Gender Discussion #17

[Milliemoo99]

My head hurts at times.

we have started watching Handmade, the C4 woodwork show on Thursday evenings. one of the contestants is Misti. Photo and bio below....

Britain’s Best Woodworker Misti Channel 4
Job: Sculptor

From: Ludlow

Misti worked for over 30 years as a high end, interior designer working in mansions and stately homes. A few years ago, she decided to leave it all behind and now works out of her woodland workshop, sculpting from stone and wood. Misti says her strength in the competition will be her eye for design and her knowledge of wood and what it can do.

Misti also has told us how whilst making her ''dolls house/minature house last week, how she was inspired by the fort her Dad gave her when she was a child. Trouble is I know nothing at all about Misti, she might be a lovely lady who has an unfortunate medical problem in that she looks male and has a male voice.

But what am I meant to make of the Fort she was given as a child? Was her dad just an incredibly free thinking spirit that gave his daughter a fort to encourage her to think about playing with non gendered toys by giving her a traditionally male toy as a present?

What am I meant to think of a presumably trans man that is asking to be seen as a woman, doing a traditionally male craft?

Is this something to celebrate, a way of making woodworking more appealing to women? A way of encouraging more women to become carpenters? Is woodworking a gendered trade? Or are there just as many women carpenters as men? As my feeling is that there are more male carpenters than female!

 

[petitspois]

Before reading this thread and more widely, I used to think gender dysphoria was a genuine condition, albeit far more rare than people claim. I now think it's all bollocks and it's just men trying to undermine/take over women, a place for people who have issues and those that have nefarious intent.

 

[GladiatorReady]

I do think it's a legit condition, the same way that body dysmorphia is a genuine condition and that a small percentage of people with GD would need to transition to ease the symptoms if therapy didn't help. And nothing pre-18 years old as they need a chance to live and discover who they are outside of growing up in the confines of a (possibly homophobic or very gender-role strict) family.

It's an absolutely tiny percentage of the population though.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I think gender dysphoria is a legitimate condition. I have two colleagues who are fully transitioned trans women and they have paid thousands to have all the surgeries, and I don't think anyone does that for the fun of it. This is at the crux of the problem for me, though. Being trans used to mean someone who sought out and wanted to medically transition, now it just means anyone who feels like it, and that feeling is being used as the basis for policy and possibly law in the future. I personally simply do not believe that people who don't experience dysphoria are trans, and I don't believe people who don't seek medical transition are trans either. It's interesting in survey work in this area that the general population also seems to think 'trans' means people who have transitioned because the second that term is defined as e.g. 'in tact males' then general support is very low. I saw over the weekend a survey that showed only 1 in 20 women support in tact males using female private spaces for example. It's very sneaky that they've tried to push the boundary of what it means to be 'trans' and then use support for the old definition as support for the new, it simply isn't there.

 

[emmer_moans]

Before reading this thread and more widely, I used to think gender dysphoria was a genuine condition, albeit far more rare than people claim. I now think it's all bollocks and it's just men trying to undermine/take over women, a place for people who have issues and those that have nefarious intent.

I agree mostly. I do however think gender dysphoria is a real issue for a minute percent where they are actually distressed but they aren't the ones leading this gender ideology cult. The cult is being led mostly by men who want immunity from criticism and also permission to trounce all over women and women's rights, and by impresionable teens who want so hard to be special, noticed and pandered to. We spent so long trying to get mental health conditions taken seriously but in the space of 5 years awareness has gone too far the other way, people using it as get out from responsibility, accountability, using it for personal gain, praise, excuses etc meanwhile those actually suffering are not heard or helped because of the noise and demand being created by those being swept up in the ideology. I almost just used the word hysteria to describe but that is a word rooted in misogyny, but what I am trying to say is we are experiencing a time of mass 'gendersteria' fuelled by social media.

 

[HockyRorror]

I agree mostly. I do however think gender dysphoria is a real issue for a minute percent where they are actually distressed but they aren't the ones leading this gender ideology cult. The cult is being led mostly by men who want immunity from criticism and also permission to trounce all over women and women's rights, and by impresionable teens who want so hard to be special, noticed and pandered to. We spent so long trying to get mental health conditions taken seriously but in the space of 5 years awareness has gone too far the other way, people using it as get out from responsibility, accountability, using it for personal gain, praise, excuses etc meanwhile those actually suffering are not heard or helped because of the noise and demand being created by those being swept up in the ideology. I almost just used the word hysteria to describe but that is a word rooted in misogyny, but what I am trying to say is we are experiencing a time of mass 'gendersteria' fuelled by social media.

Agree, and when the general public opinion tide turns against mental health, like it will TRAs, because people are sick of hearing loudmouths use it to their advantage, the ones who will suffer are the ones who suffer with mental health issues, and the people that do have gender dysphoria and have full surgery. The rest? They’ll remove their ailments from Twitter and swap the dresses for suits and go on their merry way as though the “blip” never happened…

 

[GladiatorReady]

I think gender dysphoria is a legitimate condition. I have two colleagues who are fully transitioned trans women and they have paid thousands to have all the surgeries, and I don't think anyone does that for the fun of it. This is at the crux of the problem for me, though. Being trans used to mean someone who sought out and wanted to medically transition, now it just means anyone who feels like it, and that feeling is being used as the basis for policy and possibly law in the future. I personally simply do not believe that people who don't experience dysphoria are trans, and I don't believe people who don't seek medical transition are trans either. It's interesting in survey work in this area that the general population also seems to think 'trans' means people who have transitioned because the second that term is defined as e.g. 'in tact males' then general support is very low. I saw over the weekend a survey that showed only 1 in 20 women support in tact males using female private spaces for example. It's very sneaky that they've tried to push the boundary of what it means to be 'trans' and then use support for the old definition as support for the new, it simply isn't there.

Yup, when you talk about trans women - people are going to imagine Hayley Cropper, or the character from OITNB and wonder why you're being so hateful towards them - they're not going to imagine somebody like Jessica Yaniv or Karen White.

 

[emm]

I do think it's a legit condition, the same way that body dysmorphia is a genuine condition and that a small percentage of people with GD would need to transition to ease the symptoms if therapy didn't help. And nothing pre-18 years old as they need a chance to live and discover who they are outside of growing up in the confines of a (possibly homophobic or very gender-role strict) family.

It's an absolutely tiny percentage of the population though.

I agree, the thing is with body dysmorphia/anorexia etc no one is encouraging people to chaneg themselves so they look different, they are encouraged to get psychological help as a first option

 

[appleskin]

I do wonder what Stonewall really want out of this, is it really policy change or tit stirring to play victim to line their pockets, that Nolan podcast definitely helped towards donations to them and Mermaids.

As some trans women (that fully transitioned) that are chatty on SM do not feel that SW speaks for them.

This is just one recent thread I've seen that TRAs are not helping them



If it wasn't the whole self ID thing in Scotland I would never ever have given any thought about trans women in womens spaces but now I'm gonna wonder if they are grand, or if they are gonna be like shitloaf or be triggered by a misinterpreted facial expression from me

 

[SqualorVictoria]

This is absolutely spot on. How can so called lefties not see that gender ideology is an ultra capitalist movement?

 

[emm]

This is absolutely spot on. How can so called lefties not see that gender ideology is an ultra capitalist movement?

Jesus, imagine being a non native speaker (as loads of retail staff are) and being complained at about this

 

[SqualorVictoria]

How unreasonable do you have to be to insist retail staff stop using pleasantries like sir or madam just because of you and your delusions!

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Maybe it's Monday morning blues but I'm feeling quite disheartened to be honest. It feels like the net of compulsion is closing in when you have workplaces preaching wokery and individuals reporting women on twitter for raising concerns. To the point that I regret my post a few up simply for reposting Glinn*er incase that gets reported by individuals. It exasperates me that some individual can go after several people for tweets that aren't actually hateful, and gets taken seriously, yet women who report rape threats, doxx threats etc get told things like "not to use Twitter then" and such. This society actively punishes women and panders to men. I'm sick of it.

If you can, I do recommend coming to a GC meet like Posie's yesterday. It certainly boosts my morale.

 

[GladiatorReady]

And for people of a certain age, being called Sir and Ma'am is important to them... but who cares about older people

 

[emm]

If you can, I do recommend coming to a GC meet like Posie's yesterday. It certainly boosts my morale.

how did you find out about it? I would have gone if i knew

 

[SqualorVictoria]

And for people of a certain age, being called Sir and Ma'am is important to them... but who cares about older people

Someone suggested they use 'friend' instead. Oh duck off

 

[emmer_moans]

This is absolutely spot on. How can so called lefties not see that gender ideology is an ultra capitalist movement?

“Boutique identities”

Spot on. “IT’S MA’AM” roared the trans identified male to the shopkeeper.

 

[Gamu]

Did anyone notice on the unpopular opinion thread a good number of tattlers being TERFY? Also rejecting pronouns

My friend works in a really old fashioned department store in London and she has been told that she has to say " this customer" rather than " this lady/gentleman" she said it really is a very elderly clientele and it seems wrong not to use age old terms that are courteous

 

[SqualorVictoria]

That's awful. Elderly people come from a different generation where manners are key. I'd also worry that some elderly people might feel invisible so to be referred to as something as impersonal as 'this customer' is not nice. It really is mind boggling that a minority of mentally ill men in dresses have so much sway

 

[GladiatorReady]

It also reminds me of when ContraPoints got temporarily cancelled for saying that they hated people asking for their pronouns because they want to be seen as a woman.

Someone could easily say that being referred to as a gender neutral term by a shop assistant was transphobic because they 'didn't want to refer to me as a woman/man'.