of trans issues is so much greater. Isn’t it great that they understand themselves as trans, instead of being forced to live in their wrongly sexed bodies?

Or….

View attachment 1140003

Unfortunately this thread shockingly reeks of transphobia. Some of the views on this page are deplorable. I thought this was a place for sharing opinions but to my mistake, I didn’t quite get the context of this thread.

delaying puberty is imperative for those with gender identity issues. Those that go through puberty for the ‘wrong’ gender experience immense dysphoria.

as for ‘men born men should use men’s bathrooms’ and vice versa as quoted further up this page - wow. I hope none of you on this thread ever experience the loss of a relative from gender identity issues as a consequence of these ignorant views.

(also to add, quoting someone else’s opinion does not add to your argument at all.)

 

[maytoseptember]

Added more.

Quoting someone else’s argument isn’t good enough? How about you argue better than shouting “transphobia”?

I don’t care if you think I’m transphobic. No one here does. I care about kids mutilating and sterilising themselves and being celebrated for it.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Since when does quoting someone else's opinion not add to your argument? I guess literally all academic scholarship should get in the bin then

 

[SILKWORM]

In terms of the increase in 'trans kids' (and this extends to trans people in general) I suppose a factor is also that what it means to be trans has changed -- the bar is so low for what it is to be trans.

I could ID right this second as non-binary, and I would be considered trans.

 

[weeweegie]

Th

Unfortunately this thread reeks of transphobia. Quoting someone else’s opinion does not add to your argument at all.

As we have said time and time again here, rather than discussing the point that @maytoseptember makes, you have just resorted to the ‘this is transphobia’ mantra. She may have quoted someone else but these are the points she’s making. You may not agree but why not make your points about why you don’t agree rather than just crying transphobia? In particular point 3 of that post. How can a child possibly know what being the opposite is like if not for stereotypes?

 

[Pawpaw365]

I don't think I am. Most frightening for me is the huge increase in young girls being referred.

Putting a gender non-conforming child on puberty blockers is an irreversible medical intervention and the current UK processes before a child is given those blockers are insufficient to prevent harm imo.

Puberty blockers

Research and history of the use of puberty blockers in the UK, Keira Bell's case at the High Court and the Cass Review.

www.transgendertrend.com

Honestly I don't believe any NHS Child and Adolescent mental health services are sufficient at the moment. For any child (let alone those experiencing gender dysphoria). This is a Lancet article from pre Covid, and I shudder to think how much worse it has become in the interim period.

Redirecting

doi.org

It is not at all irreversible as this article states. It pauses puberty and if they change their mind, can stop the blockers and puberty will resume. What about that is irreversible?

As we have said time and time again here, rather than discussing the point that @maytoseptember, you have just resorted to the ‘this is transphobia’ mantra. She may have quoted someone else but these are the points she’s making. You may not agree but why not make your points about why you don’t agree rather than just crying transphobia? In particular point 3 of that post. How can a child possibly know what being the opposite is like if not for stereotypes?

I actually commented on this thread thinking it was a balanced discussion. I read a bit further and then ‘screamed transphobia’ because it is.

that argument is like saying, how can you know you’re straight if you’ve never been with someone of the same sex? How can you know you’re female if you’ve never been a male?

 

[Vanelope]

Th

Unfortunately this thread shockingly reeks of transphobia. Some of the views on this page are deplorable. I thought this was a place for sharing opinions but to my mistake, I didn’t quite get the context of this thread.

delaying puberty is imperative for those with gender identity issues. Those that go through puberty for the ‘wrong’ gender experience immense dysphoria.

as for ‘men born men should use men’s bathrooms’ and vice versa as quoted further up this page - wow. I hope none of you on this thread ever experience the loss of a relative from gender identity issues as a consequence of these ignorant views.

(also to add, quoting someone else’s opinion does not add to your argument at all.)

1 delaying puberty is not a thing. It irrevocably changes a person’s body and brain and that is not something to do to a child who is confused.
2 name calling is childish and no one here cares about that
3 ignorance is trying to make other people believe a fiction and shouting names when they refuse.